Pigeon feeding in city centres.

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ST4 said:
On my walk into Glasgow city centres I frequently come accross an old woman that throws bird feed down on Suchiehall street to feed pidgeons. The problem is they all flock round and I nearly got clobbered on the head by a low flying one.

I nearly went up to her to give her a piece of my mind to explain she's encouraging airborne vermin and being a nuisance to the public as they all fly low to get to the feed she puts down and they can hit/injure people.

However before I approach the menace I need to be aware of a few things.

Does putting bird feed on the pavement be classed as littering as she could be acting illegally.

Are pidgeons vermin? I see them as vermin.

Would a council condone such things.

Would I best to contact the police or council first to put a complaint in?
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Sauchiehall St is a wide pedestrian area, so why don't you give the woman and pigeons a wide berth by walking down the other side of the street?
I know that it's your right to choose which side of the street to walk down, but is this old lady really causing you so much grief and worry?
Look at what's going on in the world, and get a grip on reality before you end up having a heart attack.
 
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Yv said:
Steve, quite seriously, try talking to her, perhaps find out WHY she feeds them there and not in the park or at least away from busy thoroughfares. Approach the problem with a little humanity as well as with the end game of getting a result that is satisfactory to everyone. Pigeons are indeed classed as vermin and do cause problems especially when in great numbers, but an old lady feeding them might not be aware of this for a start. You never know, a friendly approach might get you further than using a sledge hammer to crack a nut and who knows, you might just make yourself a friend too.
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I wasn't going to be rude. It's been going on for months now. She isn't the only one either.

I've meant to go up and ask but with all the low flying birds it's a bit tricky. Yesterday was the final straw, I had to duck ortherwise lose my eye. I'm going to be writing to the council and police Scotland later
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Sauchiehall St is a wide pedestrian area, so why don't you give the woman and pigeons a wide berth by walking down the other side of the street?
I know that it's your right to choose which side of the street to walk down, but is this old lady really causing you so much grief and worry?
Look at what's going on in the world, and get a grip on reality before you end up having a heart attack.
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She puts the feed down near the middle and the fly in left/right/centre.

The issues unavoidable and it cannot just be me who it annoys given how busy a street it is
 
@ST4 Can you take a camera and get some shots of her? It will help your case and also post them here for us to see.


I can't help think of Djck Darstardly in Catch the Pigeon.
"Drat. Drat. And double Drat! "
dastardlyandmuttley_L08.jpg
 
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ST4 said:
She puts the feed down near the middle and the fly in left/right/centre.

The issues unavoidable and it cannot just be me who it annoys given how busy a street it is
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Why can't you walk down either side next to the shops? They can't fly into you then.
 
"Joe Banks, 82 years young has come to this pond every day for the past 17 years, to feed the ducks. But last month, Joe made a discovery... the ducks... were gone! Some say the ducks went to Canada, others say Toronto. And some people say, that Joe used to sit down there, near those ducks. But it could be, that there is just no room in this modern world, for an old man... and his ducks.
I'm Bart Simpson! "

http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Girly_Edition/Quotes
 
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I see that there are still a few moths to a flame posts :rolleyes:

Hugh Jarse said:
and denying the birds window ledges to land on with caustic pastes applied to them. The pigeons adapted to mutilated feet without claws. .
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I'd agree with most of your post, except that
there are no legal use caustic pastes for deterrents.
And no professional pest control company would ever consider
using something like that anyway.

The gels are slippery and slightly tacky, making the
perching surface "hostile".
"Fire gel" is purely a visual dettrent
The deformed feet / claws are due to years of
perching on unsuitable surfaces,
Pigeons are "Perchers" that is they evolved to rest in branches, wrapping their feet around them.
not perching on flat surfaces.

For example, have you ever wondered with birds of prey,
why some are displayed on a block and some sit on a bow perch?
Peregrines ( and other longwings) nest on rock ledges,
They rest their feet "flat and open"
Harris hawks (And other hawks) sit it trees etc. They wrap they feet around their perch.

Prolonged use of the wrong perching surface causes tendon damage bumble foot ( deformed swolen feet) and claw / toe damage.

There are also other environmental issue that can also
affect the feet, such as "string foot"
 
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I don't want to imagine the series of tragic events that would have to take place for my life to be set on a course which ended with me caring about city pigeons. Truly bleak.
 
