PLEASE HELP ME MASTER FLASH.

EdinburghGary

EdinburghGary

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Guys,

I am about to make a commitment in an effort to learn how to perfect the use of flash - something I think will benefit me hugely, especially from a business point of view (ie, it's essential!).

I have zero knowledge / skill, and have been completely impatient when trying to learn. No more, I MUST master it, and quick.

My commitment is as follows! Ignoring the up coming lake district meet, I will take ZERO photos unless said photos use OFF CAMERA FLASH in one way or another. I absolutely mean this, NO photos at all. I will get cold turkey very quickly, and the only solution is to master this flash malarkey. I need your help too! :D


In terms of flash, I currently own:

1 x SB 900
1 x SB 600
1 x SB 80

I only have one plastic hot shoe stand (which allows the flash to be placed on a table etc), and I have ZERO other flash related items.

Now, let's presume for now I want to stick with flashguns. In a ZERO compromise situation, I presume I would drop the SB600 and SB80DX from the kit, and replace with an additional two 900's? Happy to do this if it will make learning MUCH easier. If however I can get by without the spend, I will.

Once I have all the kit required (whether I purchase new stuff or keep what I have), I would then like to, one photo at a time, learn the tips, tricks and techniques associated with this type of photography.

In terms of practice subjects, I have two loyal dogs, a loving wife, and a few pals! :)

Now, something very cool. If ONE of the flash experts on the forum were able to spend time helping me, properly, on a 1 to 1 basis, I mean specifically helping me with very specific requests - then I will gladly do something in return for you (if I can!!). A week around Scotland in the motorhome, free of charge - just me and you? Accommodation in Edinburgh shouddl you and a partner want to visit, I have a guest room which I would be more than happy to offer Free of Charge. You will get some home cooked meals, and LOTS of take aways :D Beers etc. I dunno. If I can do something in return, I will.

So - who can help me nail this, and when can we start? :D If anyone utters the word "Strobist.com" I will shoot them :D

Gary.
 
STROBIST! Ducks!!

lol, bring your gear to the lakes and we can have some off camera flash fun too if you like :)

Oh and I've got a little something for ya!
 
you had a look at FITP thread in for sale section, he has some light modifiers going pretty cheap?

i think you may need some stands for the lights as well. 7 day shop seem quite cheap for these, but not the best quality.

i assume your planning onusing the nikon CLS system for triggering?
 
fletch5 said:
you had a look at FITP thread in for sale section, he has some light modifiers going pretty cheap?

i think you may need some stands for the lights as well. 7 day shop seem quite cheap for these, but not the best quality.

i assume your planning onusing the nikon CLS system for triggering?
Click to expand...

Hya,

Light Modifier? No idea what it does (ok it modifies light :D), but how and why, haven't a clue.

The light stands. Will my "hot shoe" electrical thingy, connect to them directly? I have lost the "stands" which came with the cameras.

And yes, I guess it makes sense to stick to the Nikon CLS system.

Gary.
 
Guys,

Quicky for you. I am having a PRACTICE shoot this evening, with the aim of learning three things. (The real deal is tomorrow morning! :D)

1: Shooting a standard, run of the mill, corporate headshot. Both on white and black, backgrounds.

2: Shooting an "Edgier" portrait, something which emphasises the shadows, and creates the "Tyke Tyler" effect so to speak. Almost looks like HDR Via flash, a 3D pop on the subject too I guess. Struggling to think of a good way to describe this.

3: Shooting a relaxed portrait at a setting. Member of staff, sitting by their PC, on the phone etc.

I haven't a clue how to light for any of the above. Number 1 I think I could probably manage, the 2nd though has me perplexed.

Do I need to go buy anything locally which can help?

Gary.
 
I can't do this without mentioning the "S" word mate - but the Strobist DVD set is a really good watch imho. It's 8 or 9 DVD's, so quite a lot to get through, but they cover all the basics (including kit, triggers, modifiers etc,) and they have some handy real-world examples. Might take a day to watch them, but it'll be time very well spent if you want a crash course to get you going!

