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Arkady

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Rob
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Just got back - no real surprises really.
We were hosted by Calumet UK and treated to dinner & drinks (and more drinks - and more drinks....and then some more drinks...) by Canon UK. Had presentations and Q&A sessions with Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Noritsu and a few others hoping to land MoD contracts.

Most interesting was talking to the 'Big Guns' at Sigma...

Sigma are about to be 'very good' indeed: their new EX 85mm f/1.4 looks set to pull the rug out from under Nikon (especially) with a price of only £699 compared to a £K more for the new Nikkor. Release for that will be end of September (to Press) and in the shops in time for Xmas.

All new glassware (courtesy of Hoya who now have a proper partnership with Sigma and will manufacure all Sigma's glass) and japanese QC (facory will remain in Japan and all assembly will continue on the mainland), should address some of the haphazardness of Sigma's offerings.
Other new lenses include:
EX 120-300 f/2.8 OS, release scheduled for Spring 2011 @ £3K
EX 70-200 f/2.8 OS @ £1200
Macro 150 f/2.8 APO DG HSM with full OS throughout
300mm f/2.8 (no price yet)
400mm f/2.8 (no price yet)

Sigma SD-1 camera with a 3-layer Foveon (now fully-owned by Sigma) sensor with true-colour capture; effective equivalent of 20Mpi (64/3).
Fully weather-sealed magnesium body - should retail for about £1500.
This will have a Sigma-fit lens mount.
Sigma are going for it big style and I predict that a lot of people will be tempted away from Nikon and Canon optics if the claims we heard are even close.

The 85mm f/1.4 though...if you've just ordered the new Nikkor 85 one-four, you should cancel the order immediately and wait for the test reviews just before Xmas...

Nikon were doing some secret surveillance stuff I can't tell you about, but other than that, the hot scoop is that the 24-70 f/2.8 is much less robust than we'd been led to believe: a good, hard tap will kill the AF stone-dead and if you have to send it back to Nikon for repair, they simply replace the entire inner asssembly: as it's so complicated, it's apparently uneconomical to attemp a repair. You simply get back you original external barrel with all-new glass...

Also, if anyone with the new 70-200 f/2.8 VR-II has any slight focussing issues, you should send it back for an 'inspection' - I can't actually say more than that, but it'll come back working a lot better, put it that way.

Nikon will storm the Pro-DSLR+Video scene early next year - nuff said...
The words 'Four' and 'Dee' were mentioned. :D

Canon - couple of new lenses you may already know about:
EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM
300 + 400mm f/2.8 IS II USM lenses
new 1.4 and 2.0 converters which are supposed to be light-years better than the old ones they replace.

The EOS 5D II has been adopted by the Royal Navy and several Police forces as an IR-only surveillance camera; the BBC are using it to film a new wildlife series 'The Truth About Lions' with it specially-adapted for IR by ACS (cost to you for that conversion, £500)

Finally, Canon have finally secured the contract as the Royal Air Force's professional equipment supplier. All RAF photographers will now use Canon Pro bodies and lenses instead of Nikons...
 
Never thought I'd get so excited by a post lol. Nice review, think I'll put that 85 1.4 on hold for the time being then. No rumours of a D700 replacement for 2011 then?

Edit - I know you'll all moan but I had to ask ;)
 
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thanks for that, some interesting info there.
 
tintin said:
Never thought I'd get so excited from a by post lol. Nice review, think I'll put that 85 1.4 on hold for the time being then. No rumours of a D700 replacement for 2011 then?

Edit - I know you'll all moan but I had to ask ;)
Click to expand...

'Probably'...and it will have full-HD video...

Nikon were being very tight-lipped, but at least two Pro bodies are about to appear next year and the following two years should really shake things up...
 
Arkady said:
Finally, Canon have finally secured the contract as the Royal Air Force's professional equipment supplier. All RAF photographers will now use Canon Pro bodies and lenses instead of Nikons...
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What a joke, another genius bit of MOD procurement. Instead of having one centralised supply chain where bigger volumes mean bigger discounts and have everyone using the same kit so they can swap it around and instantly know what's what the RAF goes and gets a different manufacturer. No doubt somebody has been offered a nice position at Canon when they retire for that little contract.

Don't suppose Sony had anything to speak about did they Rob, something to make us believe there is life in the (not so) old dog yet?
 
Kev M said:
What a joke, another genius bit of MOD procurement. Instead of having one centralised supply chain where bigger volumes mean bigger discounts and have everyone using the same kit so they can swap it around and instantly know what's what the RAF goes and gets a different manufacturer. No doubt somebody has been offered a nice position at Canon when they retire for that little contract.

Don't suppose Sony had anything to speak about did they Rob, something to make us believe there is life in the (not so) old dog yet?
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They didn't want to talk to us apparently...

MoD-who?
 
