Practicing my photography but venue tog had a moan at me :(

Just because I had a DSLR does not make me any different to joe public with their P&S ! And there were plenty of those there, stood quite near to me in fact, who did not get the same treatment!
Click to expand...

I read a thread once where the tog had been denied access to an event because his DSLR camera had a "removable lens" and was therefore classed as professional equipment. meaning that someone with a 50mm Prime wouldn't be allowed, but someone with a bridge cam capable of 18x zoom is perfectly welcome.
It's a bit silly. everyone should be allowed to take personal pics.
 
You get this all the time though. My pub recently held an informal music afternoon and I was asked to take photo's of the bands etc.

Quite a few people turned up with all sorts of cameras, including DSLR's, in fact I had a really good chat with a 40D user wondering what lens to get next. I let him have a play with a couple of mine as tasters. As always, nice friendly atmosphere, try not to get in the way of people with the point and shoots or with the guy with the camcorder.

I think it was one of the fathers of one of the band member, but he had a Nikon with a flashgun on top, but seemed to take exception to me, constantly walking/standing in front of me, shoved/bumped me at one point, really rude. He was the bands official photographer and was there to get the best pictures.

A couple of my friends heard the conversation and saw his tactics and it was all I could do to stop them pouring beer over him and his camera, but he suddenly found himself with a crowd of 3 or 4 people standing in front of him all the time :D Childish but very funny.

At the time I just thought it really weird behaviour. Plenty of room for everyone.
 
barneyrubble said:
Sorry but it's not. Personal photography is either allowed or not. Now which was it? No-one here knows. The kit you have is completely irrelevant, it's the purpose of the end product that will cause the problem.

So to be honest this is yet another irrelevant argument that will get nobody anywhere.
Click to expand...


This is incorrect, at the o2 arena "professional cameras" are not permitted, small point and shoots are.
 
Naboo32 said:
I think that prima donna behaviour such as the OP described is only going to precipitate the end of the 'professional photographer' as we know it..
Click to expand...

As indicated earlier.. the pro tog should not say anything.. no photographer should tell another photographer they cant take pictures... if there was a problem the pro tog should get the organisors to sort it..
 
A similar thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I knew the daughter of the event organiser, who had said I was welcome, only to be approached on the day by another photogropher who informed me that he had exclusive rights. When this was confirmed by the owner, I left the event. I found this very embarrasing and it created an awkward moment. To avoid something similar occurring, I now always contact the organiser of an event before I attend. To date, I have not returned to the original venue - probably due to embarrassment.
 
AliB said:
It does not matter what her shots were like, if she has an exclusive contract with the venue then you should not have been there.

You often find that events have their own "exclusive" tog, contracts are in place to make sure of it and it it often a condition of entry that you are not to take pics. (I remember there was a dog show with the same question on here last year)

Sorry, but if she has such a contract she is perfectly entitled to ask you to leave.
Click to expand...

so i expect she went round every ring and asked everyone with both a point and shoot and a phone camera taking pics of their friends and family not to do it anyway.......... i dont think so and i would have done the same as yourself natalie and kept shooting......
 
Arkady said:
Jeez...you're all so nice...
I'd have kicked her in the fanny and stamped on her lenses...
Click to expand...

Chillimonster said:
Coffee..... Keyboard......

PMSL :lol: :D
Click to expand...

i have a suspicion that the right honorable Arkady may be speaking American not the Queens own English as that 'F' word has a completely different meaning.
 
the comment on "It should be expected" made me think ( and that doesnt happen often)..... if someone goes to an event and expects to be pulled up by the official tog...... then surely the same thing applies to the tog. they shouldnt moan cos its to be expected.?

I was at a show last month, and after the fact i discovered there where only 2 togs allowed............ hmmmmm two from different companies selling on site.......... funny thing is that there were two of us ( my other half has finally been persuaded to pic up my second camera) we managed to get shots at dressage, show jumping and XC......... and not once did we see anyone that faintly resembled a pro tog........... now would i have stopped shooting if I had? not a chance!
 