I'll bung my copy in the post to you if you like? - it'll save you about a £100 that you'll no doubt want to spend on Pocket Wizards before the week is out...!! :thumbs::D

Ian

Edit: Just seen the "real deal" is tomorrow - doh! Offer stands if you want it though! ;-)
 
Sorry more questions!

This device apparently controls Nikon flashes remotely:
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/355-206P/

So it will allow me to I presume have ALL my flashes off camera?

It's very close to the actual price of a second SB-900 though. Does the SB-900 do everything it does? As well as offering the benefit of a camera mounted light / or off camera light using a cord...?

Gary.
 
light modifiers a re things like umbrellas, softboxes, stofens, snoots etc...

basically the umbrellas and softboxes make the light larger so softer shadows(mostly more flattering). the Hotshoe, the electrical thingy can connect to the umbrella adaptors or the softboxes which will then fit to a standard lighting stand(like a tripod). you mentioned you had a few tripods, i dont know whether they are all dead or not yet, but manfrotto do a spigot to convert your camera tripod into a lighting stand.
 
I'll be interested in seeing tomorrows shoot without lighting modifiers :eek: Without a softbox/brolly you will get very harsh lighting, unless you bounce of course!

I can only echo about the Strobist DVDs, even if it's not the approach you want, they are incredibly informative, and will give you the grounding to experiment and develop your style.

1) Will require ideally a flash each side of the subject, one providing a little more light than the other, and one blowing the white background out (should be fine with just the 2 for the black background). Ideally the light would be softened with brolly/softbox

2) This sounds like some experimenting shall be in order!

3) Bounced flash off the ceiling should be ok for this, maybe something to reflect a little light up into shadowed areas!

Good luck though, I'm sure you'll pull it off :)
 
The NikonCLS will work from the pop up flash if i remember correctly.
 
fletch5 said:
light modifiers a re things like umbrellas, softboxes, stofens, snoots etc...

basically the umbrellas and softboxes make the light larger so softer shadows(mostly more flattering). the Hotshoe, the electrical thingy can connect to the umbrella adaptors or the softboxes which will then fit to a standard lighting stand(like a tripod). you mentioned you had a few tripods, i dont know whether they are all dead or not yet, but manfrotto do a spigot to convert your camera tripod into a lighting stand.
Click to expand...

Oh cool. Well the 900 has a diffuser, and we also have some snoots I think.

Gary.
 
Gary

An su800 would work fine with your 600 and 900 not to sure about the 80.

You might be better off with getting a set of pocket wizards to be honest mate the su800 would be ok in the begining but when you going with all this I think you will be looking at getting pocket wizards and some soft boxes any way to ensure you get the results you are after.

Regards

nigel
 
Hi Gary,

I am in exactly the same position as you and have recently got the Strobist DVD set, just watched the first couple and for someone who knew nothing about flash it is truly excellent
 
irw1 said:
I can't do this without mentioning the "S" word mate - but the Strobist DVD set is a really good watch imho. It's 8 or 9 DVD's, so quite a lot to get through, but they cover all the basics (including kit, triggers, modifiers etc,) and they have some handy real-world examples. Might take a day to watch them, but it'll be time very well spent if you want a crash course to get you going!

I'll bung my copy in the post to you if you like? - it'll save you about a £100 that you'll no doubt want to spend on Pocket Wizards before the week is out...!! :thumbs::D

Ian
Click to expand...
Ian,

If Gary doesn't take you up on this offer or when he has finished with the DVDs then I would love to have a watch of them. I only have the 1 SB800 and the pop up flashes on my D300 and D80 but I would love to learn more about lighting and if that means investing in another flash and a couple of softboxes then I'll start saving. I'd prefer to learn what I'm going to do with it all before I invest though.
 
another vote for strobist DVD set it's a good place to start learning what it all means, the onelight DVDs are good too. I have my notes from the Strobist DVD on google docs, I'll make it 'slightly' more readable before posting a link.
 
I'm on a tight schedule so rather read and filter stuff out I'll just say what I need to say:

Say all you have is a flashgun and your camera, we'll start from scratch.