As I've said on the forum previously - The Nikon 1.4G is amazingly sharp wide open and focus is VERY accurate. I really can't see Sigma topping it and certainly don't fancy buying three of them to see if one is half-decent.

Interesting read on the 24-70. I seriously suspect that's the one lens that gets sent back to Nikon more than any other. I wonder if a redesign is on the cards.....
 
I'll be very interested to see how the Sigma 85 performs.

RE. Build quality for the 24-70. Jon dropped his camera and 24-70 on the pavement at a wedding we did a couple of weeks ago. The D700 took a bit of damage but the lens is perfectly fine and mine has taken a few knocks without any problems.
 
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ryanyboy said:
As I've said on the forum previously - The Nikon 1.4G is amazingly sharp wide open and focus is VERY accurate. I really can't see Sigma topping it and certainly don't fancy buying three of them to see if one is half-decent.

Interesting read on the 24-70. I seriously suspect that's the one lens that gets sent back to Nikon more than any other. I wonder if a redesign is on the cards.....
Click to expand...

Our two guys at Calumet (they are responsible for all Military & MoD camera equipment and so all servicing and repair goes throught them -they see all our damaged kit) are saying that the 24-70 and the 70-200 VR-I are both pretty fragile compared to earlier Nikon Pro lenses - my 24-70 got beat to poo and beyond in Afghan and was fine, but it looks like I was the lucky one.
You may remember that my 70-200 VR-I was damaged when I banged it against a wall in Afghan early on in my Tour - the AF failed, though it still worked on manual. Apparently this wasn't uncommon but the VR-II is much better-built according to Nikon.

Also that some of the D3 bodies are not quite as well-sealed against water as the D2x was - one camera was caught in a rain-storm and when the guy went to change lenses, a load of water poured out!
I got away with immersing 2 D2x bodies in a river last year - I'm now reliably informed that trying to do something similar with my new kit is inadvisable...:lol:
 
Merc said:
I'll be very interested to see how the Sigma 85 performs.

RE. Build quality for the 24-70. Jon dropped his camera and 24-70 on the pavement at a wedding we did a couple of weeks ago. The D700 took a bit of damage but the lens is perfectly fine?
Click to expand...

Not saying it will happen (see above) but that it's more likely to, compared to older Pro lenses.
 
Erm surely the Sigma people will talk up their own product......

Hook + line...
 
great review Rob - it's interesting to get a bit of insider info! thank you :)
 
shabba said:
Erm surely the Sigma people will talk up their own product......

Hook + line...
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Hence me saying:
"...if the claims we heard are even close..." - did you actually read all of the post?

I handled the kit and it's a lot better than previous Sigma lenses I've played with.

And I hate Sigma lenses - this is just info for those of you who don't have a multi-££££££ lens budget...
 
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Arkady said:
Hence me saying:
"...if the claims we heard are even close..." - did you actually read all of the post?

I handled the kit and it's a lot better than previous Sigma lenses I've played with.

And I hate Sigma lenses - this is just info for those of you who don't have a multi-££££££ lens budget...
Click to expand...

I am guilty of camera snobbery and have never bought a non Nikon lens but if this Sigma is as good as it sounds, then for me it's a no brainer.
 
Kev M said:
Don't suppose Sony had anything to speak about did they Rob, something to make us believe there is life in the (not so) old dog yet?
Click to expand...

Piecing together what I've found on various sites:

500/4 G protoype, which looks like a cannon (not a Canon)
"standard zoom lens for advanced model", which I assume to mean full frame compatible. 24-105/4, perhaps? 17-50/2.8? Who knows :p
some sources suggest a total of 10 new A mount lenses by 2010
"advanced" DSLT concept (so A77 ?) with HD video but details otherwise lacking.
Lots of E-mount lenses coming (NEX)
New swivel flash (58 replacement?)
 
Interesting to see that the 70-200 will be around the £1200 mark, considering a second hand Nikon VRI is about £950 at present and a new VRII around £1500. I think they'll find it hard to take customers away from the Nikon equivalents.

I loved the 30 1.4 and the 10-20 on my D90, but now I'm in the process of getting shot of my DX lens and buying another D700, I can't see me ever buying another Sigma lens.

I'm still disgusted that you were happy to accept booze from Canon, even if it was free :nono:
 
Arkady said:
All new glassware (courtesy of Hoya who now have a proper partnership with Sigma and will manufacure all Sigma's glass) and japanese QC (facory will remain in Japan and all assembly will continue on the mainland), should address some of the haphazardness of Sigma's offerings.
Other new lenses include:
...
Macro 150 f/2.8 APO DG HSM with full OS throughout
.
Click to expand...

Would you know any more about the role of Hoya? I really love their glass and build. Would it finally make Sigma lenses decent?

