Photshop Photo Fine - Too Dark When Viewed on Monitor

martinfuge

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Martin
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Hi all, I have looked to see if this has been asked before and sorry if I couldn't see it and repeating. I have this problem and was wondering if anyone knew if I was doing something wrong or have missed something when using Photoshop:

As I want to get some images printed I have to apply a colour profile from the pro lab. The image on PS CC looks fine. But when I view the saved image on my pc it is too dark, and the final image did come back like that too.

I have calibrated my monitor, but was wonder if there is something I am missing for both the print and saved copy on my PC to be different to what Photoshop is showing me?

Cheers.
 
OK let me ask some questions:-

Are you shooting in RAW? NB a RAW file has no ICC profile it is only once PP and saved that you associate one with it...................therefore when you say the image looks fine in PS is this the in process file before "saving as" plus what does the saved image look like in a side by side comparison in PS to the pre saved one?

Who told you to apply a specific profile to the processed image and what profile is it you are talking about?

Are you sure they did not say use the profile when you softproof but make sure to send it sRGB?

Sorry, running out of steam......................but as I see it without more details > you are processing and saving the file with a non standard ICC profile attached apparently one that the Pro Lab told you to use(???), now if your monitor is like many others used it can typically display the sRGB gamut and hence any file with an embedded ICC profile other than sRGB will look odd on an sRGB gamut monitor. In the most simple form an aRGB image will look flat an lacking in contrast on an sRGB monitor but I think I recall reading that ProPhoto ICC has even more odd appearance on such monitors.

And as for the print coming back too dark...............have you asked the lab why they think you have made a mistake?

PS hopefully others will chime and correct anything I have said :) in case I then have to get my :coat: now off to :sleep:
 
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Hi,

Yes I shoot in RAW. Once I have edited and saved image it looks fine. Even when I re-open into PS it looks ok. When I add the labs colour profile which they tell us to do the image looks fine in PS. Once I save it and then look at the saved file that's when it is too dark.

No, they say I needed to download the colour profile and convert to that profile so matches their printers.

I know I did read some others have had this problem with same lab but other haven't. I know it must be something I am doing.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Hi

Glad you found a solution :)

Can you please say just how bright is your monitor after calibration and what lab are you using and the colour profile they say is to be used?
 
I have **never seen a lab that says to convert/assign your image to one of their printer/paper profiles... that is just wrong. Every pro lab I have ever seen (WHCC, BAY, ProDPI, etc) specifically say *do not convert* the image to the provided color space; it is for softproofing only. They all want the file sent in a recognized color space (sRGB/Adobe/ProPhoto/etc)... and almost all of them will twist your image into sRGB if the file is not correctly tagged.

**Over here in the US there *is* one that suggests converting the image to the proofing color space (Dry Creek/Costco)... but their process is to bypass all of the front-end and send the file directly to the printer w/o any color management/interpretation (very unusual). And in that instance the printer is not aware of color space at all (the conversion is pointless).
 
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I have **never seen a lab that says to convert/assign your image to one of their printer/paper profiles... that is just wrong. Every pro lab I have ever seen (WHCC, BAY, ProDPI, etc) specifically say *do not convert* the image to the provided color space; it is for softproofing only. They all want the file sent in a recognized color space (sRGB/Adobe/ProPhoto/etc)... and almost all of them will twist your image into sRGB if the file is not correctly tagged.

**Over here in the US there *is* one that suggests converting the image to the proofing color space (Dry Creek/Costco)... but their process is to bypass all of the front-end and send the file directly to the printer w/o any color management/interpretation (very unusual). And in that instance the printer is not aware of color space at all (the conversion is pointless).
Pro Am say to convert to their profile, but I have just done some test prints with converting like they say, not converting, and just sending without any and all came back dark. I am gonna try another lab today to test to see if that is different.
 
My monitor is showing 50 after it's calibrated and I was using Pro Am Imaging in Bradford.

Ref brightness, what I meant was what does the calibrator tell rather than the "scale" setting on the monitor itself. Mine for example I set to 100cd and right now cannot recall the set figure on the monitor that equated last time I calibrated to attain the calibration measured brightness. NB have a vague recollection my screen setting is at 10 but for the record I do all my pp and image critical work in very subdued light with the only light set back from the screen and not illuminating it.

Other than the possible issue of the profile the commonest cause of screen 'right' but prints dark is that the screen is set too bright.

