Portable Lighting Power Supply

Paulmack

Paulmack

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Has anyone ever tried to rig their own portable power supply for studio lighting?

What I am thinking about is getting an invertor, connecting it to say a car battery and generating 230v. Now I could go down the route of getting on of these

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48723&C=SO&U=strat15

Then connecting it to a fairly decent powered 12v battery with a good Amp per hour rating, say this http://www.rechargeonline.co.uk/batteries/uc26-12.htm for example then making a suitable enclosure with new weatherproof outlets for the lights power leads.

Can anyone think of a pitfall or a reason why this would not work?
 
Looks pretty good.

So what sort of lights and how many are you using with this and roughly how long you getting out of it?
 
yeah but the noise and pollution may be a problem with certain locations. Some sites may not allow a petrol generator to be used.
Also looking at what I am trying to do will cost less than £100 which compared to the pre-manufactured units on the market this is cheap
 
I saw a guy at a boot sale using one of them to show that the hoovers he was selling were working.:):thumbs:
 
I just looked at spec of my lights and my 300W lights have a modeling lamp of 250W, so this equates to just over 1 amp per hour if in continuous use. So 2 of these will use 2 amps per hour which is simple so based on the battery above rated at 26 amps per hour I should get 13 hours continuous use, right?

What I cant figure out is how many flashes I would get from the 2 units as well as using the modeling lamps? My head is scrambled now playing with these figures!!!
 
jockwav said:
I saw a guy at a boot sale using one of them to show that the hoovers he was selling were working.:):thumbs:
Click to expand...


You need a pure sine wave adapter for the likes of studio lighting, the cheap ones that will work a Hoover etc aren't suitable...
 
You live & learn.:lol::thumbs:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You need a pure sine wave adapter for the likes of studio lighting, the cheap ones that will work a Hoover etc aren't suitable...
Click to expand...
Why do you think you need clean AC for lighting?
Now if you were to be using a computer this was the case years ago but not so not.
You thinking please
 
Have to say that the price difference between a modified sine and a pure wave sine is a fair bit. Pure sine is coming in at about £100.
 
Chaz Photos said:
Why do you think you need clean AC for lighting?
Now if you were to be using a computer this was the case years ago but not so not.
You thinking please
Click to expand...

Studio flash needs clean power because it contains complex electronics.
The same applies to PC's but not to laptops, which don't operate on mains power.

This is one of those situations where 'try it and see' is likely to be a very expensive mistake;)
 
Hi Garry,

Well as you know I use the Lencarta lights, so would you recommend this approach to powering the lights as an alternative to dedicated units?

I could purchase an off the shelf inverter to do the job (pure sine wave) or get the electronic company I know to build one for me then put it all in a housing with a battery.

Cost is my main factor here as it is not something I will use day in and day out so not really in a position to buy a specific unit from a manufacturer.

Cheers
 
Chaz Photos said:
Why do you think you need clean AC for lighting?
Now if you were to be using a computer this was the case years ago but not so not.
You thinking please
Click to expand...

Exactly what Mr Edwards says - I've looked into this already and I wasn't prepared to blow up a several hundred quid worth of lights just to it out ;)

Paulmack said:
Hi Garry,

Well as you know I use the Lencarta lights, so would you recommend this approach to powering the lights as an alternative to dedicated units?

I could purchase an off the shelf inverter to do the job (pure sine wave) or get the electronic company I know to build one for me then put it all in a housing with a battery.

Cost is my main factor here as it is not something I will use day in and day out so not really in a position to buy a specific unit from a manufacturer.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I would think, in the long run it would be better to buy the proper tool for the job, rather than faffing around with homemade stuff. It's like those cheap Ebay wireless triggers, eventually you realise you should have bought the proper thing from the get go.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Exactly what Mr Edwards says - I've looked into this already and I wasn't prepared to blow up a several hundred quid worth of lights just to it out ;).
Click to expand...

I do not understand this how do you think a bit of noise on a AC power supply will blow up your gear?
I was an electrician and moved into electronics and can see not real reason for clean supply
 
Chaz Photos said:
I do not understand this how do you think a bit of noise on a AC power supply will blow up your gear?
I was an electrician and moved into electronics and can see not real reason for clean supply
Click to expand...


I'm only going by what everyone else said on all the various sites I read whilst researching it - if you want to hook up a set of lights to a twenty quid inverter and let us know the results I'd be all for that :thumbs:
 
Thanks flash, good bit of reading.