150mm sounds extremely tempting. I would be roughly what 100mm was on crop, and that WAS one of my favourite lenses (well too short now, and covered by 85/1.8). Would you think this is a lens without any significant issues, good AF and contrast?
 
daugirdas said:
Would you know any more about the role of Hoya? I really love their glass and build. Would it finally make Sigma lenses decent?

150mm sounds extremely tempting. I would be roughly what 100mm was on crop, and that WAS one of my favourite lenses (well too short now, and covered by 85/1.8). Would you think this is a lens without any significant issues, good AF and contrast?
Click to expand...

Just looking at my notes, I've scribbled what looks like:
"hoya glass exclusive partnership all manufactured in japan"

From what the Hoya bloke was saying they have an exclusive deal with Hoya to produce all Sigma glass to the very highest specs, inc fluorite glass on all exposed optics (apparently dust doesn't stick to it so readily and this is the main reason for using it - it stays cleaner...:shrug:).
They're determined to become the main third-party lens retailer (which I think they already are) as well as offering a significant alternative to Pro lenses offered by Nikon and Canon - which they think they're close to achieving with the new line-up.
Oh, and by the way, whether we accept this or not, lens manufacturers like Sigma regard Nikon as the guys to beat when it comes to lens quality, just so you know...:lol:


"150 f/2.8...with converter 2:1"

They're also making a dedicated converter for just this lens which doubles the focal length and magnifying ratio - I wasn't listening too closely there I'm afraid, as the waitress arrived with my coffee and I was checking-out her legs and bum.
This is supposed to go head-to-head with the Micro-Nikkor and Canon macro lenses.

Anyway we'll be testing those lenses out in Afghanistan - he said we could borrow them for a few weeks and I said to be a real test they'd have to go on a three-month Summer deployment to Helmand; they've now agreed to supply us with a full complememt of 'holy-trinity' lenses and a couple of extras for trials.

The 85 f/1.4 is a dedicated studio and portrait lens (realistically-speaking) so the weather-sealing isn't as much of an issue, whereas pure faultless IQ wide-open is - they think they've cracked it and at less than half the price of the new Nikkor, which I did also handle and which is very nice - but is it £1,000 better than the Sigma? I opted for a second-hand 'old' 85mm f/1.4 as I knew the new one wouldn't be significantly better under the conditions I'll be using it under (indoors mostly or where I have partial or complete control over lighting and subject).
I suspect that this lens will be seriously good and more to the point, seriously affordable.
 
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Dman said:
I'm still disgusted that you were happy to accept booze from Canon, even if it was free :nono:
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HMS forces training - free booze is free booze.

Interesting the DSLR video stuff considering some of the comments often made on here. Obviously the manufacturers see this as a desired feature.
 
Arkady said:
Oh, and by the way, whether we accept this or not, lens manufacturers like Sigma regard Nikon as the guys to beat when it comes to lens quality, just so you know...:lol:
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Or Canon has such a huge lens range that there is gaps in the nikon market for them to exploit? Either way I'd say they've got their reputation as third lens manufacturer already.
 
Byker28i said:
Or Canon has such a huge lens range that there is gaps in the nikon market for them to exploit? Either way I'd say they've got their reputation as third lens manufacturer already.
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No...we asked that - they're not interested in making lenses to exploit gaps, but offering direct competition in the areas already dominated by N & C in the Pro-sector. They're very serious about it.
Fast 24-70; 70-200; fast portrait primes; fast long primes for sports and wildlife photographers.

With the new cameras they're developing they aim to be the third-party camera and lens supplier with pro-bodies to match or better the Nikon and Canon second-tier pro bodies.

The guy we spoke to was previously in product-development at Tamron and moved across because he wanted to be at the top and saw Sigma as a serious contender.

We'll know more after we trial the kit. If it is as good and only half the price, we'll buy it - it's that simple. Belts are getting pulled tighter all round and they know that.
 
Interesting - see what the market is buying as quality lenses and go after that market based on price.
Sounds like a winning plan if they deliver on quality.

They've already gone long with the 500mm, 800mm and 300-800mm RPG lookalike lenses
 
Nice one Arkady - interesting stuff. Be good if Sigma really do step up and provide some decent competition for Canikon.
 
Arkady said:
Just looking at my notes, I've scribbled what looks like:
"hoya glass exclusive partnership all manufactured in japan"

From what the Hoya bloke was saying they have an exclusive deal with Hoya to produce all Sigma glass to the very highest specs, inc fluorite glass on all exposed optics (apparently dust doesn't stick to it so readily and this is the main reason for using it - it stays cleaner...:shrug:).
They're determined to become the main third-party lens retailer (which I think they already are) as well as offering a significant alternative to Pro lenses offered by Nikon and Canon - which they think they're close to achieving with the new line-up.
Oh, and by the way, whether we accept this or not, lens manufacturers like Sigma regard Nikon as the guys to beat when it comes to lens quality, just so you know...:lol:
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That's odd, because Hoya is owned by Tokina, it would be like Nikon producing camera bodies for Canon and aiming to make them better than their own products......
 
