Pocket Wizards TT1 & TT5

Denis99

Denis99

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Denis
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Hi

I've posted a few times asking for some off camera advice (thanks to all for the advice).

I have mainly been using on camera flash (7D with 580 ex II) and a little bit of remote using the IR capabilities of the 7D.

I feel more comfortable about using flash since having experimented for about two months.

I'm very near spending ~ £400 on the TT1 & TT5 combination to get the flash off the camera with a bit of distance between the camera and the flash itself (plus being able to site behind trees etc).

Must have searched every post on here about OCF - but would appreciate some advice from PW TT1 &TT5 owners. I see alot of people have bought cheaper systems but seem to eventually sell their systems and end up with PW's.

I'm drawn to PW's due to the high synch speed and ease of use - my main area for using these is in mountain bike / moto cross - where I want to capture the blue sky using a higher shutter speed to freezr the action.

Any comments or real world views appreciated.
 
I thought it was the flash duration that captured the motion and the shutter speed only controlled the ambient light? Unless the subject can't be completely covered in the flash light where I guess the faster shutter would be required?

Not sure though lol :)
 
Hi Denis,

I also have the 7 D and the 580 EXii as well as the 430EXii and have enjoyed using the camera to set of the lights. However, like yourself, I wanted to use the flash units out of sight of the camera, but I felt that the Pocket Wizard, although thought to be the best, was a little too high in price having already spent a lot on equipment in the last couple of months.

Having read such excellent reports about Yongnuo working with Canon cameras, I have just invested in a triple set of the Yongnuo RF 602 units for a great price - ( £58-99 in total) - far cheaper than PW. I ordered them from here - ebay@cotswoldphoto.co.uk on Thursday this week and they were delivered on Friday and work perfectly. An excellent service, which I would highly recommend, so why not check it out yourself.

If you did not like them once you have tried, and I think you will, you can always offer them on TP for a good price and go for PW at the much higher price.

Give me a shout on PM if you want to know more. Don't know your location, but if local to me we could get together and exchange notes - even think about a 7D get together in the Midlands??

Regards

Malcolm
 
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I use pocket Wizard plus2's at both ends and think they're great, had them about 3 years and never had any probs. They're not camera specific so your'e not limited in anyway, I use them on my pro7B kit, my mono heads and nikon speedlights.

I bought them in the US because they are £100 each rather than £180, which was great until I found out that the US use a different radio frequency to Europe - I have 3 so its fine, however I specifically bought profoto mono heads which have built in (Euro) radio slaves which are to useless with my US pocket wizards so I have to to have a pocket wizard on the head anyway...

SJ
 
If you want the highest x-sync speed, and I can see why you would, then it has to be PWs. They're more than just a radio-triggered version of the Canon E-TTL system (that's the Radio Popper) they take things a useful step forward with HyperSync and Optimised HSS :thumbs:

But there have been more than a few problems with them, some real and probably quite a few imagined, plus of course they're expensive. All that is a matter of record and PW have been working like mad to sort things out, so the questions I'm asking are, as of now, do they work, do they work at good range, are they reliable?

I think yes, I'd buy a set now - the Euro-spec ones that don't suffer the RF-range problem (allegedly!) - but there are a few other items higher up the list for me. Meanwhile, I get by pretty well with the on-board IR system and a few RF-602s as and when.

Sorry to ramble - HTH.
 
Thanks for the replies. My turn to ramble - I'm in South Wales , thanks for the offer, but its a bit of a trek.

Its the cost of the PW's thats stopping me - I can just about afford them, but I'd need to be certain that they work reliably (at the current prices).

As tempting as the RF 602's are, they don't (obviously) provide me with all the functions - plus they look more of a faff to set up (compared to the PW's).

I'm tempted by the PW's - but still a bit concerned about some of the reports on the web.

Ideally was looking for greater than 30metres distance as well.

My reasoning is as follows.

Would like to set up the flash near a jump and use my Sigma 100-300 lens at some distance (with fast shutter speed) to freeze the rider plus keep the background within some reasonable exposure.

The problem with using 1/250th is the background will look less appealing.

£400 for a TT1 & TT5 is alot - especially as I'm not 100% convinced ( about the effective range).

~~

I've been really interested in flash since getting the 580, and can see the benefits - its the best accessory I've bought.

Wondering if I should just wait longer to see the developments in OCF triggers, as it looks like there is alot of development ongoing between different manufacturers.

Short term (although it doesn't provide a total answer) is to buy a flash brcket to get some isolation away from the camera lens - still have all the Canon HSS capabilities (but would need to be relatively close to the subject).