Natalie, the pro tog has probably had people before shooting as you were but then selling thier pics, thats why she was concerned, it happens a lot at events.
We have had people handing out cards with website addresses etc, the problem is she may well be paying for the "privilage?" of being the official tog (possibly a lot), she has to make a living and could even loose money if others undercut her, when money is involved people tend to get uptight.
I think you handled it very well.
 
Freester said:
i have a suspicion that the right honorable Arkady may be speaking American not the Queens own English as that 'F' word has a completely different meaning.
Click to expand...

Nope...:D

...and I know the difference...
 
Freester said:
i have a suspicion that the right honorable Arkady may be speaking American not the Queens own English as that 'F' word has a completely different meaning.
Click to expand...

Yeagh I wondered then thought it might be a regionalised thing... shouldnt have passed the filter IMHO.

But then again theres a word I wont even write thats used a lot down -souf.. even on telly., but is even worse than the f word IMHO ... thats reginalised..
 
KIPAX said:
Do you know what might happen if you stand outside an army base taking pics?

Do you know what might happen if you hide in the bushes taking pics of children in the park?

There are many more examples of situations that dont have any signs or written rules.. but unless your very nieve then you surely know whats what.
Click to expand...


But these examples arent relevant to the original post at all are they?
I would have continued taking pictures if they were not for commercial use.
In every walk of life ( or business) there is competition, most of it unfair and impinges on ones own business.
She just sounded like a bully to me!

Allan
 
allanm said:
But these examples arent relevant to the original post at all are they?
Click to expand...

My point (again :) ) .. surely the OP knew this would happen just like you would with other situations. Would you go shooting outside an army camp then start a thread on here complaining about the consequences ?

BTW thats not me saying its right.. like a lot of things in this world that i dont agree with or I dont think is right.. I do however know thats the way of the world :)
 
swanseamale47 said:
Natalie, the pro tog has probably had people before shooting as you were but then selling thier pics, thats why she was concerned, it happens a lot at events.
We have had people handing out cards with website addresses etc, the problem is she may well be paying for the "privilage?" of being the official tog (possibly a lot), she has to make a living and could even loose money if others undercut her, when money is involved people tend to get uptight.
I think you handled it very well.
Click to expand...

All valid points but none that entitle the pro tell tell a photographer that they can't take photos, only that they are not allowed to sell any.
 
KIPAX said:
My point (again :) ) .. surely the OP knew this would happen just like you would with other situations. Would you go shooting outside an army camp then start a thread on here complaining about the consequences ?

BTW thats not me saying its right.. like a lot of things in this world that i dont agree with or I dont think is right.. I do however know thats the way of the world :)
Click to expand...

I don't think you can make that comparison - one is a public event, the other is a classified installation with a recognised security threat posed against it and its occupants...
 
Arkady said:
I don't think you can make that comparison - one is a public event, the other is a classified installation with a recognised security threat posed against it and its occupants...
Click to expand...


it was an example.. thats all.. jeeze :) I did make another example of a public place in my OP and the outcome..
 
OK but it wasn't really appropriate was it - maybe some other event that had controlled access?

I think that any 'Pro' phot who gets bent out of shape about other photographers being present at a gig - any gig, is basically insecure about the quality of their work...
If you're good enough, you have no reason to worry - and if not, move over for the next guy...
 
Arkady said:
I think that any 'Pro' phot who gets bent out of shape about other photographers being present at a gig - any gig, is basically insecure about the quality of their work...
Click to expand...

poppycock!

an event photographer who has paid to be at an event will always be worried about another tog turning up and taking equally as good pictures then undercutting... i am amazed you cant understand that to be honest.. why would you turn it into an insult towards the event tog... amazing...
 
Did I? I wasn't aware that I was...and if I did, so what?
You're acting as if you have a God-Given right to exclude other photographers from events - you don't...
It's called competition - photography is a highly competitive market and only the good survive...
As long as the other photographer isn't trying to represent themselves as a viable alternative to the official Tog, it's all good clean fun...

