Police forget law shocker

Forbiddenbiker said:
They do take your fingerprints and DNA though... you have no choice.

..for some unknown period of 'non permanent' filing...

which is nice .. ;)
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Well he'd have to be taken to a police station for that to happen Adam. It's not really clear from the report but it sounds like he was just detained at the scene.

I had my fingerprints taken when I joined as every copper does for elimination purposes. Just before I retired I was invited to attend HQ to watch them being destroyed. I really couldn't be arsed. I've no doubt they've been routinely destroyed, but if they haven't I'm not losing one wink of sleep about it and I wouldn't if they had my DNA either. :shrug:
 
CT said:
Well he'd have to be taken to a police station for that to happen Adam. It's not really clear from the report but it sounds like he was just detained at the scene.

I had my fingerprints taken when I joined as every copper does for elimination purposes. Just before I retired I was invited to attend HQ to watch them being destroyed. I really couldn't be arsed. I've no doubt they've been routinely destroyed, but if they haven't I'm not losing one wink of sleep about it and I wouldn't if they had my DNA either. :shrug:
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Ah ok, my mistake then. :thumbs:

Its an odd one that question sin' It I agree.
I guess it comes down to one question. Do you trust those in control of that information and whomever that might be in the future. Hmm yeah.
 
CT said:
Well he'd have to be taken to a police station for that to happen Adam. It's not really clear from the report but it sounds like he was just detained at the scene.
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He can't have been taken to a police station as you can only be de-arrested prior to arrival there.

Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, s30, subsection 7, which sets out the circumstances for what is known as 'de-arresting'

PACE said:
A person arrested by a constable at any place other than a police station must be released without bail if the condition in subsection (7A) is satisfied.

(7A)The condition is that, at any time before the person arrested reaches a police station, a constable is satisfied that there are no grounds for keeping him under arrest or releasing him on bail under section 30A
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Otherwise, he would have been released without charge.
 
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Forbiddenbiker said:
I guess it comes down to one question. Do you trust those in control of that information and whomever that might be in the future. Hmm yeah.
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LOL. Well I do.I'm not planning any armed blaggings and I've so far resisted the temptation to jump on the fit bird from No 23 up the road,so I reckon I'm gonna be OK. :D
 
CT said:
LOL. Well I do.I'm not planning any armed blaggings and I've so far resisted the temptation to jump on the fit bird from No 23 up the road,so I reckon I'm gonna be OK. :D
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lol I bets yours is more Italian job ..with civic Rs Obviously. (is that right, dont know my cars)

. No you got me wrong, I mean stuff like, them losing it on the tube, and anything in-between to hackers stealing identities for crime or whatnot..
 
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Forbiddenbiker said:
lol I bets yours is more Italian job ..with civic Rs Obviously. (is that right, dont know my cars)

. No you got me wrong, I mean stuff like, them losing it on the tube, and anything in-between to hackers stealing identities for crime or whatnot..
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LOL I used to be into Civic Type-Rs - got a hairdresser Audi TT now. :lol:

In all honesty, I value my freedom and rights as much as the next guy, but I know just what a break-through in crime detection DNA is. I can think of a couple of enquiries I was involved in for two long years prior to DNA which would have been cleared up a lot sooner had the technology been available at the time. On that basis alone if they want my DNA they can have it.

Hackers and stolen identities is unfortunately something we have to live with. For me the benefits outweigh the risks.
 
CT said:
LOL I used to be into Civic Type-Rs - got a hairdresser Audi TT now. :lol:

In all honesty, I value my freedom and rights as much as the next guy, but I know just what a break-through in crime detection DNA is. I can think of a couple of enquiries I was involved in for two long years prior to DNA which would have been cleared up a lot sooner had the technology been available at the time. On that basis alone if they want my DNA they can have it.

Hackers and stolen identities is unfortunately something we have to live with. For me the benefits outweigh the risks.
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I used to work in forensic research and I wouldn't be happy having my DNA on file or profile in the database. We had to have our profiles on for exclusion but it was done in a way that didn't identify which profile belong to a particular individual. There's quite a few reasons why I wouldn't want that, everything from cock ups with the profiling to miss use of the information. You realise a profile that would determine your risk of various genetically based disorders could be obtained from biological material on file and used by employers, insurance companies etc. If not now in the future. Also DNA evidence is good but not infallible, there have already been cases of mistaken identity confirmed. It's also quite easy to frame someone up if you know what to do but the police seem to dismiss this by saying criminals are not that sophisticated, the scientists who developed the techniques warn them of this but they choose to ignore it.

