PPI claim dates

myotis

Suspended / Banned
Messages
4,503
Name
Graham
Edit My Images
No
Just on the off chance some one knows the answer to this.

I have just had my claim for PPI refund turned down because we paid off the mortgage and cancelled the PPI in July 2007.

The reason being that under FCA rules the mortgage contract had to have been active "after" 6th April 2008, which ours obviously wasn't.

Can anyone confirm that this is being correctly applied.

Thanks,

Graham
 
Just curious, when you took out the mortgage did you ask for payment protection insurance, incase you had an illness or lost job ect? If not how did they add the PPI on without you knowing, it must have been an EXTRA? Genuine question not prying just curious.
 
Just curious, when you took out the mortgage did you ask for payment protection insurance, incase you had an illness or lost job ect? If not how did they add the PPI on without you knowing, it must have been an EXTRA? Genuine question not prying just curious.

I did know I could refuse to take it out but it was presented as something that you were expected to take out and I was misled about the level of protection it offered ie it only covered repayments for a limited period of time, rather than the long term protection I thought it offered.

Much later when I looked at it in more detail, it didn't offer much more than my existing arrangements e.g duration of being paid a salary when off sick (6 months full salary plus 6 months half salary), redundancy payments and the savings we had to continue to make payments if I was sacked. My wife was also working, and our savings were enough for a few years worth of repayments. I took it out thinking about some potentially serious long term sickness that prevented me working, but it didn't actually cover that, even though I mentioned this as the reason for taking it out. But savings, sickness pay and redundancy pay, was not discussed at the time of the remortgage, it was just sold as a complete peace of mind protection.

However, in addition to the claim being refused on the date basis, they have also refused it on the basis that my sick pay, redundancy and savings would have been insufficient to have covered the payments, so I needed the PPI and therefore not mis-sold it, BUT these things were not discussed when I took out the PPI, only asked about when filling out the current claim on the PPI being mis-sold.

So the basis of my claim was that I didn't need PPI, as I already had good provision to keep up the payments longer than the period offered by the PPI, and they are saying I did need PPI, but they have agreed they did not explain that they made a commission on selling me PPI.

However, this argument is all irrelevant, if they are properly applying the FCA cut off date, hence my question.
 
I have just had my claim for PPI refund turned down because we paid off the mortgage and cancelled the PPI in July 2007.

The reason being that under FCA rules the mortgage contract had to have been active "after" 6th April 2008, which ours obviously wasn't.
I don't think that is right. I've heard accounts of people making successful PPI claims dating back to the 1990s. I certainly don't think there is an FCA rule preventing claims on "old" loans, but to be certain why don't you call the FCA help line?

One potential problem, though, is proof of how much you paid for PPI. Do you have all the relevant paperwork? Because if not, there's no obligation for your bank to have kept the records for this long. And obviously, with the prospect of PPI claims hanging over them, they would be sensible to dispose of their records as soon as they are legally allowed to, which I believe is 6 years after the account is closed.
 
I don't think that is right. I've heard accounts of people making successful PPI claims dating back to the 1990s.

There is a statement in the FCA rules that does state that the mortgage needed to have been

"taken out on or before 31st October 2004 and still be open on 6th April 2008",

plus a lot of other explanation that I don't really follow. I will ask elsewhere, I just thought someone here might actually know. It does look like an absolute cut off, but until the rejection I had never heard about it, nor seen it mentioned in the various guidance on making a claim, until now.

Claims have been successful with limited paperwork, even if the lender no longer has any paperwork. Apparently all you need to be able to do is have sufficient evidence to confirm there was a "relationship" between you and the lender and as them to estimate the refund due. As it so happens, in our case they appear to have the records, and although we have lost most of the paperwork, we do have some of it, and we still have copies of bank statements recording all the payments. Lack of evidence (paperwork) was not cited in the reasons for rejection.
 
There is a statement in the FCA rules that does state that the mortgage needed to have been

"taken out on or before 31st October 2004 and still be open on 6th April 2008".
Says who? Not the FCA, I bet.