Flash In The Pan said:
That's odd, because Hoya is owned by Tokina, it would be like Nikon producing camera bodies for Canon and aiming to make them better than their own products......
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My thoughts exactly there... Well Sony does make the sensors for Nikons... so it is possible!
 
Arkady said:
All new glassware (courtesy of Hoya who now have a proper partnership with Sigma and will manufacure all Sigma's glass) and japanese QC (facory will remain in Japan and all assembly will continue on the mainland), should address some of the haphazardness of Sigma's offerings.
Other new lenses include:
EX 120-300 f/2.8 OS, release scheduled for Spring 2011 @ £3K
EX 70-200 f/2.8 OS @ £1200
Macro 150 f/2.8 APO DG HSM with full OS throughout
300mm f/2.8 (no price yet)
400mm f/2.8 (no price yet)
Click to expand...

This is mega. Although the ranted about QC issues that Sigma have become synonymous with won't be due to the lenses themselves but the design and 'putting together' of the mechanical parts of the lens during manufacture - So I'm not entirely sure how Hoya's involvement will change things for Sigma in this aspect. Siggy have already shown they can develop and mass produce some seriously impressive glass. Take the 12-24 mm, 8-16 mm DC, 8mm circ-fishy, the 200-500 f/2.8 to list but a few. Time will of course tell, but I'm pleased for Sigma and their ambitions since the prices for manufacturers own camera gear is really beyond the average joe, so Sigma with their lower price point, sometimes unique lenses (120-300, 300-800 etc) and typically lower price (ex. the 50mm f1.4) and aiming their sights high I'm all for.

But a 400 2.8 sigma?! I'm intrigued, Do you have any more info on this Rob?

ads
 
Flash In The Pan said:
That's odd, because Hoya is owned by Tokina, it would be like Nikon producing camera bodies for Canon and aiming to make them better than their own products......
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Tokina make, what, 7-8 lenses? Sigma make... 40? And announce at least 2 new lenses per year based on past trends. They probably don't have the R&D of Sigma so can't develop as many new lenses at once - Sigma definitely have the Optical design talents, but having Hoya manufacture the glass means Siggy don't have to worry about the waste cost (there's a lot of rejected items through the lens manufacture process). And Hoya get to benefit from larger Scale of Econ and more ££££'s- I would have thought. This is purely speculation on my part though :D
 
Byker28i said:
HMS forces training - free booze is free booze.

Interesting the DSLR video stuff considering some of the comments often made on here. Obviously the manufacturers see this as a desired feature.
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it is a very desired feature, and nikon have ****ed it up good and proper so far. Can't see whatever they bring out to 'destroy' the 7D and 5d2 that have been slowly and very cautiously been accepted as being useful bits of video kit, UNLESS they make it perfect. none of the HDMI out problems, bad codecs, bad framerate selection, bad audio and manual options. If they could bring out a 4D that shoots 4K video (ok I'm dreaming... :P ), and maybe a few modified primes with gearings for follow focus instead of nice hand grips.... they would be in with a chance.


interesting about the 85 1.4.... helloooo wishlist.
 
adsayer said:
...But a 400 2.8 sigma?! I'm intrigued, Do you have any more info on this Rob?
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No...they didn't have any to play with and the lenses they did have were all in Sigma-fit for their new camera, so I couldn't even fire a few frames off with my D3 to show you some images.

They're going after the Pro news, docco and sports market, that much is certain.

Like I say we'll be getting a full suite of kit by the end of the year (and after I'll have left, so I'll know nothing about it I'm afraid) for a long-term test in Afghan.
 
Rob,

When I heard about the D7000 months ago (I didn't have the name but guessed it) and posted a snippet I had lots of neysayers too. The timing is right for the 4D/D800/D400 next year and that is what I had heard too :suspect:

The 85mm is VERY interesting as is the 70-200. I was going to buy a 70-200 so if Sigma's can better it.......
 
Sigma Stuff sounds promising, I am a fan of the budget lenses they do (no way can I afford the 'pro nikkor' stuff)....glad to see they are looking at their QC too. My 17-70 is pin sharp, my 10-20 is a little off (but that may be because it has an unexpected trip with gravity).
 
Kev M said:
What a joke, another genius bit of MOD procurement.
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it all comes down to money - Canon are obviously bidding lower than Nikon.
It's how all the milatry work I belive - and there is a good quote on Call Of Duty4 which goes something like remember - you are driving around in the lowest valued vechile (meaning the tanks are not built to protect but to save money)

I don;t want to cause a War arguement but money is always involved.
 
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