Poss switch from Windows to Mac

JohnMcL7 said:
It's a bit of an odd comment to say you don't need to worry about cross compatibility on a Mac because you can't change the parts, you don't need to worry about cross-compatibility on a PC either if you don't want to change parts. It's an option you have on a Windows PC if you want it whereas it's not an option at all on Apple devices. 20 years ago when there were a lot changes in the CPU and graphics card markets, upgrade cycles were shorter but you only needed to upgrade if you were wanting the top performance and you'd need to do the same with Apple hardware. Nowadays the CPU and GPU refresh cycles are much slower so even my five year old system still offers top of the line performance and isn't in need of any upgrades, when it does I'd much rather the option to upgrade the parts required than have to chuck it away and buy an entire new unnecessary system.

As for lasting far, far longer it's disappointing to see an 'IT Pro' repeating one of the most common Apple myths which isn't even remotely true. Apple support cycles are much shorter than Windows and Apple hardware is now almost impossible to upgrade and difficult and expensive to repair. Almost any component failure means the end of the system and they most certainly do fail, a system where you can replace and upgrade the individual parts is going to have a vastly better chance of lasting longer. The OP is already having to ask about storage issues before they've even bought the machine so it's not even lasted long enough to reach the starting point, similar Windows devices let you have pretty much any amount of storage and ram you want now and you can change and upgrade them as needed in the future if needed to give them a much longer lifespan. Admittedly the point is lost on me of buying svelte little machine and then having to buy all manner of docks and external storage when I can have a three year old machine the size of a Mac Mini that has performance far beyond what Apple currently offer but what do I know.
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The issue with windows and parts is that there are many many different vendors who are responsible for the hardware being compatible and the drivers working with the OS, this can cause issues even if you don't change the parts in a PC. You install a new OS and suddenly your sound card or graphics card doesn't work properly because the vendor hasn't updated their drivers.

Because the OS and hardware is all controlled by Apple you don't have these issues.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Be aware too that sometimes Apple do get it wrong too.
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Indeed they do.

As I mentioned above, the Exeter Apple Store told us they couldn't repair my wife's 2019 MacBook Pro. Their offer was to send it to the engineers but it would cost us a non-refundable £635 with no guarantee that it could be repaired. So my wife got the latest MacBook Pro and I got to take the old one home.

After a great deal of effort, it turned out to be a software / firmware problem, caused by some unholy interaction between Sequoia and the MacBook's firmware. Once I'd booted it from an external copy of Catalina, zapped and reformatted the disk, reset the firmware and prayed to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I managed to get it working properly and now it's in my "office bag", in place of the MacBook Air that used to live there.

The moral? Even Apple can get things badly wrong, and fixing their mistakes can be expensive. Windows may be a great deal less expensive in such situations because there are a lot more people around who can help you.
 
I posted separately about a new software system and lots of helpful comments from members, including on this thread which are relevant to me as I was considering moving from Windows to Mac. With all the discussion I think I may go back to film:thinking::thinking::thinking:
 
With Apple, it's like buying a car. You buy the best car you can afford and use it until you replace it. Computer parts is like upgrading the suspension or engine.

If you a car guy and want to do those things, you like tuning cars, you like to make it yours and customise it, don't buy a Ferrari, it will cost you a fortune just to replace a wing or headlight. If you want to chop and change, go get a Ford Focus RS, get it turned, get a Militeck exhaust, get a larger turbo.

(Disregarding the reliability of a Ferrari vs Ford, just the aspect of replacing parts)

I set a budget of getting a new computer, spend that, and then divide how long that cost me to run that computer. That's it's cost of ownership.

My iMac cost me (2200/12) £180 a year, and going down daily. If I get the Mac Mini for £499 (with EDU), then I only need to use it for 2 and a half years before I get my money's worth.

I think 16G of Ram will last 2.5 years, it doesn't need to last THAT long into the future if I am thinking from a value POV.


