Portable Flash Systems - looking for some advice

Chris_911

Chris_911

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Chris Tarling
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I undertake a lot of outdoor on-location dog photography and am seriously considering the purchase of a portable flash system to replace my speedlights. Basically I'm struggling for power when using flash with dogs that are playing (using HSS to freeze the action), and I'd also like a more powerful system to be able to overcome strong ambient light.

Price is a consideration and I'm drawn to the Lencarta Safari 2 but am concerned that the flash duration is too long for my needs. I have read about tail-end sync but it's not something I'm able to try.

I'm looking for thoughts and guidance before I make an expensive mistake......
 
What about the lencarta atom? Or Godox wistro, the 380 version kicks out the same power as about 9 speed lights from what I've been told (not necessarily gospel) the lencarta version is basically a rebranded Godox unit but is considerably more expensive unless you're not bothered about sending the unit back to China should anything go wrong under warranty. They are also compatible with HSS from what I've read too.
 
If the OP needs a short flash duration then the Safari 2 is as quick as it gets in a powerful unit without spending silly money.
The Atom won't do it, because it's an IGBT flash - the short flash durations, like any hotshoe flashgun, are only available at low power settings, so not suitable for his needs. Yes, they are HSS enabled, but need both the power doubler and a suitable radio trigger to get that, and of course the power is then arguably too low to be useful.

Yes, there are a lot of HK sellers selling the Atom with Godox branding at silly low prices (no duty, VAT, tax or warranty costs) and it's a case of you pays your money and takes your choice, but saving money will turn out to be VERY expensive if it goes wrong once it's too late to leave negative feedback.
We keep getting people asking us to repair units for them, we just politely suggest that they get the seller to do the repairs:)
 
As a happy Safari2 user, as long as you're overpowering the ambient by a chunk, the flash duration should freeze the dogs.

The downside is that it's short flash duration means it's not a great setup for tail end sync (or whatever term you feel best about). So if you've got high ambient light levels to knock out and you need a high shutter speed, the Safari2 is maybe not the best setup.

I gave up trying to set Supersync with the Yongnuo triggers and I use an ND filter now.
 
Thanks All.
Thanks Garry for replying here and your quick response to my e-mail.
I have a Yongnuo YN-622 trigger set so I will see if I can hire a Safari 2 set up to test.
 
Chris_911 said:
Thanks All.
Thanks Garry for replying here and your quick response to my e-mail.
I have a Yongnuo YN-622 trigger set so I will see if I can hire a Safari 2 set up to test.
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Where are you Chris, there might be an owner close by.
 
Garry Edwards said:
If the OP needs a short flash duration then the Safari 2 is as quick as it gets in a powerful unit without spending silly money.
The Atom won't do it, because it's an IGBT flash - the short flash durations, like any hotshoe flashgun, are only available at low power settings, so not suitable for his needs. Yes, they are HSS enabled, but need both the power doubler and a suitable radio trigger to get that, and of course the power is then arguably too low to be useful.

Yes, there are a lot of HK sellers selling the Atom with Godox branding at silly low prices (no duty, VAT, tax or warranty costs) and it's a case of you pays your money and takes your choice, but saving money will turn out to be VERY expensive if it goes wrong once it's too late to leave negative feedback.
We keep getting people asking us to repair units for them, we just politely suggest that they get the seller to do the repairs:)
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Are these limited to HSS to either Nikon or canon with a suitable controller?
 
si019 said:
Are these limited to HSS to either Nikon or canon with a suitable controller?
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They don't do HSS as such, as Garry says, they have a short flash duration. The supplied trigger is camera agnostic.
 
Chris_911 said:
Hi Phil. I'm in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.
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If you're on FB, there's a group called 'The Light Side', it's worth a follow anyway, but there might be people there who live close enough for a demo.
 
In fact @mike weeks is just down in Dorset and might be up for a demo of some gear. He's smart and generally very helpful.
 
What about quantuum lights?

With battery packs!
 
mike weeks said:
Forget the Safari 2 and tail sync, it actually has a flash duration that is too short, strangely the atom 360 is better for that and you do not have the associated HSS issues of 10 shots and thermal protection

Mike
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Hi Mike. Thanks for your reply. So, if I understand you correctly you feel the Atom 360 would be better for my use? Typically a shutter speed of 1/1250 is sufficiently fast to stop the action in my photo sessions.
 
