Photography Workshop

[MWHCVT]

***Admin Authorized Thread***

It is my plan over the coming months to begin offering workshops on various different aspects of night time photography, I'll be offering various different workshops and I'm looking to try and gauge what as photographers you'd expect to pay to attend a workshop...

Now I hear you say that I'm already putting on free light painting meets for the forum, and that is true, the key difference is that the workshops will be limited in the number of people that can attend so where as the night meets I've put on have had in some cases excess of 20 people there the workshops would be limited to 8 people, this would give much more of a personal experience and allow me to concentrate much more of my time on individual help

I'll be doing many different workshops on different aspects of night photography, and also with different numbers in attendance ranging from Solo Workshops which will obviously be the most expensive workshop to workshops with up 8 people in attendance

So that's more than enough rambling and I'll now get to the point...how much would you be willing to pay to attend a Light Painting Workshop on Location featuring Wire Wool Spinning, Light Painting, various Light Tools and there uses etc..This would be with up to 7 other people the workshop would last approx 4 hours and would be largely practical...

All 8 person workshops would be ran by two people both highly experienced in their craft

So please vote on which price band you feel you'd be willing to pay to attend such a workshop

I also welcome any comments that you'd like to leave on why you've voted for a particular price band if you have any

Matt
MWHCVT

 

[Faldrax]

My personal feeling is that a group of 8 is too large for a single tutor to be able to give the more 'personal experience' you are after.

I've been on a number of different workshops since I first got a DSLR several years back, and find that I've had a much better experience when it has been 4-5 plus the tutor.

 

[MWHCVT]

My personal feeling is that a group of 8 is too large for a single tutor to be able to give the more 'personal experience' you are after.

I've been on a number of different workshops since I first got a DSLR several years back, and find that I've had a much better experience when it has been 4-5 plus the tutor.

Should have added that there are two of us

 

[benc98]

I would love something like this near me I assume it would only last a few hours, so anything up to £75 seems reasonable

 

[MWHCVT]

I would love something like this near me I assume it would only last a few hours, so anything up to £75 seems reasonable

Where abouts are you Ben as once we're up and running and hopefully advertising on TP we are planning on workshops around the country so you may well get the chance to attend

 

[benc98]

In the middle of Wiltshire, but willing to travel about a bit

I'll keep an eye out

 

[big soft moose]

The going rate seems to be about £100-150 for an all day photographic workshop , so for an essentially half day (or half night) I'd say £50-75 seems about right

 

[MWHCVT]

In the middle of Wiltshire, but willing to travel about a bit

I'll keep an eye out

I'm sure we shall be heading in that direction in the future

The going rate seems to be about £100-150 for an all day photographic workshop , so for an essentially half day (or half night) I'd say £50-75 seems about right

Indeed and thanks for the input Pete

 

[Faldrax]

Should have added that there are two of us

That makes a big difference - 8 + 2 tutors is a good ratio, so £50-£75 would be the sort of figure I'd be looking to pay, £75-£100 if I had a recommendation from someone who had been on a course.

 

[MWHCVT]

That makes a big difference - 8 + 2 tutors is a good ratio, so £50-£75 would be the sort of figure I'd be looking to pay, £75-£100 if I had a recommendation from someone who had been on a course.

Indeed it does it was a foolish omission from the OP on my part

 

[simonkit]

I run workshops too, in Snowdonia though, and pricing can be a bit tricky as there's quite a lot of competition out there.

I think for a 4hr workshop and maybe taking into consideration that it's a completely new venture so your an unknown quantity (no offence), I'd be tempted to keep a limit of around £50 at the moment and then see how things go

Simon

 

[MWHCVT]

I run workshops too, in Snowdonia though, and pricing can be a bit tricky as there's quite a lot of competition out there.

I think for a 4hr workshop and maybe taking into consideration that it's a completely new venture so your an unknown quantity (no offence), I'd be tempted to keep a limit of around £50 at the moment and then see how things go

Simon

I can fully understand where your coming from

 

[faddius]

£50-£60 would also seem reasonable to me, as whilst I've seen your night shots and they are fantastic, it's a different ball game teaching that skill to others. Unless of course you just reel off which aperture, shutter speed etc to use and little else, but that doesn't necessarily teach the attendee how to cope in other situations when the lighting or the weather isn't exactly the same. Which is what a fair few workshops do unfortunately.