Seems like I'm a bit indecisive about this .......LOL.
 
I'm not understanding what you are saying about the shutter speed freezing action (it's the flash which does that) or what's wrong with 1/250sec for the background. Can you explain?

There may be a workaround using cables or optical slaves or RF-602s or even a combination of them all. You will probably need an optical slave to hack remote second curtain sync, which is a popular trick with this kind of subject.

That sounds like a lot to get your head around and a faff to set up, but if you're going to the trouble of fixing remote guns and hanging around for a few shots, well it doesn't take a minute once you're familiar and you'll great results.
 
Hi Richard

Yep, I'm getting a bit confused - flash does freeze the action, but on bright days the sky has been blown out a bit using a slow(ish) shutter while panning.

I suppose I should have used shutter priority and then adjusted the flash for fill in (in manual control).

To be frank, I'm still finding it difficult to master flash photography and have read that many people take a lng time to become quite competent.

I'm very close to just taking the plunge and getting the PW's - will make my decision later tonight - cheapest I can find them in the UK (with 2 years warranty) is with Damien Lovegrove.

They are sitting in my account wishlist just waiting for me to buy.
 
A point to consider (with any purchase - not just PW's) is what about scaleability

If you want to add lights in the future then you'll need more PW's, or more Rf-602's or more (insert whatever you rend up with here)

Get the best that you can afford. Thats my motto in life
 
Denis99 said:
Hi Richard

Yep, I'm getting a bit confused - flash does freeze the action, but on bright days the sky has been blown out a bit using a slow(ish) shutter while panning.

I suppose I should have used shutter priority and then adjusted the flash for fill in (in manual control).
Click to expand...

What you should be doing is shooting in manual ;)

If you're shooting in a priority mode with TTL, you're not going to get consistent results, unless you get very lucky.

So you ought to be setting your camera for the overall background exposure, then adjusting the flash power to expose the rider.

Given what you're shooting, i.e. a fast moving object, you'll typically want to use rear curtain sync too, and since you're a Canon shooter, that means the more expensive PW's (MultiMax or TT series) If you don't use rear curtain sync, any motion trails/blur will appear to be travelling in the wrong direction.
 
JasonRS said:
So you ought to be setting your camera for the overall background exposure, then adjusting the flash power to expose the rider.
Click to expand...

Possibly even underexposing the sky by a stop or two for the deep blues you require, which is why you need the fast shutter speed ability of TT1 & TT5 unless you shoot within your camera sync limitations (possibly 1/250s at f22/f32) in which case you will need a pretty powerful flash at that aperture!

I wish PW would hurry up and sort out the Nikon TT1/5 :shake:
 
rogermbyrne said:
These (Phottix Atlas) are PW compatible and cheaper but not seems not HSS? http://strobist.blogspot.com/2010/06/pocket-wizard-compatible-remotes-are.html
Click to expand...

There was a few issues with the original release of these and are sorting it before re releasing (inc. a US frequency version). The are basically a pocket wizard, and there are legal avenues being looked at to stop these being sold.

Pocket wizards are worth the money if you can afford them. I use them for skateboarding, where a misfire is something you cannot really afford. I use plusII and have been amazingly happy with them. There is an issue with the original 580ex and 430ex due to interference issues.

You will not regret buying Pocket Wizards!
 
Thanks for all the responses - genuinely helping me make my decision.

JasonRS
Thanks for the advice - I have founf ETTL to be quite variable outdoors, and generally put the camera in shutter priority with the flash in manual (usually around 1/16th to 1/8th power).

Having Canon's external battery pack has helped with recycle times as well.

The one thing that is pushing me towards the PW's is it HSS simplicity. The instructional videos just state put the TT1 on the hotshoe and the TT5 to the 580exII and select aperture priority (using ETTL) and the HSS speed is enabled (varies according to the ambient light) - if this works in reality then this would make it very simple.

There is also a facility for rear curtain - attached the link below
http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/rear_curtain_sync/
 
Denis99 said:
There is also a facility for rear curtain - attached the link below
http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/rear_curtain_sync/
Click to expand...

I know, which is why I said you need the MultiMax or TT's (which you're looking at buying).

Shooting MTB or any action with the participant in the same spot, I'd ditch TTL and go manual all the way since you're only going to be firing at the same spot each time so there's no reason to let the camera make the decisions for you...
 
Denis99 said:
Thanks for all the responses - genuinely helping me make my decision.

JasonRS
Thanks for the advice - I have founf ETTL to be quite variable outdoors, and generally put the camera in shutter priority with the flash in manual (usually around 1/16th to 1/8th power).