To sum it up I have never met anyone working in the science side of the field who would be happy to have their profile on a database to make it easy to catch criminals. Your choice though.
 
lensflair said:
I used to work in forensic research and I wouldn't be happy having my DNA on file or profile in the database. We had to have our profiles on for exclusion but it was done in a way that didn't identify which profile belong to a particular individual. There's quite a few reasons why I wouldn't want that, everything from cock ups with the profiling to miss use of the information. You realise a profile that would determine your risk of various genetically based disorders could be obtained from biological material on file and used by employers, insurance companies etc. If not now in the future. Also DNA evidence is good but not infallible, there have already been cases of mistaken identity confirmed. It's also quite easy to frame someone up if you know what to do but the police seem to dismiss this by saying criminals are not that sophisticated, the scientists who developed the techniques warn them of this but they choose to ignore it.

To sum it up I have never met anyone working in the science side of the field who would be happy to have their profile on a database to make it easy to catch criminals. Your choice though.
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Fair enough Graham - I hear what you're saying. The thing is as a cop you see the bodies and misery that that these offences leave behind, it's not so easy to be detached from it. I can think of enquiries where we had the fingerprints of the offender, shoe prints, and blood group, but no prints on record and DNA testing wasn't born yet. Others where we had oodles of biological evidence from the offender, again pre DNA and nothing like the same value those samples would be today. It's heartbreaking to be so close especially when fresh victims keep turning up and you're putting in every hour God sends.

I've spent a lifetime working within our justice system and seen it working close up warts and all - not always to my advantage sometimes I might add, but truthfully I have a lot of faith in it. Should I ever find myself wrongfully accused I'll take my chances in front of a British judge and jury.
 
CT said:
Fair enough Graham - I hear what you're saying. The thing is as a cop you see the bodies and misery that that these offences leave behind, it's not so easy to be detached from it. I can think of enquiries where we had the fingerprints of the offender, shoe prints, and blood group, but no prints on record and DNA testing wasn't born yet. Others where we had oodles of biological evidence from the offender, again pre DNA and nothing like the same value those samples would be today. It's heartbreaking to be so close especially when fresh victims keep turning up and you're putting in every hour God sends.

I've spent a lifetime working within our justice system and seen it working close up warts and all - not always to my advantage sometimes I might add, but truthfully I have a lot of faith in it. Should I ever find myself wrongfully accused I'll take my chances in front of a British judge and jury.
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Don't get me wrong, DNA evidence can be very useful and if done right and used in the right circumstances can be very valuable. But there are so many problems when we start thinking about just having everyone on a database, which I know you haven't suggested here, but is kind of where I think this is going.

Anyway, I expect one day it probably will happen, but I don't think it will make much of an impact on crime.
 
lensflair said:
Don't get me wrong, DNA evidence can be very useful and if done right and used in the right circumstances can be very valuable. But there are so many problems when we start thinking about just having everyone on a database, which I know you haven't suggested here, but is kind of where I think this is going.

Anyway, I expect one day it probably will happen, but I don't think it will make much of an impact on crime.
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It will have a huge impact intitially, then the bean counters will start complaining about the cost of the lab submissions. :D
 
lensflair said:
I used to work in forensic research and I wouldn't be happy having my DNA on file or profile in the database. We had to have our profiles on for exclusion but it was done in a way that didn't identify which profile belong to a particular individual. There's quite a few reasons why I wouldn't want that, everything from cock ups with the profiling to miss use of the information. You realise a profile that would determine your risk of various genetically based disorders could be obtained from biological material on file and used by employers, insurance companies etc. If not now in the future. Also DNA evidence is good but not infallible, there have already been cases of mistaken identity confirmed. It's also quite easy to frame someone up if you know what to do but the police seem to dismiss this by saying criminals are not that sophisticated, the scientists who developed the techniques warn them of this but they choose to ignore it.

To sum it up I have never met anyone working in the science side of the field who would be happy to have their profile on a database to make it easy to catch criminals. Your choice though.
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Blimey I had no idea .. enough said then. If you have no faith in its use then how can a layman like me be expected to trust it. :shake:

On the bold bit. We're already their...
Have you guys seen this life length test you can buy for around £500.
It measures the length of our DNAs Telomere's in a bid to show ones indicated biological life length.

When that test is twenty quit, insurance companies will start asking if one has had the test. Then Inevitably as the sensationalising drops they will start to suggest we need to take the test to get better insurance. Until finally minimising their risk by insisting you take the test to even be applicable for insurance.

In a similar way to credit scoring, somebody else will have control of what was once part of ones own life and private affairs.
 
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