Please do tell us what the calibrator says about how bright the screen is???

PS edit - just checked my brightness on the monitor is at 26 and for the record due for a recalibration but the brightness I anticipate to hold at 100cd will not change by more than a digit or few.
 
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PS edit - just checked my brightness on the monitor is at 26 and for the record due for a recalibration but the brightness I anticipate to hold at 100cd will not change by more than a digit or few.
That really should depend on the editing environment. 100/120 is good for a darker environment, 200 is probably better for a brighter environment.
 
I'm guessing from many posts I've read that a very common misconception is that using a colour profile will magically sort all printing problems. It won't. You have to get the display brightness right before anything else.
 
My monitor is showing 50 after it's calibrated and I was using Pro Am Imaging in Bradford.
50 what? It always helps to define your terms. Can I assume 50% in the osd menu? That should be in the right bracket. A figure for cd/m2 might be more meaningful. Mine's currently about 140.
 
That really should depend on the editing environment. 100/120 is good for a darker environment, 200 is probably better for a brighter environment.
Yes, and I did qualify my setting by describing my environment ;)

Really need the OP to give his further feedback and what impact that may make on any further advice folk could offer him?
 
Hi,

My fault for getting a few things wrong in typing, it wasn't the device I used to calibrate that set brightness on monitor at 50. This is what someone recommended I did:

Calibrate Monitor which I did. It automatically saves the profile and when I check colour management it's the default.

They then said to change monitor brightness to 50 that's the advice they gave.

Photo's were edited and then instructions followed from the lab before images are sent to them. I recently did a test with a local lab and that printed fine, they even checked it while I was there before printing as was spot on.

This is why I can't understand when I use Pro Am they are dark. The FAQ have some people having same and the answers are just calibrate and brightness too high and needs to be reduced.

At least now I have got a test print from different lab which was fine I know I am set up ok.
 
Hi,

My fault for getting a few things wrong in typing, it wasn't the device I used to calibrate that set brightness on monitor at 50. This is what someone recommended I did:

Calibrate Monitor which I did. It automatically saves the profile and when I check colour management it's the default.

They then said to change monitor brightness to 50 that's the advice they gave
.

Photo's were edited and then instructions followed from the lab before images are sent to them. I recently did a test with a local lab and that printed fine, they even checked it while I was there before printing as was spot on.

This is why I can't understand when I use Pro Am they are dark. The FAQ have some people having same and the answers are just calibrate and brightness too high and needs to be reduced.

At least now I have got a test print from different lab which was fine I know I am set up ok.

Hi Martin

This above makes no sense to me???

AFAIK the whole purpose of calibration is to create a custom screen profile that accounts for the colour temperature and the individual R G B settings as well in the case we are talking about the brightness. With my screen using a Spyder 4 Elite I set my target brightness of 100cd/m2 and adjust the OSD control such that Spyder reports that I have set it to the required level to achieve the 100cd target. Then it takes all its colour readings and creates the profile.

Therefore to then once calibrated to ignore the OSD setting and simply increase it to 50 makes absolutely no sense...............did the person who recommended this step tell you why it was needed?

Now in regard to ProAm lab you mention I had a quick look and the Fuji DP2 they talk I have from one lab but only for use in soft proofing when making C type prints....................I am still at a loss to understand why they tell customers to PP and attach that profile to submitted images. The only thing I can think of is perhaps they simply run the files without any sort of technician intervention or monitoring and that because you supplied files that, because of your screen being too bright, resulted in dark prints.

So, looking at what you say about the 'local lab' were these images embedded with the ProAm profile or the sRGB "standard"? Secondly though the second lab prints you say are fine....................are they really or are they printed with technician intervention to compensate for the image being too dark.

I think a fair test of ProAm for you is to properly calibrate you screen using what IMO is the way the vast majority of calibrator users do and set the brightness to compliment the room lighting (as mentioned I PP in very subdued light and mine is set to 100cd/m2) and then send them a file and see what the result is like.

Of course you can continue to use the new local lab but I think they are not doing you any favours because you are it seems relying on them to make adjustments and they could be introducing unwelcome artifacts.

For the record I have had Giclee prints made where the lab's only recommendation was to not do the output sharpening step because they controlled that step based on their knowledge of the best setting to suit the paper type selected and whether they were in some cases doing some upscaling for me.
 
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