PLEASE HELP ME MASTER FLASH.
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david1701
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best way to learn is to screw around. I think I've read strobist 3 times now first was before I started and I understood nothing, then a few months later I understood more, last time I understood more again, but once you've read the techniques it usually takes a few balls ups to get them down and be able to get good shots
bet it was fun though
it might be worth picking up some ebay triggers and trying it manually as a learning experience, might help you understand - though I have never used cls so can't say how good it is (though working manually you can bring in a studio head for key light and use hard modded speedlights as accent lights which is kinda cool (nb only tried this with 1 speedlight and 1 studio head so far)
bet it was fun though
it might be worth picking up some ebay triggers and trying it manually as a learning experience, might help you understand - though I have never used cls so can't say how good it is (though working manually you can bring in a studio head for key light and use hard modded speedlights as accent lights which is kinda cool (nb only tried this with 1 speedlight and 1 studio head so far)
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Flash In The Pan
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CLS can be used manually too and it saves you having to walk over to the flashgun to adjust the power output
Get a softbox or two from Mr Flash in the Pan.
Light modifiers are worth every penny.
Last wedding I got carried away with OCF, a first for me. The results aren't stunning, but definitely made bad light a lot better.
In my very limited experience with OCF it's actually quite simplez.
Take an outdoor portrait:
Underexpose the image a bit to darken the background.
Throw some flash on the subject; then you have two ways to control the amount of light the flash is giving to your picture: lower the flash power, or stop down the aperture. The shutter speed doesn't affect it.
Raise iso for more ambient light if needed.
Ok, so that's about as basic as it gets, but understanding the variables helps it to fall into place.
Get some black card and some tape and make some snoots, that's fun.
Light modifiers are worth every penny.
Last wedding I got carried away with OCF, a first for me. The results aren't stunning, but definitely made bad light a lot better.
In my very limited experience with OCF it's actually quite simplez.
Take an outdoor portrait:
Underexpose the image a bit to darken the background.
Throw some flash on the subject; then you have two ways to control the amount of light the flash is giving to your picture: lower the flash power, or stop down the aperture. The shutter speed doesn't affect it.
Raise iso for more ambient light if needed.
Ok, so that's about as basic as it gets, but understanding the variables helps it to fall into place.
Get some black card and some tape and make some snoots, that's fun.
HoppyUK
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HoppyUK
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CLS can be used manually too and it saves you having to walk over to the flashgun to adjust the power output
FITP, off topic I know, but since you know Nikon.
With CLS, can you do wireless second curtain flash AE, ie with full CLS auto control, and no accessory remotes etc?
You can't with Canon's E-TTLII. Second curtain AE is only possible with the master unit on camera, or hard wired. Not possible with wireless slaves. No big deal I guess, and you can get around it in manual with remote triggers, but can Nikon do it straight out of the box?
Cheers
Flash In The Pan
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FITP, off topic I know, but since you know Nikon.
With CLS, can you do wireless second curtain flash AE, ie with full CLS auto control, and no accessory remotes etc?
You can't with Canon's E-TTLII. Second curtain AE is only possible with the master unit on camera, or hard wired. Not possible with wireless slaves. No big deal I guess, and you can get around it in manual with remote triggers, but can Nikon do it straight out of the box?
Cheers
I think so, still learning CLS, but I'm sure Joe McNally shoots that way...
HoppyUK
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Ah right. Thanks. That's my belief, but based on a process of elimination rather than statement of fact. Joe McNally only makes brief reference to second curtain sync in Hot Shoe Diaries, or maybe I've not read it closely enough. He certainly doesn't use it in preference as a matter of course. So inconclusive there.
TBH I don't know why Canon cannot do it, but Canon can-not for sure. Something to do with the triggering data being sent through one of the E-TTL pins rather than the main firing pin, but having played around with my Canon guns I can't get it to second curtain sync in wireless mode at all, even with a bit of cunning (or so I thought
). Canon has simply disabled it, and while this doesn't seem to matter much, I would just like to know why they have deliberately locked out a strobist feature.Thinking about it just now, if all the E-TTL data including triggering is sent with the pre flash, unless the flash knows the shutter speed, it's snookered. So Nikon CLS slave guns are not only IR wireless, but also regular optical slaves for triggering. Maybe that's how it works, but I still don't know why, or what the upside for Canon is in doing it the way they do
Complicated little monkeys they are. Anyway, maybe there are more important things to worry about
Cheers for your post 
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Top bloke here
No worries mate
First things first, I'm picking up the vibe that the ole theory and written word aren't really doing it for you in the preliminary stages. Lighting 101 on strobist is a chunky resource that holds alot of info but if your still scratching your nugget then another approach at another angle is needed.