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A little my own POV on upgrading bit by bit

I am FIRMLY in the camp of I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE my computer parts camp. In fact, take that option away from me, I DO NOT WANT IT. It honestly saves me more money, I make do what I have and make it last. When I had a windows machine, every time a new graphic card gets released I get an itch to replace it, £400 every year or 18 months...for what? play games with 10 more fps? Then in between I would upgrade Mobo...which then I need to upgrade the PSU, and then CPU, now new RAM because it is now faster speed. Oh, I also need a new case too.

It ended up being something something every year, all in the name of being "up to date". Rather than with Apple, since the option or the GAS of getting the latest and greatest is now gone, I am more content. I look at. "does this do what I want?" "Yes". Then ignore new Mac releases. If you are like me, someone who just love to get the latest thing JUST BECAUSE, Apple is really good at keeping that in the lid since upgrading a new Mac every year is crazy and far too expensive and pointless. Whereas it is so much easier to spend £200 here to upgrade RAM, £500 there to upgrade graphic card 9 months apart....before you know it, I have spent nearly £1k on my computer.

Besides all the time spent trouble shooting and setting it up. Since building computers and doing my own IT support isn't a hobby of mine....i consider it a waste of time to do all that stuff.
 
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Flipping it on its head for a moment what are the downsides of W11? I hear it's got AI incorporated into it. And it's ever more voracious for your personal data. Sounds to me like it might just be a bloated, nosey version of W10.
 
Plain Nev said:
Flipping it on its head for a moment what are the downsides of W11? I hear it's got AI incorporated into it. And it's ever more voracious for your personal data. Sounds to me like it might just be a bloated, nosey version of W10.
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This here is why I'm wondering about replacing the family Winbox with a Mac Mini. I'm a Mac user so it wouldn't bother me, and Mrs R now mostly uses her iPad... so the other option is, don't replace the family Winbox with anything!
 
ChrisR said:
This here is why I'm wondering about replacing the family Winbox with a Mac Mini. I'm a Mac user so it wouldn't bother me, and Mrs R now mostly uses her iPad... so the other option is, don't replace the family Winbox with anything!
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Very true, but now it’s in your head …
 
Raymond Lin said:
.i consider it a waste of time to do all that stuff.
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We all have different ways of doing things and all are the correct things for us. ;)
 
I tend to view upgrading computers like upgrading cameras - what is it that you need that the present kit can't do? New/shiny isn't enough reason on it's own.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I tend to view upgrading computers like upgrading cameras - what is it that you need that the present kit can't do? New/shiny isn't enough reason on it's own.
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As has been said, each to their own :)
 
There's a couple of good value monitors just popped up for me, if you were looking for a mini computer + screen:

Dell 2724D £184.99 https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/del...24d/apd/210-bhtk/monitors-monitor-accessories
Gigabyte M27Q £155 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08L6XR935?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

I've had the Gigabyte since 2021, and it's a great monitor for photo and general work. I'm seriously tempted to get a second to run side-by-side. 2560 X 1440 is just about perfect for me on a 27" screen.
 
I've been a Mac user for a number of years now and can highly recommend them, even for a beginner. The hardest part would be getting used to the shortcut key changes (if you're a big shortcut user) but otherwise, you'll adjust in no time.

Yes, you'll need an adaptor (or new cable) to get a Mac Mini working with your existing Eizo, but the new M4 Mini is by far the best value for an introduction into macOS. I'd definitely bump up the RAM from the standard 16GB to whatever your budget allows, and you'll find that the M4 silicon chip will be supported until at least 2030.
 
ChrisR said:
This here is why I'm wondering about replacing the family Winbox with a Mac Mini. I'm a Mac user so it wouldn't bother me, and Mrs R now mostly uses her iPad... so the other option is, don't replace the family Winbox with anything!
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Thinking ever more about this, as the Win11 support deadline approaches later this year. The family Winbox is 12 years old, and won't run Win11. So as a Mac user myself (first was a Macintosh 512 I think!) I'm extremely interested in replacing it with a Mac Mini, maybe second hand.