As a usp you should offer all you can drink tea in the colder months

In either case, keep us updated, I'd definitely be interested in attending.

 

[MWHCVT]

£50-£60 would also seem reasonable to me, as whilst I've seen your night shots and they are fantastic, it's a different ball game teaching that skill to others. Unless of course you just reel off which aperture, shutter speed etc to use and little else, but that doesn't necessarily teach the attendee how to cope in other situations when the lighting or the weather isn't exactly the same. Which is what a fair few workshops do unfortunately.

As a usp you should offer all you can drink tea in the colder months

In either case, keep us updated, I'd definitely be interested in attending.

Hi Alex, great points well made, I hope that those who have attended my night meets would attest I try and do a little more than just preach numbers though can confess I was a bit off my game for last weeks meet

The ultimate aim of the workshops is to give those that attend a solid foundation in light painting, learning how light behave when light painting, planning out photos before beginning the exposure is a key aspect to light painting...but there will also be a practical element to the sessions so rather than being show everything the attendees will get involved and try out what they've learnt...

Nice USP idea

 

[sjc1919]

£50 - £60 is a price I would pay and it sounds a great idea. Have been looking for something locally like this as I don't have anyone to drag out with me at night!

Let me know if you are around this area (north Derbyshire)

 

[MWHCVT]

£50 - £60 is a price I would pay and it sounds a great idea. Have been looking for something locally like this as I don't have anyone to drag out with me at night!

Let me know if you are around this area (north Derbyshire)

I will of course I'm trying not to turn this in to an advertising thread as I'm not currently a paid advertiser on the forum and I don't want to abuse the permission I've been given to have this thread but thanks will keep you posted when I can

 

[MWHCVT]

A little evening bump for this thread, interested in those that select the lower values why is this out of interest? Though I'm interested in why anyone that has voted why they've valued the workshop as they have

 

[mattd85]

Location, dates an times I will be on board

 

[MWHCVT]

Location, dates an times I will be on board

but not advertising yet mate

 

[robsea]

Hi Matt, I think £50-75 would be about right, especially as there would be two tutors.

You need to factor in your travelling costs to the site and as this will be a commercial venture don't for get about insurance etc.

 

[MWHCVT]

Hi Matt, I think £50-75 would be about right, especially as there would be two tutors.

You need to factor in your travelling costs to the site and as this will be a commercial venture don't for get about insurance etc.

Hi Rob, insurance is in hand I currently process 5 million in public liability though I'll be meeting my broker to check the policy fully for any issues in a couple of weeks, car is already insured for commercial use too depending on location certain permits maybe required those costs of course would need to be rolled into the workshop, I'll be honest I already had a rough idea of what I'd need to charge to be viable/worth doing but it's great to get some feedback on what my market will accept

 

[robsea]

Hi Matt, did not realise you already held public liability.

 

[MWHCVT]

Hi Matt, did not realise you already held public liability.

Yeah, I need to check the policy fully with my broker in a couple of weeks just to make sure it has us fully covered but its in place and will be confirmed as exactly what I need long before the first workshop takes place insurance is something that I take very seriously one of the reasons I still pay a broker to make sure it's fit for purpose

 

[big soft moose]

Yeah, I need to check the policy fully with my broker in a couple of weeks just to make sure it has us fully covered but its in place and will be confirmed as exactly what I need long before the first workshop takes place insurance is something that I take very seriously one of the reasons I still pay a broker to make sure it's fit for purpose

That should be and interesting conversation

So Mr HCVT what does the workshop actually involve

well i pack a bird feeder full of wire wool then light it and spin it round my head on a chain

Riiiiigggghtt , now about your premium

 

[Metalkoi]

We pay about £55 around our area for a 5 hour bird of prey shoot so i would think around the £50-£70 would be about right

 

[MWHCVT]

That should be and interesting conversation

So Mr HCVT what does the workshop actually involve

well i pack a bird feeder full of wire wool then light it and spin it round my head on a chain

Riiiiigggghtt , now about your premium

Indeed, but he is very good at sorting our families insurance policies he has been working for our family for over 30 years

We pay about £55 around our area for a 5 hour bird of prey shoot so i would think around the £50-£70 would be about right

That's interesting what is involved in the shoot or is it more being guided to the location? Is there much guidance on the BOP Shoot?