Here's a snip from the FCA website, fca.org.uk/ppi :
Is there a time limit on how far back I can complain about PPI?

There is no time limit on how far back you can complain about mis-selling of PPI; you can complain however long ago it was sold to you. It is worth considering that most polices were sold between 1990 and 2010, some as far back as the 1970s.

The only thing I can see that limits the time frame in which you can make a complaint is this:
We have set a deadline of 29 August 2019 to complain about PPI.

You need to refer your complaint to your provider or to the Financial Ombudsman Service on or before the 29 August 2019 deadline (by 11.59pm) or else lose your right to have your complaint assessed.

29 August 2019 is the last possible deadline for consumers to make PPI complaints, but for some consumers time will run out sooner than 29 August 2019:

* you will generally run out of time to complain about mis-selling 3 years after you received a letter from your provider warning you about it
* or 3 years after you made an insurance claim on the PPI policy that was rejected by the insurer
 
Last edited:
Says who? Not the FCA, I bet.

I did say I found reference to it in the FCA rules but linked to other elements I didn't fully follow.

"The proposed rules and guidance would only apply to PPI complaints where a claim could be made against a lender under s.140A. That means that sums must have been payable (or capable of becoming payable) under the underlying credit agreement (which the PPI covered or covers) on or after 6 April 2008 (Note 8)."

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/statements/fca-statement-payment-protection-insurance-ppi

I am claiming for this reason:

  • you were advised to buy PPI that did not suit your circumstances or needs
BUT, if that 6th April 2008 cut off date applies (as the lender believes), then there is no point because by that time we had repaid the mortgage.

I will ask the FCA.

Thanks.
 
I did say I found reference to it in the FCA rules but linked to other elements I didn't fully follow.

"The proposed rules and guidance would only apply to PPI complaints where a claim could be made against a lender under s.140A. That means that sums must have been payable (or capable of becoming payable) under the underlying credit agreement (which the PPI covered or covers) on or after 6 April 2008 (Note 8)."

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/statements/fca-statement-payment-protection-insurance-ppi

I am claiming for this reason:

  • you were advised to buy PPI that did not suit your circumstances or needs
BUT, if that 6th April 2008 cut off date applies (as the lender believes), then there is no point because by that time we had repaid the mortgage.

I will ask the FCA.

Thanks.
I don't think that's relevant in your case.

As far as i can tell, that s.140 stuff is all about cases where the complaint is about an excessive amount of commission paid. In other words, not that the PPI was fundamentally mis-sold - it might have been an appropriate product in the circumstances - but that the level of commission made it an unfair contract.

There's a good explanation of this on the Financial Ombudsman's website: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ppi/can-i-complain-about-commission.html .

But that's not why you're complaining. You are not complaining that the commission was excessive; you are complaining that the PPI did not suit your needs. As such I think the 2008 deadline is irrelevant, because that only applies to claims about excessive commission.
 
I don't think that's relevant in your case.

As far as i can tell, that s.140 stuff is all about cases where the complaint is about an excessive amount of commission paid. In other words, not that the PPI was fundamentally mis-sold - it might have been an appropriate product in the circumstances - but that the level of commission made it an unfair contract.

Thanks, but that isn't how I read it. s.140 seems to defining many aspects of Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors. and the list of reasons for changing the guidance on the FCA page seems to include other things beyond Plevin, However, I think you may be correct , as I have reread the paperwork turning down the claim, and realise that one of the ambiguities now makes more sense. The breakdown of the claim gives what looks like a final conclusion based on reviewing the dates, but the letter says that the "commission issue" wasn't reviewed because it fell outside the dates.

However, this was never part of my claim, so I am going to contest the decision.

Thanks,
Graham
 
s.140 seems to defining many aspects of Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors. and the list of reasons for changing the guidance on the FCA page seems to include other things beyond Plevin
I agree.