However, the more I think about it, how on earth does one go about that "upgrade"? The filestore structures are so different. I guess the answer is to find all the document directories, copy them to an external HDD, and from there copy them back to the new (look dear, it's so MUCH smaller!!!!) Mac Mini?
 
ChrisR said:
However, the more I think about it, how on earth does one go about that "upgrade"?
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You may wish to investigate Carbon Copy Cloner...

bombich.com

Carbon Copy Cloner: macOS Backup Software - Bombich Software

bombich.com bombich.com

It will happily copy your entire file system (or a selection) between OS-X and Windows transparently. We've used it here for many years and so far it's never let us down. Do read the online help. It can do so much more than just cloning entire disks.
 
I would definitely suggest the handraulic approach, where you copy the files to a hard drive (a backup that's just the files themselves and not coded in some way) and then copy across to the new machine. After copying, check the files can still be opened.

I've had a bad experience upgrading and using time machine backups to transfer, and will never let the system bite me again.
 
As you have probably worked out - there are two types of users, Mac and Win, each will to a great extent extoll the virues of their chosen system. Both are correct for themselves.

To be honest - its a tool, both do the same thing if the same software is used, if you are a 'new' chaser its a bun fight as to who has the newest toys - if you are a speed freak its a bun fight as to who has the fastest, me - I have windows 10 on a pc i self build - a long line of them from dos3.1 up to win 10 - can't see the need for win 11, it does nothing i can't do now. I have been a IT service manager working with shed loads of high end stuff of both flavours with clients ranging from MOD ( must have latest tech capable of being hardened) to WH Smiths ( must have long lasting capable reliable kit no matter the age ) and others - your real concern is what do you want, an all singing all dancing lastest wizz machine or a tool to do a specific job, now define the job and decide which gives more usability and the output you want

My latest tower will last me out for speed and power etc. I don't really care what the next 'must have' is, I create 74mb raw files in my camera, my pc can use Photoshop to create .tiff files so far my biggest is 2gb from them and I can edit them in real time without waiting for it to catch up with my actions in photoshop- thats what I want it to do, so that what i specced for - the fact a newer mac or a higher spec pc will knock a few seconds off that is truly irrelevant to me. The money saved can buy me some nice wine i can enjoy while reviewing my images in a slide show :-)

Best advice I can give you is define what you ACTUALLY want to do first and what is acceptable to you from a time perspective to do that - then buy what can meet you needs.
 
Thanks for the various migration advice, folks!
 
Rincewind said:
As you have probably worked out - there are two types of users, Mac and Win...
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...there are more than that...
  • Windows users
  • Mac users
  • IOS users
  • Android users
  • Linux users
  • Users of the various other systems
  • and the various people who use any of the possible combinations of the above.
Of course, most people pick a single system and stick to it but others, like myself, fall into the last group.
 
Think of it like changing editing suite. There is the slight headache of the transition of the library etc, and then it’s just a learning curve again. Beyond that, it’s swings and roundabouts and neither is truly any better than the other, it’s purely personal preference. I was a diehard windows user, then bought a MacBook. It still confuses me at times a few years later but I can do everything I used to do in terms of editing, and if I swapped back, the windows machine wouldn’t do anything the MacBook can’t.

If we are talking gaming, then that would be a different discussion. But they’ll both run light room etc, both will output the same jpg, both upload to instagram, or connect to your printer. try not to overthink it :)
 
I have used both (and also Linux mint)

Apple Macs are beautiful machines. They just work. That's not just a well designed OS, it's that they've minimised the amount of human error that can mess things up as you have very limited ability to tinker with how they run. They are more expensive than pcs like for like I think, but if you don't really like tinkering with your pc, and having a slightly reduced choice of software, they are beautiful and sleek and you'll love them.