You need a way to let your flashgun know the camera wants it to fire. There are many ways to do this:
- A ttl lead - connects to the hotshoe of both devices but really only useful in close quarters
- Cactus V4 triggers - also known as ebay radio triggers. Bargain price but not exactly reliable.
- Elinchrom Skyports - You'll need a universal kit which comes with one transmitter and one receiver, and then you'll need to buy another receiver for each flashgun you have.
- Pocketwizards - the best of the set, priciest, but does pretty much what the skyports do

Once you have got all that sorted, you'll need to use something to stick the flashguns on.
Cheap tripods are awesome as you can change the height, and also tilt the flashgun down, and usually they just screw straight onto the QR plate. Regular lightstands usually don't have any form of head on them so you can't tilt down. This can be fixed by going into your local jessops and buying one of their cheapy ball heads for £11 and fitting it to the top of the light stand.

If you want a lightstand, 7dayshop are doing them for fairly cheap here

Obviously you'll need a lightstand/tripod for each flashgun.

Pros of each:
Lightstand
-lighter than the tripod
-extends a lot higher than the tripod

Tripod
-Sturdier than the lightstand
-Can pan/tilt easier than the lightstand

Once you've got your stuff sorted you may need light modifiers.

The basics:
-Snoot - focuses light on a small area
-Softbox - spreads light evenly on a subject
-Shoot through umbrella - similar to a softbox
-Reflective umbrella - lights up a larger area

Those are not entirely necessary.

Once you've got your kit sorted it is literally trial and error.

You'll figure out what works by practising, but it is a lot of practise.

No doubt someone has recommended books/dvds on here, those are your best bet.
 
EdinburghGary said:
OK. 2 x SB 900's, 1 x SB 600 and 1 x SB80DX!

Now, how do I make it all work? :D

Gary.
Click to expand...

simplest way, mount a SB900 on your camera, use this as the MASTER, then set the other SB900 and SB600 as REMOTE.

The SB900 has a switch for the REMOTE but the SB600 will need to be switched to remote through a menu (refer to the instruction manual).

You will need to setup 2 groups.

Group A - SB900
Group B - SB600

make sure the group on the flashgun match's the group on the camera, then your essentially there.

You''l understand the group setting as soon as you put them in remote mode.
 
Just a quick one since I'm rushing out - will be back later to say more!

You're going to want a trigger system to fire those flashes so have a look at Cactus v4 (cheap) or PocketWizards (v.expensive) - basically they're wireless trigger systems that fit your hotshoe and then plugin to the flash units.

You'll need some lighting stands since you'll need to get your flashes up above the subjects most of the time - check of 7dayshop for these.

You'll also need some flash brackets/umbrella holders - look for something that has plenty of adjustment. These sit between the stands and the flashes.

You'll want some light modifiers to diffuse/alter the light - shoot-thru umbrellas, silver backed umbrellas & softboxes are all good ways to get a nice soft light that wraps around the subject. Snoots, grids etc control the way the light falls and are good to highlight specific areas.

Put it all together and start experimenting!

Remember that the exposure time will really only control the amount of ambient light you capture and that the aperture & flash power will be what really affects your lighting.
 
Ok this is what I have and what I use it for

D3
2 x SB-900
SU-800
3 x Pockets wizards

If i'm doing fashion portrait stuff inside I used the TTL system on AP mode with the SU-800 firing the SB-900's, Like Joe Mcnally I let the Camera do the hard work.

Outside I goto manual mode with the pocket wizards (they dont do iTTL) because the infra-red on SU-800 sucks big time outside.

Watch the Stobish DVD which will help you understand manual flash
and watch the Creative lighting DVD with Joe Mcnally for Nikon TTL creative lighting system.

Its one of them things you have to practice and is definitely something you have to master as it sounds easy on paper but getting it right is a whole new ball game. I'm often left scratching my head wondering why it not giving me the results I want.
 
This is real photography Gary :)

You need to know about light and how it works, because you have to create all of it. In a studio, you start with nothing and build it up. You need to get to grips with this, as well as the technical setting up softening/shaping, balancing and triggering. Your Nikon system will do the balancing and triggering automatically pretty much by itself, and right now I would probably leave it to it. But it cannot 'shape' or 'modify' the light for you, nor can it position the flashes. I would also forget about high-speed sync and second curtain flash etc for a while, brilliant techniques though they are.