After looking at it and a few other sites I have been wandering around I dont think that my plan to go DIY is fundamentally flawed and can work as long as I get it right.
The reason I am looking at this is primarily due to the fact that Lencarta use totally different lights for their portable system so I would need to buy a whole new system rather than just get a battery pack.

I know a couple of electronic companies who carry out repairs on our test equipment at work so I will speak to them and see if they can produce something purpose built for me to use with one or two batteries.

Will explore this further tomorrow and post back if anyone else is interested....

Cheers
 
Re cheap mains inverters, the problem isn't just a little noise, many used to supply a square wave. Lots of mains powered electronic based equipment do not agree with this, and dislike the fast rise times, expecting a sine wave. I'm not sure if this basic type are still sold, but even a dirty sine wave can harm some equipment.

Has the OP seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKoaQZSAryQ&feature=related
 
Paulmack said:
Thanks flash, good bit of reading.

After looking at it and a few other sites I have been wandering around I dont think that my plan to go DIY is fundamentally flawed and can work as long as I get it right.
The reason I am looking at this is primarily due to the fact that Lencarta use totally different lights for their portable system so I would need to buy a whole new system rather than just get a battery pack.

I know a couple of electronic companies who carry out repairs on our test equipment at work so I will speak to them and see if they can produce something purpose built for me to use with one or two batteries.

Will explore this further tomorrow and post back if anyone else is interested....


Cheers
Click to expand...
I have no understanding of electricity whatever, but my family lives in a very remote location and used to rely on generated power. Finding out what could & couldn't work safely was... an experience:'( Actually, most things worked reasonably well - just for a very short time.

I can't think of any reason why DIY won't be fine, as long as it's done with full understanding of the issues.
 
steveb said:
Has the OP seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKoaQZSAryQ&feature=related
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much what I'm thinking really. Cant see why I cant work with this principal and produce something a little more suitable. I think though rather than go with an off the shelf inverter I will speak to someone about getting something to suit, this way I can hopefully get it to match the dimensions of the battery and therefore make a smaller housing. Little something for me to work on anyway and keep me out of trouble :)
 
tiler65 said:
This is not Jacob.

This is the best solution.

Clicky
Click to expand...

Yeah seen that and it has got me thinking.... Got a few in work so will "borrow" one and try it.

God knows why I didnt think of that already!

Cheers Tiler
 
Garry Edwards said:
Studio flash needs clean power because it contains complex electronics.
The same applies to PC's but not to laptops, which don't operate on mains power.

This is one of those situations where 'try it and see' is likely to be a very expensive mistake;)
Click to expand...

PC don’t use mains Most electronic do not use mains all have some form of voltage drop most of the time to DC come to that and with any power circuits you will have rectification which will have smoothing built in I can not see anything needing clean power of the kind talked about here.
I do believe most talk is put about by the suppliers of such kit to up sales.
As the flash tubes are lit by high voltage this will come from a capacitor and there for will not be effected by any noisy power supply (capacitors are use in smoothing).
I have a inverter and use it with PA equipment radio mics mixing desk and I-pod all with out any problem and sound amplification is one place if there is problems it will show with hum .
 
Garry Edwards said:
Studio flash needs clean power because it contains complex electronics.
The same applies to PC's but not to laptops, which don't operate on mains power.

This is one of those situations where 'try it and see' is likely to be a very expensive mistake;)
Click to expand...

:plusone: I was on a shoot with a guy and he blew two heads from using a genny :O

proper clean power from petrol (or diesel) backup is expensive, my bro did a job at a cop shop to provide backup power to the radios and it cost 27 grand
 
david1701 said:
:plusone: I was on a shoot with a guy and he blew two heads from using a genny :O

proper clean power from petrol (or diesel) backup is expensive, my bro did a job at a cop shop to provide backup power to the radios and it cost 27 grand
Click to expand...

If it a Gen you want then one of the good ones is
Honda EU20i Petrol Silent Suitcase Generator

One of the most popular generators in Honda's generator portfolio. This Honda generator is very popular with caravan and camping enthusiasts. Its main features are its Portability, low noise, clean and efficient power, with the benefit of a greater power output. this model is super silent at only 52dB(a) @ 7M. The Honda Inverter Technology delivers power that's cleaner and smoother than the electricity from the mains supply, with superb efficiency and reliability ensuring that you don't get left in the dark.

