Piece work less than minimum wage

GTG

GTG

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Looking for advice because started a new job with a company 5 weeks ago as a window fitters mate.

3 weeks in I was told I was being sent on council contracts and being paid per window.

Long story short, the fitter they employed is 16 st and slow, plus me being new and not properly trained the pay works out well under minimum wage.

Not only that, I am working my ass off for well over 10 hours a day, without proper breaks.

Of course the fitter blames all the problems on me even though he is clearly well out of shape for speed work.

Oddly the fitter is self employed and I am employed and the employer has a serious aversion to providing safety equipment.

In fact I am bringing all my own tools and have not been provided anything by the company at all.

I would normally leave the job but want to train to fit them.

Any advice that might help would be greatly appreciated, especially anyone in the industry.

Thank you.
 
1) join a union
2) have a word with the income tax people - they are responsible for enforcing the minimum wage and take a dim view of piece work that cannot produce the minimum wage (strictly the living wage now).
3) have a word with ACAS (Google them - they are free for initial advice) about the breaks or perhaps the HSE (Health and Safety Executive, again Google them).
 
As above:
HMRC have guidance regarding the living wage
And whether someone is employed or a subcontractor
 
HMRC say that you should be able to achieve minimum wage with piece work going average speed.

The problem is the rate they have calculated seems incredibly low for staff who are not fully trained or experienced.

It was calculated it seems for very fast, fully trained and experienced staff.

I have only been there a few weeks and my partner has been a one man band for the last 12 years and seems
unsuited to
 
GTG said:
HMRC say that you should be able to achieve minimum wage with piece work going average speed.

The problem is the rate they have calculated seems incredibly low for staff who are not fully trained or experienced.

It was calculated it seems for very fast, fully trained and experienced staff.

I have only been there a few weeks and my partner has been a one man band for the last 12 years and seems
unsuited to
Click to expand...

Then the rate should take into account all circumstances otherwise it’d be in breach of the law. The ‘average’ should allow experienced workers to earn more than NMW otherwise it’s not the average, it’s the maximum.
 
are your removing old windows plus fitting new? what time are you roughly taking per window, why i ask is, its a very cutthroat game in the building game these-days , everyone undercutting everyone
and it reflects down the line, what is the time scale between fitting each window, you normally find some d******d with no site experience, go's out and estimates how long it will take to fit a window,
when in reality it takes longer, "e.g." plaster falls off, so needs replacing, not all trims will cover gaps...
I have done this work myself and could install three windows and a front door and frame in a day, plus all reinstating comfortably..
if the guy you work with is not fitting them fast enough, the company certainly wont be the one that will be losing out .
unfortunately you are the one that is losing out, are the other fittings doing ok? ask to go with someone else?.
 
mark richards said:
are your removing old windows plus fitting new? what time are you roughly taking per window, why i ask is, its a very cutthroat game in the building game these-days , everyone undercutting everyone
and it reflects down the line, what is the time scale between fitting each window, you normally find some d******d with no site experience, go's out and estimates how long it will take to fit a window,
when in reality it takes longer, "e.g." plaster falls off, so needs replacing, not all trims will cover gaps...
I have done this work myself and could install three windows and a front door and frame in a day, plus all reinstating comfortably..
if the guy you work with is not fitting them fast enough, the company certainly wont be the one that will be losing out .
unfortunately you are the one that is losing out, are the other fittings doing ok? ask to go with someone else?.
Click to expand...

Target is 8 or 9 windows fully removed and reinstall, clean up and take all crap away and dump it, clean van etc.

That is between a fitter and myself as a mate but I have only done it a few weeks.

The other issue is taking them out is particularly hard, they were fitted rock solid with diagonal screws and metal fixings all over the place and wood with pins all round to take out.
Plus rotted screws that wont drill out so you have to use force, people not moving things away from windows and many other problems.
 
mark richards said:
one window a hour is a very hard target to hit if its not going you'r way, it could take a hour just to remove, the more damage you make
taking the window out, the more work you have to reinstate , like you know... them metal windows are bastards to remove.
do you foam them in?
Click to expand...

Screw and foam. If it was just foam them it would be much quicker but the fitter I am with wants to do it that way.

We have been watching other teams and testing different tools for removing old windows.

Remove sashes + glass.
Use sawzall on the middle posts.
Use small axe and lump hammer on 4 corners to make splits.
Then try to use chisels, crow bars and claw hammers.

Still takes a long time but cant think of a faster way
 
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