Some things to bear in mind:

1) Less is more. We are used to seeing things illuminated by just one main light, the sun, and multiple lights look unnatural as well as being hard to control. You can do a heck of a lot just with one light and a reflector. Additional lights should be for fill-in or effect lights, not competing with the main light and casting conflicting shadows.
2) Bigger is better. Soft light is usually better, and the bigger the light source, the softer it becomes. Also, the closer the light, the bigger it becomes relative to the subject. Bright sun is harsh directional light, casting strong shadows. Overcast with cloud is soft, almost shadowless. Naked flash light is a small light source, like direct sunlight, and you have to soften it with with umbrellas and softboxes, making it effectively bigger. Bouncing it off the ceiling does the same thing.
3) The Inverse Square Law rules everything. That is, double the distance is one quarter the intensity, ie move a light back from 5ft to 10ft, and you have lost two stops; but move it foward to 2.5ft and you have gained two stops (four stops range from 2.5ft to 10ft). This explains why flash exposures are so distance dependent, and why subjects close to the flash can be way over exposed and those just a few feet further away almost black. If you try and fight the ISL, you will lose, but if you learn to work with it and you'll get along just fine.

A crash course is good, but you will need to practise this stuff. It's an endless learning experience. Get a copy of Joe McNally's The Hot Shoe Diaries which is fast becoming the stobist's bible. It's a great read and stuffed with practical info and really inspirational pictures, and he also uses Nikon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hot-Shoe-Di...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249318163&sr=1-1
 
Well,

Nothing like throwing yourself in at the deep end, is there Gary?

I would suggest that you may need to bribe/drug the missus and get her to model for you tonight. You are going to need a bit of practise with the nikon CLS if you are going to make it work for you on the day. If you need to know anything, give me a call. I used to use it for work occasionally.

Oh, and take lots of batteries. More than you think you'll ever need. The pre-flash from the CLS and potentially using the flashes on close to full power can burn through a set of batteries in next to no time.

Good luck mate. I'm sure you'll make it work whatever.
 
Just got your message mate,
I'll have t'be back to you on this one, we've just got back from a trip out in the sticks, covered in mozzie bites and absolutely knackered!

You can be rest assured though bud, I'll help out in every way I can :thumbs:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Just got your message mate,
I'll have t'be back to you on this one, we've just got back from a trip out in the sticks, covered in mozzie bites and absolutely knackered!

You can be rest assured though bud, I'll help out in every way I can :thumbs:
Click to expand...

^^^ :thumbs:

Don't mean to disturb your well earned rest Thomas, but you are probably best placed to help out Gary here :)
 
Gary,just chuck loads of money at it,you seem to do that for all other areas of photography............;)
 
fracster said:
Gary,just chuck loads of money at it,you seem to do that for all other areas of photography............;)
Click to expand...

Flash In The Pan said:
That would be my advice too, you need, let's see...oh a softbox and some triggers and......:naughty: :lol:
Click to expand...



If only it were that simple guys ;)

I think good old fashioned determination is my friend here :)

Gary.
 
As some folks have said, there are a few main areas you need to look at before going in at the deep end.

1 - How am i mounting my flashes? Lightstands are good as they are dedicated to the job, you can £10 jobbies from 7dayshop or go for Manfroto or Bogens for more money. Use umbrella adaptors to mount them, these will allow you to tilt your flash backwards and forwards.

2 - How am i triggering said flashes? Nikon uses CLS (bloody lazy Canon). This system uses a master flash on the camera, to tell the other slave flashes what to do. It is very succesful from what i have read, and works with the Nikon TTL. You can use a commander unit to, a bit like the infrared unit for Canon, not too sure on these as i have never tried them. Then there are ETTL cords, these are good if you don't want to move around, but become limiting for when you do. Finally, radio triggers. PW's are the daddy, but there are cheaper alternatives. Skyports are raved about by one certain member here:lol: Cybersyncs from Alien Bees are also a good one, but you have to ship them from the US. Of the ebay triggers, the CTR-301's are proving the best. Good range, reliable and pretty sturdy.