All of us learn in different ways, a fact that UK Governing Bodies have an awful amount of trouble realizing
You need some practical, hands on messing, fiddling, making mistakes, learning from mistakes kinda process to familiarize yourself with the do's and don'ts/ goods and bads as opposed to reading up in the initial phases. After going out 'in the field' you can happily return top reading up with a fresh set of eyes and a more acclimatized state of mind.
Am I anywhere near close?
If I am mate, then I would suggest grabbing your SB-900, a light stand, shoot through brollie and find some willing 'subjects' and throwing caution to the wind.
Using one light in various locations at different times of day will help you find your feet. Some things won't work so well, others will blow your head off and make you grin like the chesire cat.
As Hoppy has mentioned:
Keep this in mind and then go fourth and hammer it as you've always done.
You have a remarkable and relentless interest, desire and more importantly, you have creativity and imagination, now it's time to use all these elements with getting your head around flash. The more you use it, the more you will become acclimatized to the mechanics and functionality.
Aim to take a bunch of portraits per week (am I pushin it?
), post the results and get some feedback, I'm off to Estonia so if you don't mind bud, PM me the links to the posts? I'll happily give you my honest thoughts as I'm sure that many others members will also.How's that sound?
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No worries mate
First things first, I'm picking up the vibe that the ole theory and written word aren't really doing it for you in the preliminary stages. Lighting 101 on strobist is a chunky resource that holds alot of info but if your still scratching your nugget then another approach at another angle is needed.
All of us learn in different ways, a fact that UK Governing Bodies have an awful amount of trouble realizing
You need some practical, hands on messing, fiddling, making mistakes, learning from mistakes kinda process to familiarize yourself with the do's and don'ts/ goods and bads as opposed to reading up in the initial phases. After going out 'in the field' you can happily return top reading up with a fresh set of eyes and a more acclimatized state of mind.
Am I anywhere near close?
Spot on
I never enjoy learning from a book, or "reading HOW it's done". Trial and error, with some helpful hints, tips and answers to specific requests I find is always better for me. I am going to watch all the DVD's etc, and hope they open my mind a little.If I am mate, then I would suggest grabbing your SB-900, a light stand, shoot through brollie and find some willing 'subjects' and throwing caution to the wind.
Are there any specific brollies and stands you would recommmend based on your experience?
Using one light in various locations at different times of day will help you find your feet. Some things won't work so well, others will blow your head off and make you grin like the chesire cat.
As Hoppy has mentioned:
Keep this in mind and then go fourth and hammer it as you've always done.
You have a remarkable and relentless interest, desire and more importantly, you have creativity and imagination, now it's time to use all these elements with getting your head around flash. The more you use it, the more you will become acclimatized to the mechanics and functionality.
Aim to take a bunch of portraits per week (am I pushin it?
How's that sound?
I have a portrait shoot of a family and 2 month old baby today. In lovely gardens. I was relying on natural light as I am still unsure as to how I can improve the shots with flash.
Thanks for taking the time mate.
Gary.
Ah right. Thanks. That's my belief, but based on a process of elimination rather than statement of fact. Joe McNally only makes brief reference to second curtain sync in Hot Shoe Diaries, or maybe I've not read it closely enough. He certainly doesn't use it in preference as a matter of course. So inconclusive there.
TBH I don't know why Canon cannot do it, but Canon can-not for sure. Something to do with the triggering data being sent through one of the E-TTL pins rather than the main firing pin, but having played around with my Canon guns I can't get it to second curtain sync in wireless mode at all, even with a bit of cunning (or so I thought
Thinking about it just now, if all the E-TTL data including triggering is sent with the pre flash, unless the flash knows the shutter speed, it's snookered. So Nikon CLS slave guns are not only IR wireless, but also regular optical slaves for triggering. Maybe that's how it works, but I still don't know why, or what the upside for Canon is in doing it the way they do
Anyway, maybe there are more important things to worry about
Hoppy, I'm afraid I don't know the technical reasons behind it but you are correct that Canon disables 2nd curtain sync when the flash is set to master whereas Nikon allows this functionality.
I have Canon gear and have had a play around with this but there are only two ways I have achieved 2nd curtain sync and both are rather cumbersome:
1) Optical slaves attached to each off camera flash (Each flash in manual mode and NOT set to slave). On camera flash in manual mode (to disable the ETTL pre-flash) and NOT set to master (to allow 2nd curtain sync to be selected).
Take a photograph as normal and the flash from the camera triggers the off camera flashes via the optical slaves. Works reasonably well indoors but requires line of sight. Certainly not 100% reliable.
2) To get round the line of sight issue in method 1, I attached an optical slave to a radio trigger (Cheap cactus job). I then attached this to the on camera flash using velcro so that the optical slave was directly in front of the flash head. I attached radio receivers to each off camera flash as normal. Again, the on camera flash was set to manual, NOT master and 2nd curtain sync was enabled. The off camera flashes were also manual (I.e. NOT slave).