 

[big soft moose]

Joking aside - i'm guessing you'll just need to demonstrate that the activity is risk assessed.

If you need any help with that , please feel free to let me know as I do RAs all the time at work - spinning probably isnt anymore inherently dangerous than carrying out tree surgery over a public highway

 

[MWHCVT]

Joking aside - i'm guessing you'll just need to demonstrate that the activity is risk assessed.

If you need any help with that , please feel free to let me know as I do RAs all the time at work - spinning probably isnt anymore inherently dangerous than carrying out tree surgery over a public highway

Indeed I'm going to have to write out a risk assessment, have done written risk assessments in the past. Ironically even on personal shooting sessions I perform a mental RA

 

[MWHCVT]

A little evening bump for this thread, interested in those that select the lower values why is this out of interest? Though I'm interested in why anyone that has voted why they've valued the workshop as they have

Still interested to hear the thoughts of those that have voted in the poll as to why they've voted for what they have, in particular those whom have voted for the lower price band as you've not really been vocal in the thread yet and I'm genuinely interested in why you've selected that valuation of the workshops

Cheers

 

[jacob12_1993]

I've gone with the low end one purely based on experience more than anything. I probably would find it hard to part with a big lump of cash first time if the person teaching had no experience teaching photography workshops (apologies if you do).

 

[robhooley167]

I went low end for a couple of reasons:
1) You're an unknown quantity and you'd need to be experienced and have a reputation before I would even consider handing any money over.
2) Your costs for running a session like that would be quite low I imagine and trying to charge people for something that they know is cheap to do would be taking the mick personally, it's not as if you're hiring models or locations.
3) Light trails and wire wool spinning seems like a very frivolous genre, whereas a portrait/wedding/whatever workshop would be much more applicable to people wanting to learn something of substance and more deserving of higher costs.

Just my 2p

 

[jacob12_1993]

I went low end for a couple of reasons:
1) You're an unknown quantity and you'd need to be experienced and have a reputation before I would even consider handing any money over.
2) Your costs for running a session like that would be quite low I imagine and trying to charge people for something that they know is cheap to do would be taking the mick personally, it's not as if you're hiring models or locations.
3) Light trails and wire wool spinning seems like a very frivolous genre, whereas a portrait/wedding/whatever workshop would be much more applicable to people wanting to learn something of substance and more deserving of higher costs.

Just my 2p

I agree with all these points

 

[Thedodo]

I went low end for a couple of reasons:
1) You're an unknown quantity and you'd need to be experienced and have a reputation before I would even consider handing any money over.
2) Your costs for running a session like that would be quite low I imagine and trying to charge people for something that they know is cheap to do would be taking the mick personally, it's not as if you're hiring models or locations.
3) Light trails and wire wool spinning seems like a very frivolous genre, whereas a portrait/wedding/whatever workshop would be much more applicable to people wanting to learn something of substance and more deserving of higher costs.

Just my 2p

Where is it stated that locations wouldn't be hired?, not to mention the on going costs of replacement materials, Tools etc.
Not everyone is interested in portraits and weddings, if your shooting a photo to be hung in the entrance hall of a quirky office block, a Cleverly light painted building or a star trail in my opinion would be much more suited

 

[Mardybum]

I voted wrong, sorry. I voted before I saw that there were two of you on board. I'd be willing to pay £50-70 for a four hour workshop of this sort. Factoring in your costs, travel, equipment, insurance etc should leave you roughly at £10phpp I reckon which is reasonable I'd say.
I hope the venture goes well Matt, and I'll definitely keep an eye out for one in my area.

Rich

 

[MWHCVT]

I've gone with the low end one purely based on experience more than anything. I probably would find it hard to part with a big lump of cash first time if the person teaching had no experience teaching photography workshops (apologies if you do).

I thank you for your candid response, I'd like to think that my portfolio of images would partly demonstrate my abilities, while I've not done paid workshops as of yet, though have had offers for people wanting to pay in the past I have ran a number of successful fully lead night meets, I'll be the first to say I didn't do as much as I'd normally do on the last one but I was and to some extent still am getting over a nasty chest infection :bang:

I went low end for a couple of reasons:
1) You're an unknown quantity and you'd need to be experienced and have a reputation before I would even consider handing any money over.
2) Your costs for running a session like that would be quite low I imagine and trying to charge people for something that they know is cheap to do would be taking the mick personally, it's not as if you're hiring models or locations.
3) Light trails and wire wool spinning seems like a very frivolous genre, whereas a portrait/wedding/whatever workshop would be much more applicable to people wanting to learn something of substance and more deserving of higher costs.