3 - How do i want my light to look? You can go basic and just hit everything with hard, unmodified light, straight from the flash. This has it's place, so don't write it off. Then there are Modifiers. Umbrellas and Softbox's distribute the light in an even, soft pattern. With umbrellas there are a couple of different types, shoot through, and reflective. Snoot's are usually tubes of material designed to tighten the light out of the flash into a direct beam, think of a laser pen. Grids are used to concentrate the beam of light, and diffuse it slightly by splitting it into smaller parts. Flags will block the light from a certain portion of the photo, as will barndoors. Cookies, are something you stick infront of the flash to create a pattern eg. a cheese plant about a foot or so away will give you a shadow on your picture thus creating a pattern. Beauty dishes are a system of bouncing the light off a small mirror before diffusing it through a large dish, these give soft edged light which makes them great for portrait shoots. Ring lights are exactly as they say, light in a ring, good for macro shots, but also great for portraits as you get the catchlight in people's eyes. There are hundreds of options on how to modify your light, so work out how you want it to look before spending loads on modifiers.

There are books and videos/dvd's that you can get to teach you the techniques of using off camera flash. But the best method is the - try and try again style. Start small with a mini studio box maybe, this can be made cheap from a crisp box panelled with A4 white paper. This is great for practicing and rainy day stuff. It will teach you about how to control the power levels etc. Then try some outdoor stuff, maybe a car or bike, move the flashes around, see what different effects you get. Then once you are confident try a portrait or two. The uses for off camera flash are endless, and you will start to notice how your pics look better with the different uses. The first thing i noticed was how it made your pictures more 3D if you get me, the subject seemed to stand out from the background more, because the light wrapping around it, seperated it from the other elements in the picture.

Have fun with your flashes, and don't be dragged into the whole, more expensive must be better game. I use £10 stands, flashes that are from the 80's that came for no more than £15 from ebay. I use a lot of DIY moddifiers, snoots, a softbox etc. I use ebay triggers, the CTR's i mentioned and i seem to get the results i'm looking for. Hope this helps, and i hope you haven't gone to sleep:lol: Darren:thumbs:
 
While all this strobist stuff with hand flashes is brilliant for location work, if you have access to mains power then a couple of studio lights, three at the most, is usually a rather better and easier way of going about it. £400-£600 buys a huge amount of powerful kit these days, with modelling lights. The battery powered Bowens Traveller is highly rated, if you do want to take it outdoors (expensive).

As a starting point for portraits, I would like mains flash with a BIG softbox on a boom. Reflector for fill in. Add one effect light, and maybe a third for the background. That's it. No more wanted or needed. Ever.

All this talk about light shapers and cookies and gobos is little more than trendy jargon. Good lighting is simple and basic, and that has not changed just because Nikon came up with CLS. One main light basically does the job - hard or soft, you choose. Then you add light (or take away light) in other areas to suit.

My point about studio flash with decently powered modelling lights is that when you can see all this happening as you move lights around and change reflectors, a lot of the hype and mystique vanishes. It's just light. Simple and basic.

This guy, Jason Cole (posts now again in the Glamour section here, seems like a really decent bloke - for an Aussie :D ) uses studio flash on location. He basically takes a massive studio softbox to the beach, balances it with the daylight, and that's it. I guess a pretty model helps. Lots of stuff on his website. Scroll down a few images here: http://www.jasoncolephotography.com...=Featured_Models&id=135&page=m_featured_model
 
Guys,

That's todays shoot done, just need to process. Fingers crossed that we nailed it!! :D

With regards to flash usage:

For the standard corporate headshots, I used 1 x SB900 to blow the background, and bounced a camera mounted SB 900 off the ceiling. Kept it simple, hopefully the shots will be good enough.

For a more creative shot, we tried hiding an SB900 behind a TV set, and lit the back wall. The light was split in two by a clock face which was cool. Again bounced the SB 900 off the ceiling.

If they agree, I will post some for C&C. We had a good time, and if we can get 4 or 5 of these a month, kit will be paid for, over and over and over again.

Gary.
 
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