For good tail sync the flash duration needs to be as long as the maximum sync speed of the camera so that you get light coverage for the duration of the travel of both shutter curtains. The AD360 is approx 1/300s duration at full power (at lower powers the duration shortens so can only be used at full power)so you can use long tail effectively, the Safari 2 is much shorter so it rules it out on that account. The AD360 also has an HSS mode which the Safari 2 does not have so it can be used in that mode as well. Both ways of using it will drop the power however I reckon that you might have slightly more power using long tail at 1/1250. The issue may still however be one of power, so is this for fill in or to overpower daylight? What is your typical ISO, aperture and working distance for the flash and what sort of modifier are you planning on using. The standard reflector in my opinion would be suitable if I have some of the other details. More than happy to run some tests if I have the details, in the mean time this may be of interest http://www.dorsetphotoevent.co.uk/aaa/In search of high speed flash synchronisation.pdf

MIke
 
Personally, I think that if you want to freeze motion in daylight from a distance your best bet is HSS. The AD360(in whatever variety) is great for that...

If you actually want to overpower the daylight, plan on using several. I have adapted the quantum telephoto reflector and bulb spacer to my AD360.... I gain about a stop of efficiency/distance.
 
Getting at bit confused now, so the AD360 or equivalent is better than the safari ?
Do you need a compatible HSS trigger or can you use some other means?
 
si019 said:
Getting at bit confused now, so the AD360 or equivalent is better than the safari ?
Do you need a compatible HSS trigger or can you use some other means?
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Not 'better than', just better for HSS, and more portable, but much less powerful and not as quick to recycle etc etc.

Yes you need a HSS compatible trigger, the std one doesn't support HSS.
 
Phil V said:
Not 'better than', just better for HSS, and more portable, but much less powerful and not as quick to recycle etc etc.

Yes you need a HSS compatible trigger, the std one doesn't support HSS.
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This was my understanding and thanks for clarifying.
 
This all great food for thought.
Thinking further on what I want to do it boils down to getting a flash set up that can provide fill for dogs moving on a bright sunny day but can also give me the flexibility to produce some dramatic portrait shots by overpowering the daylight.
My fear is that one requirement is niche and the other very general and that I actually need two systems or one system that's out of my budget (actually they both amount to the same thing budget-wise).
I am able to work in a limited way with my speed lights but they simply lack power for the action shots in daylight.
I also shoot horses and would like to be able to add some drama into the lighting with flash.
 
Chris_911 said:
This all great food for thought.
Thinking further on what I want to do it boils down to getting a flash set up that can provide fill for dogs moving on a bright sunny day but can also give me the flexibility to produce some dramatic portrait shots by overpowering the daylight.
My fear is that one requirement is niche and the other very general and that I actually need two systems or one system that's out of my budget (actually they both amount to the same thing budget-wise).
I am able to work in a limited way with my speed lights but they simply lack power for the action shots in daylight.
I also shoot horses and would like to be able to add some drama into the lighting with flash.
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If we were in America, I'd suggest the Adorama Rovelight 600p, now it is possible to get a Jinbei branded equivalent, but probably not from the UK with a warranty.
Next up is the Profoto B1 (but you probably knew that)

I can't think of anything else, but there may be options.
 
Sunny 16 Rule

If we have an ISO of 100 then on a bright day we have a shutter speed of 1/100 and an aperture of f16, so typically as most sync speeds are 1/200 or 1/250 we could say at maximum sync speed on a very bright day we will have an aperture of f8 (the rule allows this to go up by a stop for snow or sand or harsh shadows)

To get a dramatic sky we really need an exposure of at least 2 stops under or if we want to look at it the other way we need flash at least 2 stops brighter i.e. f22 and expose for the flash.