Get over yourselves, guys...If your work is good enough then the clients will come - if not, well get better or find another line of work. Or you will be edged out by the competition...

Haven't you heard there's a recession on? The only way to survive is to remain at the top of your game, be competitive in terms of pricing and marketing and stay ahead of the next guy, not to sit back and rely on being the 'official tog' at an event - there's no such thing - clients will always go to the lowest priced tog with the best images...
 
Arkady said:
As long as the other photographer isn't trying to represent themselves as a viable alternative to the official Tog, it's all good clean fun...
Click to expand...

I think that's the only ones anyone is objecting to, those that actively market and sell their shots but can price out very low as they don't have any of the normal overheads such as "rights" fee, tax, ni, PLI, etc.
 
Arkady said:
You're acting as if you have a God-Given right to exclude other photographers from events - you don't...
It's called competition - photography is a highly competitive market and only the good survive......
Click to expand...

I hope your talking to someone else and not me.. I dont actualy do more than one or maybe two events a year of my own and dont exclude anyone... last one i did we handed everyone that came a sheet saying they could photograph but not for distribution.

I am working on an event all this weekend and three days next week.. but I get paid per day so have no worries about other togs as I aint selling.. I find thats the best way to do it.

I think your post should maybe be aimed at the lady at the event who doesnt seem to be on here..

so calm down :)
 
Stuff it, crack on with the togging.

If she/he gets REALLY funny about it, ask why/ask for proof/speak to an organiser.
 
KIPAX said:
last one i did we handed everyone that came a sheet saying they could photograph but not for distribution.
Click to expand...

And what right do you have to do this - and how would you enforce it...?

Sorry, but yes it was aimed at you and anyone else who thinks they have a right to exclude anyone from taking photos at a public event for any purpose they see fit...
 
fabs said:
All valid points but none that entitle the pro tell tell a photographer that they can't take photos, only that they are not allowed to sell any.
Click to expand...

I argree with you Fabs, I'm mearly pointing out a possible reason the OP was approached.
 
Arkady said:
And what right do you have to do this - and how would you enforce it...?

Sorry, but yes it was aimed at you and anyone else who thinks they have a right to exclude anyone from taking photos at a public event for any purpose they see fit...
Click to expand...

But this wasnt a public event was it. It was an event on private land, for which this woman was the exclusive tog.
 
Marcel said:
But this wasnt a public event was it. It was an event on private land, for which this woman was the exclusive tog.
Click to expand...

To which the public had access...sorry but I think to try and enforce a 'closed-shop' paints us all in a most unpleasant light...if you're good enough you have no cause to worry...
 
If the public are allowed into an event holding a DSLR, then the organisers are clearly not enforcing any agreed 'policy' or 'arrangement', so the official photographer should take it up with the organisers for next time.

Otherwise the sport of tog baiting is going to continue.

A clear policy which is enforced should be part of the contract or you should obviously consider what it means in practice and whether it has any value.

Graham
 
Arkady said:
Sorry, but yes it was aimed at you and anyone else who thinks they have a right to exclude anyone from taking photos at a public event for any purpose they see fit...
Click to expand...

I was with you until the any purpose they see fit part.

If you've paid for the photographic and distribution rights for an event I think you've every right to ask the organisers to prevent other pro's (full or part time) taking photographs for sale.

Beyond that however, if it's a free for all and you happen to be the "official/regular/handiest" tog then you're absolutely right, it's up to you to make sure you're putting out what your potential customers want.

Joe Public taking for his own use? No problem at all.
 
KIPAX said:
My point (again :) ) .. surely the OP knew this would happen...
Click to expand...

Well obviously not...

blue max said:
If the public are allowed into an event holding a DSLR, then the organisers are clearly not enforcing any agreed 'policy' or 'arrangement', so the official photographer should take it up with the organisers for next time.

Otherwise the sport of tog baiting is going to continue.