Kva: 2.2
Rated Watts: 1600
Voltage: 230 / 12V DC
Running Time: 10.5 hours @ 1/4 load
Engine HP: 5.5

RRP : £1,115.01
Sale Price Ex Vat with Free Delivery £830.30
 
I have "built" one of these using a Sealed lead acid battery and a pure sine wave inverter. Works pretty well, but you do need to get the good quazlity pure sine wave inverter.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I'm only going by what everyone else said on all the various sites I read whilst researching it - if you want to hook up a set of lights to a twenty quid inverter and let us know the results I'd be all for that :thumbs:
Click to expand...
The question when reading anything on the internet is who is saying it.
I was an electrician and later studied electronics so I have worked in both side of electrics and I have to tell you the mains you get in your house if far from clean yet you will plug your lights in to any mains socket with out a worry.
In my electrical days back in 1970’s for the banks we had to run special power supplies for the computers on a clean circuit with sockets that had the pins at a different angel to the 13amp ones so no one could plug the wrong thing in.
 
Chaz Photos said:
The question when reading anything on the internet is who is saying it.
I was an electrician and later studied electronics so I have worked in both side of electrics and I have to tell you the mains you get in your house if far from clean yet you will plug your lights in to any mains socket with out a worry.
In my electrical days back in 1970’s for the banks we had to run special power supplies for the computers on a clean circuit with sockets that had the pins at a different angel to the 13amp ones so no one could plug the wrong thing in.
Click to expand...

Chaz, I think what you are referring to there are clean earth systems which were common back in the day and as such used non standard plug tops. In effect the earth was direct from that circuit to the main earth bar back at the main intake to reduce the possibility of any other circuits with faults affecting the designated circuit. This helped to reduce the risk of the computers losing supply. Not entirely sure that this was to process the ac waveform and smooth it unless of course any such equipment was installed at the same time to do so?

I dont necessarily disagree with you about the need for a clean AC waveform but it has been a bloody long time since I served my apprenticeship so my electronics knowledge is somewhat lacking :thinking:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I couldn't agree more,do you have any empirical evidence to back up your hypothesis?
Click to expand...

Well as an electronics engineer I have an understanding of how it all works and as your source of power is DC you have no noise to start with you are then making a step up to 240V from 12VDC and making it AC most of today systems are chip control OK you might not have a pure sine wave (I take it you all understand what one is)

the kind of thing NOT to use on this set up are

Ceiling fans (brushless),Phase/synchronous motors, Phase-angle control units, Clocks, 50/60Hz dependant units, Lamp dimmers, Drill speed controllers, Synchronous central-heating pumps, Older record turntables
OK to use are
mobile telephone charger, Electronic test equipment, Computer, Printer, Modem, Computer monitors
Tungsten lamps, Fluorescent lamps, "Economy" lamps, Radio, TV, VCR
Satellite/Terrestrial digi boxes receiver, Locks, security, CCTV, AC/DC motors (brush motors), drills, saws, Chargers, starters, heaters, Transformer input equipment, Oil-fired boilers/heaters
Fire/intruder alarm, "Battery Eliminator" units, Toys, Train-sets, etc
All valve equipment.

I hope this helps you understand
 
I wandered back through the thread and I like the idea of using a UPS all the clever thinking has been done for you and if the power is safe for a server with a lot of very valuable data on it not counting the hardware costs then odds are it will cope very well with a flash head, the debateable thing is whether the rapid change in current draw (when the head starts recharging) will cause it to do something untoward which could be an issue.

I've just finished my first year of an MEng in electronics so I'm interested to learn how this stuff works but would be very happy to use an existing system as a proof of concept- in fact I will soon have access to some studio heads and will have a go at this when funding allows :D
 
Just a little update on this if anyone else is thinking of doing something similar.

I work with an electronics company on a regular basis as they repair our test equipment and I have had a good conversation with one of the engineers there and he has a good grasp of what it is I want to do so he is going to have a look into it and see what options there are to putting together a system which will not cause any damage to the lights.

He told me that once he has an understanding of the requirements of the lights and what the effects of using a portable system will be he will then either recommend an off the shelf inverter to use or he will knock something up for me that will work. He even thinks I may be able buy a unit which has the inverter and battery all in one (bit like a car battery jump pack, but more suitable without the possible inrush of current).

So hopefully for a price not exceeding £150 I will have a system that will work a treat, fingers crossed!
 
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