Take a photograph as normal and the flash from the camera is "seen" by the optical slave which in turns fires the radio trigger. The radio receivers then fire the off camera flashes. The only problems I have had with this method are caused by the cheap radio triggers / receivers rather than the method itself.
Something I haven't tried is testing if the pc sync socket (either in the camera body or the 580EXII) transmits the fire signal at the end of the exposure when the flash is in 2nd curtain sync mode. This would remove the need for an optical trigger but would obviously require a pc sync cable. It may well not work though.
Cheers.
Tyke Tiler
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Spot on
No problim mate. Some times, it's better to show oneself than to be told how to do something.
I'm like this in many ways, I have to see what's crap and what doesn't work before I can churn out anything of interest to myself.
I can't remember who said it but it went a little something like this:
'Watching crap movies helps to make better ones'
As long as we can understand why things are crap, we can put the effort in to make them better
I like the Wescott collapsibles, they are a silver reflector and a shoot through in one, the black cover is removable if a little finnicky but well worth the dough. I got mine from MPEX in the states. Pretty much the larger the brollie the softer the light.
My pleasure bud. Looking forward to eyeballin the results. I wish all the best mate.
Above all, enjoy, have fun and keep communicating with your subjects, it's easy to get wrapped up in the lighting process, keep chatting and acting silly
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Thanks again for taking the time
Does the brolly have it's own stand or do I need to attach it to something? I presume the light stand?
Gary.
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Looking a bit closer to home Tomas:
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/AU3060/
Seems to do a similar thing to the Wescott? Much easier for me to get down and collect these things too.
Gary.
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/AU3060/
Seems to do a similar thing to the Wescott? Much easier for me to get down and collect these things too.
Gary.
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Thanks again for taking the time
Does the brolly have it's own stand or do I need to attach it to something? I presume the light stand?
Gary.
They look fine and dandy, a 60 incher too, I need to get me one of those!, I have only 40"
Grab a swivel too, this attaches to the stand and allows the umbrella to be mounted.
Umbrella Swivel / Umbrella Bracket
You may also need a 'Cold shoe', this attaches to the top of the swivel and thats the nugget that your flash attaches too, to be fair though, the best 'cold shoe' for SB-800's or 900's is the large flat plastic plate/stand that came with your flash, this supports the Nikon locking shoe. Any other cold shoes will most likely result in a flash hitting the deck.
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They look fine and dandy, a 60 incher too, I need to get me one of those!, I have only 40"
Grab a swivel too, this attaches to the stand and allows the umbrella to be mounted.
Umbrella Swivel / Umbrella Bracket
You may also need a 'Cold shoe', this attaches to the top of the swivel and thats the nugget that your flash attaches too, to be fair though, the best 'cold shoe' for SB-800's or 900's is the large flat plastic plate/stand that came with your flash, this supports the Nikon locking shoe. Any other cold shoes will most likely result in a flash hitting the deck.
Cheers matey, brolly ordered. I am collecting it tomorrow, and will try and grab a light stand at the same time. Looking forward to having a play!
Gary.
photon
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The strobist influence has just about killed the supply of heavier stands on eBay, but the bog standard lighter ones weigh a bit over a kilo and you'll see them rated at 2.5kg capacity. The heavier ones are taller, spring or air damped, have better clamps, weigh 2kg and are rated at 6kg capacity. Whatever you get, when it's used with a modifier the slightest gust of wind is a potential danger, so use an assistant and/or pegs, sandbags, water bottles etc.
UK eBay seller photoskill sometimes has the convertible silver/white reflector/shoot-through brollies.
UK eBay seller photoskill sometimes has the convertible silver/white reflector/shoot-through brollies.
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HoppyUK
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Thanks Keith
Don't want to take this thread off topic any further, but I think hard wiring would work. Can't say I can be bothered to try it though
HoppyUK
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Easy mate. A bit of fill flash could work really well with that kind of subject.
Back them against the light, with you facing it. You can use direct on-camera flash for this, but it would look even better with a nice big softbox or brolly and you'll get a lovely catch-light in the eyes.
Set it up and take a few test pics, keep turning the flash down until it's invisible, then wind it up just a notch or two, maybe half a stop.
If the flash is not obvious to non photographers, you've got the ambient balance right. You'll get lovely bright faces with highlighted hair. Your subject's will also have a more relaxed expression from not squinting into the sun
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OK. The calumet site is crap, the light stands don't appear to indicate weight ratings
Can somene shed any light (see what I did there?), and basically pick a good one for me? I hate spending money on things I perceive to be "secondary" to the main task at hand. It's just a bloody big stick!
Gary.
Can somene shed any light (see what I did there?