On past iterations with Windows I had many issues but Windows 11 on a modern computer is actually a really excellent operating system. It's quick and robust in my experience. And you'll have a lot more ability to buy a machine specc'd exactly how you want (I use www.pcspecialist.co.uk)

Personally I really disliked being 'tied' to Apple's way of doing things and I liked the flexibility windows 11 offers. And I like the wider software choices and ability to build my machine exactly as I wanted . But that's an entirely personal thing. Others will see it completely the opposite way.

Ultimately, whatever you choose I suspect you'll be happy with
 
inquisitive_chap said:
Apple Macs are beautiful machines. They just work.
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With respect, they *often* work, but when there's a problem (and problems are not unusual) then they are a challenge to fix. Mint Linux is possibly the best for working 'out of the box', and is compatible with an incredible range of hardware. Apple hardware is often designed for looks and to be made cheaply in order to maximise profits. There's a trail of issues due to poor design (Macbook keyboards failing due to dust, graphics chips overheating and failing in multiple designs, for example).

I'd consider buying a Mac mini with M series chip at this stage because they're presently very good value for the performance they offer, but would be nervous about reliability and would want to be darn sure I had backups (and I don't mean just Time Machine).
 
That's fair. I mainly meant the software 'works' as I hadn't had hardware issues but everyone has different experiences

Agree Linux Mint is superb. Have that on an older machine that kids used. Lightweight and really nice. Obviously you can't use lightroom on it unless you want to play with 'Wine'. But for darktable and gimp users it is great
 
inquisitive_chap said:
That's fair. I mainly meant the software 'works' as I hadn't had hardware issues but everyone has different experiences
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We're going back a bit now, but when I started a business I bought a Mac as my business machine. After an osx update was released I waited 6 months for the bugs to be ironed out, then upgraded. With the new os I could no longer print - the Samsung laser printer I was using was not supported, and it was just 2 years old. So, no business printing. So I tried to revert back, but time machine had also been updated and the backup was incompatible with the previous os. I had a second backup taken before updating, and could revert to that, but still lost 2 weeks worth of business email.

It's just one example, but I'm not a fanboy for Apple through experience.
 
I use all three of the main small machine operating systems regularly and have come to the conclusion that...
  • Apple's OSX suits me best for photography, simply because Preview is built into the distributions and does 95% of what I want from an image editor. I also do my accounting on OSX for historical reasons. Again for historical reasons, Our home server is a very old MacBook and if it ever goes bang, I'll just plug the drives into another Mac and carry on.
  • I find that Microsoft Windows works very well for anything and everything Internet. I'm writing this via Google Chrome on Windows 11.
  • Unix command line suits me best for many small jobs and I can move from Linux (on Windows) to the OSX terminal in a few seconds because I keep my command line scripts as generic as possible and thus no longer need to use a dedicated Unix server.
My point here is that we all have our own backgrounds in photography, computing and everything else. I think that makes it difficult to give good advice on anything in which there are numerous approaches and thus numerous alternatives.
 
ancient_mariner said:
It's just one example, but I'm not a fanboy for Apple through experience.
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I am also not a fan for the reasons I mentioned above. I now only use Win 11 and Linux Mint. But I think my point really was just that we all have different preferences and many people absolutely love their Macs. Whatever system @goinggreynow goes for should be able to handle photography needs well
 
I'm no fan-boy either. When i made the switch from Windows to Mac back in about 2009 it was for various reasons including previous considerable professional experiences with Windows, and I've been very happy with my choice since. However, should I be coming to the decision today, my choice would be much harder. In my position as a volunteer museum administrator within a large local authority I have been using Windows lap-tops, and there is no doubt that Microsoft has come on in leaps and bounds. A much tougher choice. Nowadays I'm not sure there is any clear advantage of one over t'other. My only advice would be to buy the highest spec of any system you can afford to (hopefully) give a good degree of future-proofing.
 
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