A clear policy which is enforced should be part of the contract or you should obviously consider what it means in practice and whether it has any value.

Graham
Click to expand...

:agree:
 
dod said:
I was with you until the any purpose they see fit part.

If you've paid for the photographic and distribution rights for an event I think you've every right to ask the organisers to prevent other pro's (full or part time) taking photographs for sale.

Beyond that however, if it's a free for all and you happen to be the "official/regular/handiest" tog then you're absolutely right, it's up to you to make sure you're putting out what your potential customers want.

Joe Public taking for his own use? No problem at all.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but in practice it's nigh impossible to enforce...
 
Arkady said:
I hear you, but in practice it's nigh impossible to enforce...
Click to expand...

True, what you ask for and what you get are two different things ;)
 
Your arguements are full of flaws arkady. You say if you are good enough they will buy off you but then counter this by saying they will always buy off the cheapest, so what is it best or cheapest or do you have to be the best and the cheapest, what a load of rubbish.

If I pay a concession to photograph an event I expect to have exclusivity and I get it too.
 
artona said:
Your arguements are full of flaws arkady. You say if you are good enough they will buy off you but then counter this by saying they will always buy off the cheapest, so what is it best or cheapest or do you have to be the best and the cheapest, what a load of rubbish.

If I pay a concession to photograph an event I expect to have exclusivity and I get it too.
Click to expand...

To be fair if you've got two equally good shots it is normally always the cheaper one which will sell. That might be influenced however by your reputation, the service you give, your personality, your reliability etc etc.

With the qualification I posted above we really have to make sure we're putting out the best quality we're capable of, at the best price we can. We've got to accept we won't always have exclusivity. Why should we, at one time we were the person at the ringside wanting to get a breakthrough.
 
Marcel said:
But this wasnt a public event was it. It was an event on private land, for which this woman was the exclusive tog.
Click to expand...

Marcel, It was not on private land at all, but a public park !!

Originally Posted by KIPAX
My point (again ) .. surely the OP knew this would happen...
Click to expand...

Well i had an incling when she was glaring at me through the sun (while she was shooing into it :) ) but i have been to many an event with the my DSLR to practice and never had a problem at all !!
I have been working with a couple of pro's recently and yes, we notice people attended with DSLR's but thats something that cant be avoided , some people spend £300 on a P&S and others spend £400 on a DSLR ! ( and before you say it, i dont work in the area of the county i was visiting and she wouldnt have known me from adam)
 
I used to go to Equestrian events to practice. Never had any hassle. Most of the events I've been too, they announce over the tannoy who the official photographer is and state where the togs tent is etc. In fact, at one event, the photographer didn't turn up and quite a few people asked if I was the official photographer. I said no, some did ask me to take some shots of them but I declined.

If it was me, I'd just have ignored her and carried on clicking away. Sounds like she's got an inferiority complex. :lol:

In fact, if it's not raining tomorrow, I'm going to a non equestrian event and one of the members on here is the official photographer. If she sees me, and approaches me I'll assure her I'm not stealing any revenue from her potential sales.:lol:

Lisa x
 
wow, dozens of views, all conflicting. It's getting to be like a real forum on here.

It's my understanding this was held in a public park. If entry was free and no terms and conditions were stipulated at the entrance then ANY tog can shoot till their hearts content. Only the land-owner (council in most probs) can object and even then no offence of trespass is committed unless the tog refuses to leave when requested by a council official.
Very few clubs/organizations will give a tog an exclusive contract to shoot. Equestrian togs are 2-a-penny so why should they. The exception would be to events where the public are required to pay for entry or the tog has paid for a trade stand but even then they are normally unwilling to submit themselves to any contract on their part.
At the events I do, there are always amateur togs with Nikon/Canon jewelry hung around their neck and i wouldn't want to spoil their enjoyment of the day. If i caught anyone handing out business cards then I would be justified in "having a word" with them.

If you explained that you weren't intending to sell then after that I would have told her to concentrate on her business and keep her nose out of yours.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top