Photos at a disco?

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Danny133

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Daniel
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How would you do it?

Obviously it's dark and lots of flashing lights so?

Plus people are moving :/
 
I guess you have 3 choices,
Flash freezes movement.
Non Flash with either high iso, small dof, and still blurry, can look ok.
Flash plus a slow shutter speed to give some movement and freeze detail.
 
I start by typing Nightclub and Photography into the search box and then reading the guide that Base_junkie wrote.
 
DemiLion said:
I start by typing Nightclub and Photography into the search box and then reading the guide that Base_junkie wrote.
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Good advice :D I'll have a browse of that as it could prove useful at some events I attend.
 
Probably not the most portable option but you could try using a tripod from a good vantage point. This would allow you to have greater control over aperture and ISO. If you wanted to capture movement this may the best option as a slow shutter speed would be necessary.
 
just read it like 4 times over :P

i dont have a flash gun =/
 
Danny133 said:
dunno .. can i?

thougt pop up was awful?
Click to expand...

It is....buy a proper flash gun

I start at shutter speed 1/60 aperture f5.6 ISO400 with flash set to rear sync TTL and work from there. I tend to use anything as slow as 1/10, but keep aperture between f4 (single/couple) to f5.6 for small groups.

It's easier than it sounds, just work manually, the rear curtain flash will take care of the subjects sharpness.
 
okay so use rear curtain only?

what if i have to use pop up ..

i cant afford to buy a flash gun and im taking some pics for fun for a freind not being paid so buying kit for his help isnt an option lol
 
Yeah rear curtain.

Use pop up if you must. But be warned, it will look like it, it will be obvious, and the results won't be great.

Do what you've gotta do :)
 
id rather not which is why i was wondering if there was anything i could do to not use it lol
 
The pop-up is actually quite good for that style of photography, as very well described in the Bass Junkie link.

Also, beware of second-curtain sync, especially on E-TTL which you probably should be using in a fluid and mobile socal situation. It has no advantages under those kind of circumstances, and a few downsides.
 
Danny, I'm very confused. I thought you kept one of your 430EX flashguns. What sort of lighting are you now using for your home studio for portraiture? What are you using for shooting weddings? Sorry I've not kept up but I really have no idea what photographic gear you now own. Is it basically a 7D and 24-70/2.8L? Anything else at all? Where/when did the flashgun(s) go?
 
You will lose on recycle time and battery length with the on board. Even a Jessops or Yongnuo would do.

Get one from Jessops, use then return? (I know, your not supposed too, but keep the packaging nice, don't let it get damaged...)
 
HoppyUK said:
The pop-up is actually quite good for that style of photography, as very well described in the Bass Junkie link.

Also, beware of second-curtain sync, especially on E-TTL which you probably should be using in a fluid and mobile socal situation. It has no advantages under those kind of circumstances, and a few downsides.
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I'm confused why you think rear curtain flash has no advantages....shooting at slow shutter speeds in a club means the only thing keeping your subject sharp is the flash at the end of the exposure. The single disadvantage is that during longer exposures it will be noticeable that it flashes twice,and sometimes after the first flash the subjects think its done and move
 
tdodd said:
Danny, I'm very confused. I thought you kept one of your 430EX flashguns. What sort of lighting are you now using for your home studio for portraiture? What are you using for shooting weddings? Sorry I've not kept up but I really have no idea what photographic gear you now own. Is it basically a 7D and 24-70/2.8L? Anything else at all? Where/when did the flashgun(s) go?
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had a dodgy spate at home and sold some things

430 was one of them

ive got a 7D and a 24-70 .. thats it ..

i havnt shot a wedding lol (i would like to hang out with someone who does - but another story)

onboard flash is the only one i have at my disposle
 
Ah, OK, I did wonder where all your other kit disappeared to. A 7D and 24-70 is a nice, solid foundation for building a system, although I'm surprised you chose to purchase a grip rather than a flash. It seems a flash would have been a far more versatile addition to your kit.
 
Danny - with that gear, you'll be able to shoot something relatively decent (and moody) without a flash....unless the disco is really, really dark with people jumping around like complete loons.