I remember feeding the pigeons in Trafalgar Square when I was a kid too, and they were regarded as a bit of a feature then. H V Morton wrote about them in the 1920s, and reckoned they were descended from the birds wealthy people bred for food in dovecots centuries ago, but I suppose they're just attracted by easy pickings now.

I live in the country when I'm in the UK, and they're really not a problem. The main controversy is about red kites which quite a lot of people think have become a pest and should be culled.
 
MartynK said:
The main controversy is about red kites which quite a lot of people think have become a pest and should be culled.
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I know a couple of people that were directly involved in the sourcing and
re-introduction programme in the Bledlow ridge area.

Within 10 years of the seeding,
they were admitting that they were "more successful" than they had imaged ;)
Yes the whispers are true, as to whether or not it'll happen,
remains to be seen ( I suspect not for various reasons)

But again, People loved to see them initially,
and one local butcher was apparently selling day old chick,
that people were leaving out for them, to attract them to their gardens.

And now those "same" people are claiming that they are taking small dogs
and cats.
Which of course is total crap.
They are carrion feeders, and certainly wouldn't risk "damage" to their selves.
Taking what effectively is another predator.

The story of the sandwiches, being taken from peoples hands,
maybe true, but I'm not convinced either.
 
The mountain restaurants near me get these birds after skiiers lunches. Chuffs perhaps. They are highly cheeky and swoop down actually touching people heads every few minutes. This one was particularly bold and came down and perched on the edge of my empty lunch trays I was carrying. There was a chip sticking out from between the stacked trays that he gave a big tug. And then another tug until it finally came free. Entertaining. But fattening for the bird.
Zugspitze on Google Maps
by ianp5a, on Flickr
 
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Cobra said:
I know a couple of people that were directly involved in the sourcing and
re-introduction programme in the Bledlow ridge area.

Within 10 years of the seeding,
they were admitting that they were "more successful" than they had imaged ;)
Yes the whispers are true, as to whether or not it'll happen,
remains to be seen ( I suspect not for various reasons)

But again, People loved to see them initially,
and one local butcher was apparently selling day old chick,
that people were leaving out for them, to attract them to their gardens.

And now those "same" people are claiming that they are taking small dogs
and cats.
Which of course is total crap.
They are carrion feeders, and certainly wouldn't risk "damage" to their selves.
Taking what effectively is another predator.

The story of the sandwiches, being taken from peoples hands,
maybe true, but I'm not convinced either.
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Yeah. They were reintroduced about 10 years ago, and there's still a feeding station at Bellymack Hill Farm which is about a mile from my wife's house. There's an article about it here ( http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ect-is-out-of-control-say-landowners.18619775)

I suppose maintaining the daily feeding may be inhibiting natural dispersal. I don't know, but they're very common and do tend to congregate in the are around here and the nearest town, which is close to the feeding station.

At least the article left out the hysteria about them taking newborn lambs - which could be confusion with feeding off the carcasses of still births - and attacking people!
 
MartynK said:
Yeah. They were reintroduced about 10 years ago, and there's still a feeding station at Bellymack Hill Farm which is about a mile from my wife's house. There's an article about it here ( http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ect-is-out-of-control-say-landowners.18619775)

I suppose maintaining the daily feeding may be inhibiting natural dispersal. I don't know, but they're very common and do tend to congregate in the are around here and the nearest town, which is close to the feeding station.

At least the article left out the hysteria about them taking newborn lambs - which could be confusion with feeding off the carcasses of still births - and attacking people!
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I guess its over 20 years ago, when the first few pairs were introduced
down here to a "secret" location.

They have actually spread out quite well considering,
I'd guess at (from personal sightings)
100 miles north and 50 miles in the other 3 directions.

One landfill that I've worked at near Beaconsfield,
It wasn't uncommon to see 50 kites in the same thermal.
(Yes they do scrounge from landfills)
 
Feeding pigeons can be a great laugh. I've accomplished quite a few collisions between pigeon and man in my previous feeding sessions. Within those collisions were a few head shots as well :D
 
Cobra said:
I see that there are still a few moths to a flame posts :rolleyes:



I'd agree with most of your post, except that
there are no legal use caustic pastes for deterrents.
And no professional pest control company would ever consider
using something like that anyway.

The gels are slippery and slightly tacky, making the
perching surface "hostile".
"Fire gel" is purely a visual dettrent
The deformed feet / claws are due to years of
perching on unsuitable surfaces,
Pigeons are "Perchers" that is they evolved to rest in branches, wrapping their feet around them.
not perching on flat surfaces.