The AD360 has a GN of 85 so if we do the maths (guide number / f stop = distance) 85/22= approx 4 metres i.e. we can have the flash at about 4 metres and overpower daylight easily if we stick to max sync speed

You lose about 2 stops going to HSS at 1/500 and then for every stop faster you lose a stop of light

You will also lose light using the long tail sync system as it will also use an ever smaller amount of the total light

One advantage that HSS has over long tail sync when using the AD360 is that you can turn the power down to 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 of course this is more like having 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and 1/32

Personally I doubt that you do actually need 2 different systems, what you need is real world tests of the above because for fill flash you really need 1 1/2 or 2 stops less than ambient so instead of 4 metres we would have

85/5.6 = 15 metres and with the loss from HSS this means about 7.5 metres

Phil has mentioned the Rovelight 600 which in reality is just a single stop brighter, sometimes we need that stop, other times not, this may be an alternative but at £1000 you could have 3 AD360s http://www.dalephotographic.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/DalePhotographicOnline/_19501

Mike
 
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Resurrecting this thread...
I've continued to look into a portable flash set up and have come very close to buying the Lencarta Safari 2. BUT - don't know how I missed it but have now been looking at the Phottix Indra500 TTL (have only just become aware of its existence!).
My biggest interest in this is not the fact that it has TTL capability but that it has HSS.
Surprisingly there seems to be little information available as to its real-world performance. I've found a couple of blog reviews but that's it.

Question to the collective here - has anyone purchased this system and have an opinion on it?

Thanks.
 
mike weeks said:
Sunny 16 Rule

If we have an ISO of 100 then on a bright day we have a shutter speed of 1/100 and an aperture of f16, so typically as most sync speeds are 1/200 or 1/250 we could say at maximum sync speed on a very bright day we will have an aperture of f8 (the rule allows this to go up by a stop for snow or sand or harsh shadows)

To get a dramatic sky we really need an exposure of at least 2 stops under or if we want to look at it the other way we need flash at least 2 stops brighter i.e. f22 and expose for the flash.

The AD360 has a GN of 85 so if we do the maths (guide number / f stop = distance) 85/22= approx 4 metres i.e. we can have the flash at about 4 metres and overpower daylight easily if we stick to max sync speed

You lose about 2 stops going to HSS at 1/500 and then for every stop faster you lose a stop of light

You will also lose light using the long tail sync system as it will also use an ever smaller amount of the total light

One advantage that HSS has over long tail sync when using the AD360 is that you can turn the power down to 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 of course this is more like having 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and 1/32

Personally I doubt that you do actually need 2 different systems, what you need is real world tests of the above because for fill flash you really need 1 1/2 or 2 stops less than ambient so instead of 4 metres we would have

85/5.6 = 15 metres and with the loss from HSS this means about 7.5 metres

Phil has mentioned the Rovelight 600 which in reality is just a single stop brighter, sometimes we need that stop, other times not, this may be an alternative but at £1000 you could have 3 AD360s http://www.dalephotographic.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/DalePhotographicOnline/_19501

Mike
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And if I'd followed your link Mike I would have known about it much sooner.
 
The Interfit S1 was available at the Wilkinson Cameras show on Sunday.
The Phottix Indra, along with their Mitros+ flash, can be fired and controlled from camera position by their Odin trigger.
 
Chris_911 said:
Does anybody on here use the Phottix Indra500 TTL?
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There's a few users on POTN, and a couple of discussions in their lighting forum. All I'd say is, there's nothing I've read there that'd make me want one.
 
TBH I never use TTL now as no need really that's why I prefer my elinchrom quadra
Although cordless really appeals to me
 
Phil V said:
There's a few users on POTN, and a couple of discussions in their lighting forum. All I'd say is, there's nothing I've read there that'd make me want one.
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Hi Phil.
Thanks - would love to hear what specifically puts you off (if anything)?
My specific interest is in the HSS functionality it has, NOT TTL.
Oh yes - what is POTN? EDIT: Found it = Photography on the Net
Thanks.
 
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Phil V said:
There's a few users on POTN, and a couple of discussions in their lighting forum. All I'd say is, there's nothing I've read there that'd make me want one.
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Why is that Phil? I've got two and think they're excellent value when compared to the alternatives. 500ws, HSS, TTL, battery and mains powered. Can't be many that tick all of those boxes?
 
Chris_911 said:
Does anybody on here use the Phottix Indra500 TTL?
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Yeah.

It was a toss up between the Indra 500, or the Profoto B1/B2. Cost was obviously a massive factor which is why I went with the Indra, but I've also been using Phottix products for years and never had any problems. I was lucky enough to spend the full week in Dubai at GPP2015 and use the Indra with a ton of instructors who were all singing it's praises right out the box. I worked with it in the studio and out on location and it didn't skip a beat so I picked up a couple.

I think half of the problem with Phottix is they're terrible at marketing themselves compared to the other manufacturers.
 
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