However I think the immediate relevance to PPI claims is that the Plevin case was brought under s.140, and s.140 only came into effect in April 2008. Any precedent set by Plevin can only apply to situations which are governed by s.140, and that imposes a cut-off date of April 2008.

As you say, s.140 covers other aspects of unfair relationships, not just the commission issue which the Plevin case was about. It might be the case that, in future, somebody else will find a different way of suing s.140 to complain about a PPI contract; but if that does happen, again it would be limited to PPI contracts which were 'live' on or after April 2008, for the same reasons.

But your claim is nothing to do with commission, nothing to do with Plevin, nothing to do with s.140, and therefore the 2008 cut-off doesn't apply.

Go for it!
 
I did know I could refuse to take it out but it was presented as something that you were expected to take out and I was misled about the level of protection it offered ie it only covered repayments for a limited period of time, rather than the long term protection I thought it offered.

Much later when I looked at it in more detail, it didn't offer much more than my existing arrangements e.g duration of being paid a salary when off sick (6 months full salary plus 6 months half salary), redundancy payments and the savings we had to continue to make payments if I was sacked. My wife was also working, and our savings were enough for a few years worth of repayments. I took it out thinking about some potentially serious long term sickness that prevented me working, but it didn't actually cover that, even though I mentioned this as the reason for taking it out. But savings, sickness pay and redundancy pay, was not discussed at the time of the remortgage, it was just sold as a complete peace of mind protection.

However, in addition to the claim being refused on the date basis, they have also refused it on the basis that my sick pay, redundancy and savings would have been insufficient to have covered the payments, so I needed the PPI and therefore not mis-sold it, BUT these things were not discussed when I took out the PPI, only asked about when filling out the current claim on the PPI being mis-sold.

So the basis of my claim was that I didn't need PPI, as I already had good provision to keep up the payments longer than the period offered by the PPI, and they are saying I did need PPI, but they have agreed they did not explain that they made a commission on selling me PPI.

However, this argument is all irrelevant, if they are properly applying the FCA cut off date, hence my question.


Much more to it than meets the eye, by the sound of your explanation you more than have a legitimate claim, I had not thought the rules for claiming were as stringent as they are.
 
Much more to it than meets the eye, by the sound of your explanation you more than have a legitimate claim, I had not thought the rules for claiming were as stringent as they are.

In most things in life, there seems to be much more than meets the eye, and the reason I haven't claimed until now was because I "knew" I was taking it out and therefore didn't think I would have a claim. But discovered there are all sorts of grounds for being mis-sold so I thought it worth giving it a go, given I had been annoyed about it at the time.

Both the form you fill in and the form you get back explaining the decision is pretty detailed and we had two phone calls from them re-asking the same questions already answered on the form. I found myself answering almost every question on the phone with "as I said on the form..." Given it was a small re-mortgage that was paid back in 6 years, its not even that much money we are talking about, but better in my hands than the lender.

Anyway, I have written back to them about it, but the decision letter is a little ambiguous, suggesting both that it is the final decision and I now have to go to the ombudsman while also suggesting I can go back to them with any concerns. So I wait and see.
 
In most things in life, there seems to be much more than meets the eye, and the reason I haven't claimed until now was because I "knew" I was taking it out and therefore didn't think I would have a claim. But discovered there are all sorts of grounds for being mis-sold so I thought it worth giving it a go, given I had been annoyed about it at the time.

Both the form you fill in and the form you get back explaining the decision is pretty detailed and we had two phone calls from them re-asking the same questions already answered on the form. I found myself answering almost every question on the phone with "as I said on the form..." Given it was a small re-mortgage that was paid back in 6 years, its not even that much money we are talking about, but better in my hands than the lender.

Anyway, I have written back to them about it, but the decision letter is a little ambiguous, suggesting both that it is the final decision and I now have to go to the ombudsman while also suggesting I can go back to them with any concerns. So I wait and see.


Hope it pans out for you! Its got me thinking.....
 
Back
Top