), and basically pick a good one for me? I hate spending money on things I perceive to be "secondary" to the main task at hand. It's just a bloody big stick!Gary.
Flash In The Pan
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What are you planning to put on the lightstands? Studio lights, or speedlights?
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Those big brollies and speedlights. Perhaps one day studio lights? The trouble is I don't really know wtf I am doing. I am buying stuff based on recommendations from you guys in the know.
Gary.
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Guys,
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=155010
I used 3 strobes & TTL, all set at MINUS 3 power. SB900 left pointing at the side of tripod, SB600 right pointing at other side of tripod, and further away. SB900 on camera pointing directly at tripod. Manual 250/s, f8 I think. All strobes had the NIKON plastic cover / small diffuser on.
Any hints or tips on what I should have done differently? How can I take the shot to the next level? Maybe have a nice patterned abstract background, with a nice colour gel or something?
Gary.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=155010
I used 3 strobes & TTL, all set at MINUS 3 power. SB900 left pointing at the side of tripod, SB600 right pointing at other side of tripod, and further away. SB900 on camera pointing directly at tripod. Manual 250/s, f8 I think. All strobes had the NIKON plastic cover / small diffuser on.
Any hints or tips on what I should have done differently? How can I take the shot to the next level? Maybe have a nice patterned abstract background, with a nice colour gel or something?
Gary.
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Heck no, I haven't a CLUE what I am doing yet!
To black the background, I turned all the flashes off, and went into manual mode. I then selected a shutter speed and aperture combo that resulted in no background (250/s is the fastest shutter I can do with flash attached, I think there is an override but dunno how and why to use). So, with my camera recording ZERO ambiant light, all I had to do was ensure the flash was lighting the area I wanted to photograph, in this case the tripod head. I wanted it subtle and moody / mysterious. I think I failed at that, but I did get the darkness I wanted.
Some of the backdrop DID in fact light up a tiny bit due to flash spill, but I simply PP'd it out which was a doddle as 90% of it was black. I read that by using something called "FLAGS" which attached to the flash gun and stop light going in a certain direction, that background spill can be eliminated.
Still, I really have very little knowledge of the entire flash system, just looking forward to learning.
Gary
Flash In The Pan
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Lightstands....Manfrotto 001b for speedlights, they fold down to nothing, about £45 each
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You reckon they will also take the weight of a 60" shoot thru and reflective brolly?
Gary.
HoppyUK
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It's hard to say without being there and doing it, so this is pure guesswork. When you're lighting still life, which is what this is, working with studio flash and modelling lights makes things a lot easier. Thinking about it, if you want to learn lighting, I would start with studio units just so that you can see what happens every time you move a light or change a reflector. It will speed up the process no end. Then when you've got some set ups you like, try and replicate them with the strobist kit. If that works okay, you can just transport both the kit and the techniques straight outdoors, always bearing in mind the fill-in effect you inevitably get from walls/ceiling from working indoors which makes the same lights look a bit 'harder' outdoors.
The way to make a dark subject stand out from a black backgound is usually to back-light it - gives it a bright outline. As it is, you've lost the legs and black parts of the tripod.
I would probably go for a big soft main front light - but then I always do - and position white reflectors (blue might look sexy
) either side of the tripod to pick up on the stainless steel. When using reflectors it's handy to remind yourself that the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflectance, ie if you shine a light at 60degs against a flat reflector, the light will bounce off at 60degs, and obviously the reverse also applies.Black backgounds are usually easy. Use fastest x-sync to minimise ambient as you have done (high-speed sync will not help with this as it also affects ambient*). Black velvet is quite black for starters so it's handy to have some of that around, and if you move any background far enough away it goes black anyway, provided ambient is much lower than the flash, which it should be - if not, turn the flash up. Shading background from the main light will also help obviously, but that might be hard here.
For this simple subject which doesn't have much depth, here I would just use the inverse square law, which means that light falls away rapidly with distance (double the distance, quarter the intensity). If you move the flash as close as possible to the subject then you will emphasise this, often without having to do anything at all about the background. Eg if you could get the front light one foot from the subject, then only three feet further behind it the light would already be down by four stops. That's enough to make even a light background go very dark, so no problem with black. For checking this kind of thing, and lighting ratios etc, a flash meter is a great help. (Doesn't that fancy meter you got recently do flash? If not, £100 buys a pretty good one.)
HTH
Edit: * High speed flash effectively becomes ambient, but the real reason you don't want to use it is because it reduces power and you can get a higher f/number without it.
Have to agree here, they take the weight of microphones and parabolic reflector as well. Fairly stable except in high winds !!! Really good stands. Manfrotto probably list weights and stuff in their catalogue but these came highly recommended to me.
See page 70 www.speedgraphic.co.uk catalogue 5001b nano stand. Lightweight (0.93kg)as well.1.5kg max load.
C