For example, have you ever wondered with birds of prey,
why some are displayed on a block and some sit on a bow perch?
Peregrines ( and other longwings) nest on rock ledges,
They rest their feet "flat and open"
Harris hawks (And other hawks) sit it trees etc. They wrap they feet around their perch.

Prolonged use of the wrong perching surface causes tendon damage bumble foot ( deformed swolen feet) and claw / toe damage.

There are also other environmental issue that can also
affect the feet, such as "string foot"
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarification

I was not promoting it but was detailing a historic issue that did not work. It was not nice to see the birds in such a state. I was working in Whitehall in the late 70s/early 80s so had a daily view of the change that was evolving.

The fact is that the then Greater London Council completely pushed to create a people based space and changed a 'tradition'. The Process clntinued when the Assemnly was formed. London had billions spent on it and there was no real complaints about the work done to rid the square of pigeons.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Thanks for clarification
I was not promoting it but was detailing a historic issue that did not work. It was not nice to see the birds in such a state.
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No problem (y)
TBH its quite a widely held belief, that the gels are caustic.
Pigeon spikes unless applied correctly are a waste if time,
The pigeons learn to roost in between the spikes.
I've even seen them sitting / roosting on the spikes,
with their feet turned out gripping the" V" of the adjacent spikes.
It just goes to show how adaptable they are :D
 
Cobra said:
No problem :thumbs:
TBH its quite a widely held belief, that the gels are caustic.
Pigeon spikes unless applied correctly are a waste if time,
The pigeons learn to root in between the spikes.
I've even seen them sitting / roosting on the spikes,
with their feet turned out gripping the" V" of the adjacent spikes.
It just goes to show how adaptable they are :D
Click to expand...

There was some gel use as I had some 'painted' on the ledge outside the window where my desk was. What the gel was I have no idea but that was over 30 years ago.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
There was some gel use as I had some 'painted' on the ledge outside the window where my desk was. What the gel was I have no idea but that was over 30 years ago.
Click to expand...
Generally its like a silicon sealer. with an "activator" painted over the top,
it keeps it slippery, yet tacky to the touch,
(Think freshly applied silicon sealer without it actually sticking to your fingers)
 
Thanks for the info Chris, It's nice to get some accurate information from someone knowledgeable in the subject for a change instead of the scare mongering and opinionated crap that tends to be spouted at almost every opportunity.
 
AHILL said:
Thanks for the info Chris, It's nice to get some accurate information from someone knowledgeable in the subject for a change instead of the scare mongering and opinionated crap that tends to be spouted at almost every opportunity.
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Thanks Andy :)
 
ST4 have you ever thought about buying the poor old lady a pair of white turtle dove brooches ,and asking her round to xmas dinner .she might turn out to be either an eccentric millionairess or a raving nympho who will put a smile on your face .

on the other hand she might just smell like bempton cliffs on a bad day and drive away all your other unwanted xmas guests saving you a fortune long term :exit::exit::exit:
 
Or maybe she was ostracised for being outraged so much and shooting everyone in the face ;)

Be careful Steve it could be you :D
 
MartynK said:
I remember feeding the pigeons in Trafalgar Square when I was a kid too, and they were regarded as a bit of a feature then. H V Morton wrote about them in the 1920s, and reckoned they were descended from the birds wealthy people bred for food in dovecots centuries ago, but I suppose they're just attracted by easy pickings now.

I live in the country when I'm in the UK, and they're really not a problem. The main controversy is about red kites which quite a lot of people think have become a pest and should be culled.
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It used to be encouraged, there used to be an old boy who used to wear a flat cap and a gabardine who sold bird seed in Trafalgar Sq. He's been featured on many a postcard and photographs.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
It used to be encouraged, there used to be an old boy who used to wear a flat cap and a gabardine who sold bird seed in Trafalgar Sq. He's been featured on many a postcard and photographs.
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leave me poor old dad out of it :naughty:
 
Happy childhood memories but pigeons are a bloomin nuisance but not as bad as flying rats ( seagulls)
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
Happy childhood memories but pigeons are a bloomin nuisance but not as bad as flying rats ( seagulls)
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They seem to infest Bath at different times of the year. Blasted nuisance.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
It used to be encouraged, there used to be an old boy who used to wear a flat cap and a gabardine who sold bird seed in Trafalgar Sq. He's been featured on many a postcard and photographs.
Click to expand...
I vaguely remember that too,
yes it was encouraged, but then the environmental issues
were "becoming realised"
Bird lime makes a hell of a mess of buildings, and statues.
Not only the staining but also eating into the masonry
In an ideal world, they would fly upsidedown :D