Whack the ISO up, stick it through Lightroom and it'll come out fine.

Clearly, you'll not produce prize-winning pics without the gear but you'll be able to get enough light through the lens and the 7D has decent enough ISO performance to get some pretty decent stuff.

If it's something for a mate, you'll be surprised how good you'll get it by just shooting a large aperture and high ISO then recovering it in Lightroom.

All of the above advice about how to do it properly is right but, given you don't have a flash, just don't use one....
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I'm confused why you think rear curtain flash has no advantages....shooting at slow shutter speeds in a club means the only thing keeping your subject sharp is the flash at the end of the exposure. The single disadvantage is that during longer exposures it will be noticeable that it flashes twice,and sometimes after the first flash the subjects think its done and move
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Second curtain sync is most useful when the subject is a) moving and the direction of that movement is important, and b) you can either predict or control it accordingly. At a disco when people are waving their arms about it doesn't matter if their arms are up or down or moving left or right, and there's nothing you can do about it anyway.

In addition, with second curtain it is hard to predict when the flash will fire so you can't respond accurately to spontaneous movements and fleeting expressions.

And if you are on E-TTL, with a short-ish shutter speed the pre-flash is separated from the main flash perfectly to capture any blinking from the pre-flash, and when the shutter speed is longer, people tend to move thinking that the picture has already been taken. You can get around that one by using the FEL* which fires the pre-flash and locks the exposure, so that when you take the actual picture all you get is the main flash.

The reason many people use second curtain is because they believe that as the flash fires last it somehow overlays the flash image more prominently. It doesn't.

There are some advantages to second curtain sync in that the leading edge of any movement is least affected by ambient blur which can sometimes be noticeable on faces that are moving in just one direction and might be important. In which case, you have to weight up the pros and cons.

You can take this stuff as far as you want and start gelling the flash to match the ambient etc, adjust the exposure to get just the right balance of flash and ambient, vary the amount of movement blur etc, but in rapidly changing situations like a club or disco a lot of that fine control is a bit up in the air. I would just put the camera on Av, E-TTL, tweak the ISO a bit if there is scope for that to help balance the flash/ambient. Technically pretty easy, let the camera do that and concentrate mainly on capturing the people, the movement and the moment.
 
HoppyUK said:
Second curtain sync is most useful when the subject is a) moving and the direction of that movement is important, and b) you can either predict or control it accordingly. At a disco when people are waving their arms about it doesn't matter if their arms are up or down or moving left or right, and there's nothing you can do about it anyway.

In addition, with second curtain it is hard to predict when the flash will fire so you can't respond accurately to spontaneous movements and fleeting expressions.

And if you are on E-TTL, with a short-ish shutter speed the pre-flash is separated from the main flash perfectly to capture any blinking from the pre-flash, and when the shutter speed is longer, people tend to move thinking that the picture has already been taken. You can get around that one by using the FEL* which fires the pre-flash and locks the exposure, so that when you take the actual picture all you get is the main flash.

The reason many people use second curtain is because they believe that as the flash fires last it somehow overlays the flash image more prominently. It doesn't.

There are some advantages to second curtain sync in that the leading edge of any movement is least affected by ambient blur which can sometimes be noticeable on faces that are moving in just one direction and might be important. In which case, you have to weight up the pros and cons.

You can take this stuff as far as you want and start gelling the flash to match the ambient etc, adjust the exposure to get just the right balance of flash and ambient, vary the amount of movement blur etc, but in rapidly changing situations like a club or disco a lot of that fine control is a bit up in the air. I would just put the camera on Av, E-TTL, tweak the ISO a bit if there is scope for that to help balance the flash/ambient. Technically pretty easy, let the camera do that and concentrate mainly on capturing the people, the movement and the moment.
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I would argue that completely, I've shot several nightclub events, everyone I've ever shot with has also used rear sync, and everyone shoots on manual unless its bright enough to not use flash.

Front curtain is a disaster with slow shutter speed, flash fires, then the shutter stays open and exposes the ambient,so you tend you get a sharp looking subject, then blurry in front of it. Each to their own, but I've tried both, in this scenario, and rear sync is better.