Having Canon's external battery pack has helped with recycle times as well.

The one thing that is pushing me towards the PW's is it HSS simplicity. The instructional videos just state put the TT1 on the hotshoe and the TT5 to the 580exII and select aperture priority (using ETTL) and the HSS speed is enabled (varies according to the ambient light) - if this works in reality then this would make it very simple.

There is also a facility for rear curtain - attached the link below
http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/rear_curtain_sync/
Click to expand...

Hi Denis

I have the mini / flex combo and yes! They do work well (didn't at first.. ) Many upgrades later and I'm quite happy with them :cool: but I can't get more than about thirty metres or so range with the 580EXII ... I can live with that!

Having said all that .. If I was considering buying them now? I doubt I would go the mini/flex route and save quite a lot of money :thinking: ...

There is a Flickr group for the PW's that might be worth checking out for more feedback!
 
Thanks Jason

I've just been exploring about every possible video and piece of information on the PW site.

I'm just about to buy the TT1 &TT5 - probably continue for a short period (to get some reasonable results) in TTL, but will definately begin to use manual control soon.

But then Splog responded - what would you buy instead and why?
 
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One additional benefit of the Pocket Wizards that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is the ability to very easily adjust off-camera flash power (whether in eTTL mode or manual) using the AC-3. You basically get three small dials, one for each group, which can adjust +/-3 FEC in eTTL or from 1/1 to 1/64 in manual (in 1/3 stop intervals).

For what it's worth, I've been using a MiniTT1 and a couple of FlexTT5 at weddings for about 6 months now and had no reliability issues at all after upgrading to the most recent firmware.
 
rogermbyrne said:
These (Phottix Atlas) are PW compatible and cheaper but not seems not HSS? http://strobist.blogspot.com/2010/06/pocket-wizard-compatible-remotes-are.html
Click to expand...

ding76uk said:
There was a few issues with the original release of these and are sorting it before re releasing (inc. a US frequency version). The are basically a pocket wizard, and there are legal avenues being looked at to stop these being sold.
Click to expand...

Calumet are stocking a version with their own branding on them at £83.92 each...
 
Just by way of an update.

Firstly, thanks to everyone for their advice and comments - that's just what I wanted - and it has helped alot.

I know that I said I was interested in the PW's - but its the price that really stops me from taking this first step into triggers and OCF.

Decided to take a small step into OCF with some RF 602's , and use manual camera and flash settings.

If I can (eventually) master this, then a move to PW's might be on the cards at a later date - but the RF 602's aren't too big an initial purchase to take the first step.

Thanks to everyone.
 
Seems like a very sensible decision...look forward to seeing some of your OCF photos up here soon!
 
Denis99 said:
Decided to take a small step into OCF with some RF 602's , and use manual camera and flash settings.

If I can (eventually) master this, then a move to PW's might be on the cards at a later date - but the RF 602's aren't too big an initial purchase to take the first step.
Click to expand...

You'll crack it in no time, once you've had a few hours experimenting, it all falls into place.

BTW, whereabouts are you located as you may find someone nearby that can help you get started face to face.
 
I'm in Neath - South Wales.

Would appreciate a little help.
 
Good move Denis :thumbs:

Since you'll probably be wanting to do second curtain sync at some time, which you cannot do remotely without PWs, try this strobist trick.

IMG_4870-1.jpg


It's an optical slave just sat on top of the flash, set to second curtain sync. The slave picks it up and triggers the RF-602 transmitter. Pulling the wide panel out like this ensures you get a reliable trigger, even in bright light with the flash is on low power. I'm sure you could rig up something similar to trigger off your 7D's pop-up.

I got this little optical slave from ColinsFoto. They do a few useful bits and pieces including the elusive Sonia Green optical slave which works with all Canon EX flashes that suffer from the annoying lock-up disease* http://www.colinsfoto.com/Optical_flash_slave/cat43953_47721.aspx

Edit: This lock-up only afflicts certain Canon flashes, and only when the optical slave is attached to the hot shoe.
 
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Just by way of update

Recieved the RF 602's by post this morning - I didn't even read the instructions - just put the batteries in any pressed fire - all worked well.

Just spent 5 hours up at the local downhill run

Probably my best photo today - still processing quite a few (took about 700 shots), some were no good - some good , some need some processing.

Probably my best shot today

original.jpg


But I did enjoy it today - weather wasn't good - rain and low grey clouds all day long.

7D with 580 ex II - Canon 50mm f1.4 ( actually taken at f1.4!)
 