Blank_Canvas said:
Happy childhood memories but pigeons are a bloomin nuisance but not as bad as flying rats ( seagulls)
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There's not a lot in it TBH,
Both carry diseases both crap everywhere,
seagulls are generally bigger and more fearless too.
At least pigeons eat on site and not fly off with it,
Like seagulls, then they get mobbed by others and
whatever they have scrounged gets dropped
 
Cobra said:
I vaguely remember that too,
yes it was encouraged, but then the environmental issues
were "becoming realised"
Bird lime makes a hell of a mess of buildings, and statues.
Not only the staining but also eating into the masonry
In an ideal world, they would fly upsidedown :D


There's not a lot in it TBH,
Both carry diseases both crap everywhere,
seagulls are generally bigger and more fearless too.
At least pigeons eat on site and not fly off with it,
Like seagulls, then they get mobbed by others and
whatever they have scrounged gets dropped
Click to expand...

I agree totally but I think seagulls tend to be more aggressive, dive bombing your chips. Some are quite intelligent and work in pairs one causing a distraction while the other dives in. Add to that the loud screeching noise and for that reason I think they are a bigger nuisance.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I agree totally but I think seagulls tend to be more aggressive, dive bombing your chips. Some are quite intelligent and work in pairs one causing a distraction while the other dives in. Add to that the loud screeching noise and for that reason I think they are a bigger nuisance.
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Oh I agree 100% they are aggressive, especially those Herring Gulls, big buggers!
During the winter, there are some land fills with around 2000 mix species, of gulls,
the black headed are the hardest to shift, safety in numbers and all that.

I've had a Falcon kill on the face, while they feeding, they just move, away 20 and continue to feed!
 
So the issue is what to do,

1. direct positive action against the pigeons,
2. direct positive action against the pigeon feeding lady,
3. speak to the council,
4. Speak to the feeding lady
5. or winge on an internet forum.

The latter is clearly the modern way (whilst invoking 1 & 2), so as a suggestion, why not join Mumsnet, start an internet petition and force the council to take action. For Mumsnet, whatever you do don't mention you're a photographer (should be ok for ST4 based on his posts on this forum :) ) and remember to constantly refer to the children and their safety.

So it's not "the bird could have had my eye out", but "those birds swooping could injure a child".
It's not the pigeon poo is a health hazard, it's a health hazard to children. etc

Don't forget to finish with "Won't somebody think of the children..."

Get your signatures and er-approach the council...
 
Cobra said:
I'd guess at (from personal sightings)
100 miles north and 50 miles in the other 3 directions.
Click to expand...

I regularly see them when flying my paraglider around the Hampshire/Sussex South Downs. I'd put there spread even further then that from personal sightings as well. They're great for marking where the thermals are for you ;)
 
I've contacted the council and police scotland today.

It sounds calous, but it matters not one jot if bird feeding is this persons sole pleasure, it's a nuisance to many more people and is littering, which is against the law. Imagine the outrage if a speeding driver said, driving my fast car fast is my old pleasure as I am a billy no mates. Doubt that would wash.

The bird feeding will attract rats to uneaten food, the extra bird crap makes a mess of the street, it can become slippy, the pigeons flocking en mass do present a safety risk to everyone, it can attract seagulls. In short she should be moved on to a park where she can feed the birds and it will cause less menace to all, in the same way speeding gonzales in their speeding motors should head to a track where their speed isn't a danger to the public. The seagulls have been proven to annoy people in the city. They're a pest.

I've narrowly avoided a face on meeting with the birds, others not so lucky.
 
boyfalldown said:
I regularly see them when flying my paraglider around the Hampshire/Sussex South Downs. I'd put there spread even further then that from personal sightings as well. They're great for marking where the thermals are for you ;)
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I don't often get down that way TBH.
So didn't realise, but it's great to hear :thumbs:
 
ST4 said:
I've narrowly avoided a face on meeting with the birds, others not so lucky.
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Is it that the birds are distracted by the free food and not watching where they are going? Is this a scottish trait, Pigeon: "Hey did you spill my food. Get out my Fecking way, Stitch that jimmy" etc.

I remember Trafalgar square and the birds were pretty good at avoiding people, same as in my local park. It's different for seagulls who can be aggressive in seeking food.
 
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