Joe McNally Hot Shoe Diaries "Rear Curtain. I'm there all the time."
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I would argue that completely, I've shot several nightclub events, everyone I've ever shot with has also used rear sync, and everyone shoots on manual unless its bright enough to not use flash.

Front curtain is a disaster with slow shutter speed, flash fires, then the shutter stays open and exposes the ambient,so you tend you get a sharp looking subject, then blurry in front of it. Each to their own, but I've tried both, in this scenario, and rear sync is better.

Joe McNally Hot Shoe Diaries "Rear Curtain. I'm there all the time."
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It's not an argument. Be aware of how it works and the impact that it has, and make your choice. I would suggest that many people that use second curtain do so because they believe it enhances the flash exposure by overlaying it last. It is not a magic bullet in that sense - no difference. If you want your flash image to stand out, position your subject over a dark area of the background.

That Joe McNally reference is to professional and controlled portraiture, not a club or disco with everything happening. He's referring to the 'leading edge' aspect I mentioned above. Valid point. Weigh it up, bearing in mind that timing will be more difficult, and if you're using E-TTL, weigh up the pros and cons of the pre-flash too. Switching to manual is of course an option, but that is restricting in other ways.

McNally is one of the world's most accomplished flash photographers, not your average Joe at the local disco (no disrespect to the OP here, just speaking generally ;)). If you are less accomplished than he is, shooting on Av, E-TTL first curtain sync will, in most situations like that, get pretty similar results with almost point and shoot ease.
 
I would suggest that many people that use second curtain do so because they believe it enhances the flash exposure by overlaying it last
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I would "disagree" then, and state that most people use second curtain flash to give them the best chance of maintaining subject sharpness whilst dropping the shutter speed.

The quote from the Hot shoes diaries, then continues to give the reason behind the use of Rear Sync Flash, which yes, is to give you the best shot at achieving sharpness of the subject whilst using slower shutter speeds. This is the same in any scenario, the theory and application are still identical, whether Joe Bloggs at the disco understands the theory behind it or not are irrelevant.

So anyone "less accomplished than he is" should be using AV mode? You serious here!?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I would "disagree" then, and state that most people use second curtain flash to give them the best chance of maintaining subject sharpness whilst dropping the shutter speed.

The quote from the Hot shoes diaries, then continues to give the reason behind the use of Rear Sync Flash, which yes, is to give you the best shot at achieving sharpness of the subject whilst using slower shutter speeds. This is the same in any scenario, the theory and application are still identical, whether Joe Bloggs at the disco understands the theory behind it or not are irrelevant.

So anyone "less accomplished than he is" should be using AV mode? You serious here!?
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Well that's fair enough. Use whatever method suits. The advanatges of second curtain sync still apply, but equally so do the disadvantages. I'm just pointing out the differences, because from the many posts I see on second curtain sync, many (most?) people actually don't understand it.

If you look at the images on the marathon link Tim provided, there doesn't seem to be much ambient blurring going on for either first or second curtain sync to make much difference. It's hard to tell which has been used, or if it would make any difference. Does Exif report first/second sync mode? Also, the images that have been spoiled by second curtain sync missing the moment are obviously not going to be put up.

Yes, I tend to use Av as my default flash mode. If the light level is changing, I will stay on that and let the camera track the ambient, tweaking it with +/- compensation as necessary (which is often more 'manual' than manual, which is really a Set & Lock mode). What's wrong with that? What is the benefit of choosing manual in a situation like that? Why not let the camera do the work? It's far quicker.

If things are stable light wise, I might switch to manual (Set & Lock) to keep it that way without further adjustment. Depends. Different ways of working, the exposure would be the same either way.
 
tdodd said:
I'm surprised you chose to purchase a grip rather than a flash. It seems a flash would have been a far more versatile addition to your kit.
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i ordered it ages ago mate - just took forever for Digital Rev to ship it then for it to arrive .. if i had of known what was round the corner id of saved the cash and kept the 430 :( lol

nevermind!

thanks for the advice everyone!
 
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