Nice photo :)
 
Exif says 1/320sec. Did you mean to use that Denis? You've got away with it though, nice shot :thumbs:

Edit: try that second-curtain trick with the optical slave. It'll look great when you use longer shutter speeds.
 
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No, I didn't mean to use 1/320th - this was a bit of a rushed shot - it was under exposed by quite a bit - but I always shoot in raw.

It was a mixed bag today - overall I'm pleased with the remotes, just need to practice more.

Had to use quite high ISO in most of the places - but I'd rather have a slightly grainy shot that was sharp.

Thanks for the comment ref the photo.

Found some good places for shots the next time there's an event on.
 
Forgive me Denis, but you know about the x-sync speed?

It's 1/250sec max on a 7D and usually a bit less with a radio trigger, like 1/200sec due to the slight delay they introduce. However, you've got away with it there because the subject is just above the line where (guessing) the flash has been blocked by the shutter closing.

That situation looks like the perfect opportunity for second curtain sync flash. Drop the speed down to 1/125 or 1/60sec (depending on the speed of the bike) to get some ambinet light in there, then zap it with flash and let that freeze the action. The bike will pop out of the background with a nice dark blur trailing behind.

On the other hand, it's a well nice shot as it is ;)

Apologies if you know all this.
 
Hi Hoppy

Yes, I know about the high synch speed being 1/250th - I was in a rush when I took this image, there's no banding on the original (I initially thought the flash didn't fire - but there's a shadow across the image).

I think this is my best image, and yet it was rushed and seems to be above the max HSS speed also.

The exif data says the fladh didn't fire on any of the images today either - it did though.

Will have to have a re think tomorrow as to what I was doing.

I've loaded most of the better images on my zenfolio site if you're interested

www.denis99.zenfolio.com
 
Some nice captures there Denis.

The Exif maybe says the flash didn't fire because it doesn't know about the remote, but yes it looks like it certainly did. The point about the x-sync speed (which is different to HSS) is that at 1/320sec you will only be getting part of the frame exposed to flash, roughly the top two thirds which as it happens just clears the bike!

Just fire the flash at shutter speeds above and below 1/250sec, via the RF-602, in a room with low light to see exactly where the shutter curtain is cutting in. So you know exactly where you are with your particular camera/trigger. My guess is that you'll get very fractional shadowing at 1/250sec on the bottom of the frame, but that probably won't be noticeable with the kind of stuff you shoot.
 
Denis99 said:
Hi Hoppy

Yes, I know about the high synch speed being 1/250th - I was in a rush when I took this image, there's no banding on the original (I initially thought the flash didn't fire - but there's a shadow across the image).

I think this is my best image, and yet it was rushed and seems to be above the max HSS speed also.

The exif data says the fladh didn't fire on any of the images today either - it did though.

Will have to have a re think tomorrow as to what I was doing.

I've loaded most of the better images on my zenfolio site if you're interested

www.denis99.zenfolio.com
Click to expand...

What happens when you over step the sync speed is it creates an area of the frame which does not get lit by the flash. On the image in question the subject is quite central, so the area that did not get flash will be the bottom (i think, may be top) part of the image, so in some ways it did you a favour. Again this will have happened with the portrait shots, which will have pulled in from the side, but as the subject is central they will still be lit by the flash.

Remember you should be using the flash to freeze the action, not the shutter speed. Even at 1/50th you can get a sharp image if you use the flash correctly.

Ideally you need to be shooting iso 100 and 1/200th, at an aperture to darken the background by about a stop. Then set flash power to suit. This will give you the classic rider popping scenario.
 
HoppyUK said:
Good move Denis :thumbs:

Since you'll probably be wanting to do second curtain sync at some time, which you cannot do remotely without PWs, try this strobist trick.

IMG_4870-1.jpg


It's an optical slave just sat on top of the flash, set to second curtain sync. The slave picks it up and triggers the RF-602 transmitter. Pulling the wide panel out like this ensures you get a reliable trigger, even in bright light with the flash is on low power. I'm sure you could rig up something similar to trigger off your 7D's pop-up.

I got this little optical slave from ColinsFoto. They do a few useful bits and pieces including the elusive Sonia Green optical slave which works with all Canon EX flashes that suffer from the annoying lock-up disease* http://www.colinsfoto.com/Optical_flash_slave/cat43953_47721.aspx

Edit: This lock-up only afflicts certain Canon flashes, and only when the optical slave is attached to the hot shoe.
Click to expand...


Richard,

I've followed that link and just invested in one of those Optical trigger/slave things to mate up to the FR602 .....

I'm gonna give that 'work-around' a go...... see what comes of it..

Nice bit of info there

Cheers

Phil
 
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