Just my 2p

Again thanks for the candid and honest response..I'd like to counter a couple of points if I may...as I've said above I have a large portfolio of high quality images in the genre I'll be running workshops for, not to mention the number of workshops that I've ran as meets to test my knowledge and capabilities before even considering offering workshops where people would be paying me I do think that you are wrong to compare these workshops with those for portraiture or weddings those are workshops where people are going are likely to be professionals attending to further there own income stream, I'd also challenge you to find a workshop in those genres that comes in a less that £150

I'd also suggest looking at the cost of most landscape workshops many of which will be coming in at a much higher price that most of the workshops I'll be offering..

Finally my cost, I'm not going to go into to those that greatly, but to say they're a lot higher than you seem to attribute in your post would be accurate as and example a workshop that I'm planning for later this year will have location fees and travel costs well in excess of £250 for a 8 person workshop and that before taking into account other expenses such as insurance, additional supplies etc..many of the workshops will be on private locations and these will require access permits etc all of which will cost money..so I don't think that you truly understand the costs associated with such a workshops hopefully now you do realise that actually there are real costs to this, no to mention both tutors wanting to actually earn a sufficient amount to make it worth there time and effort after spending years learning our art

It's kind of like says a wedding photographer earns £1500 for one days works say that to any of them and you'll likely loose your head

I voted wrong, sorry. I voted before I saw that there were two of you on board. I'd be willing to pay £50-70 for a four hour workshop of this sort. Factoring in your costs, travel, equipment, insurance etc should leave you roughly at £10phpp I reckon which is reasonable I'd say.
I hope the venture goes well Matt, and I'll definitely keep an eye out for one in my area.

Rich

Not a problem Rich, I'll take that into account when I look at the poll results not an advertiser on here just yet so want to try and avoid this becoming a an advertising thread but I'll remember your interest ...see you next month

 

[big soft moose]

1) You're an unknown quantity and you'd need to be experienced and have a reputation before I would even consider handing any money over.

Thats true of any workshop you book - except for the big name photographers like Rowse, Noton, Cornish etc who cost a lot more

Also Matt is hardly an unkwon quantity here on TP - where there is ample evidence of his skill in getting this kind of picture , and running meets helping others get that sort of shot

2) Your costs for running a session like that would be quite low I imagine and trying to charge people for something that they know is cheap to do would be taking the mick personally, it's not as if you're hiring models or locations.

And that differs how from landscape photography for example ? - most landscape photographers don't hire the venues they shoot either (with the exception of sometimes hiring an indoor meeting place)

When you pay someone like Light and Land a couple of hundred quid for a workshop you are paying for their track record in getting fantasic shots, and the time for them to teach you how to do it - its got nothing to do with models or materials

3) Light trails and wire wool spinning seems like a very frivolous genre, whereas a portrait/wedding/whatever workshop would be much more applicable to people wanting to learn something of substance and more deserving of higher costs.

No more frivolous than nature or landscape imo - at the end of the day you are learning how to produce a shot in the given genre , okay so its not likely that anyone who goes on one of matts workhops will go on to spin woool proffesionally - but equally someone attending for example Wild Arena at Marwell isnt going to go away with the skills to be a pro wildlife photographer. In both cases what the client goes away with is some great pics, and the insipration and technique to get similar in the future if they want.

 

[MWHCVT]

Thats true of any workshop you book - except for the big name photographers like Rowse, Noton, Cornish etc who cost a lot more

Also Matt is hardly an unkwon quantity here on TP - where there is ample evidence of his skill in getting this kind of picture , and running meets helping others get that sort of shot



And that differs how from landscape photography for example ? - most landscape photographers don't hire the venues they shoot either (with the exception of sometimes hiring an indoor meeting place)

When you pay someone like Light and Land a couple of hundred quid for a workshop you are paying for their track record in getting fantasic shots, and the time for them to teach you how to do it - its got nothing to do with models or materials



No more frivolous than nature or landscape imo - at the end of the day you are learning how to produce a shot in the given genre , okay so its not likely that anyone who goes on one of matts workhops will go on to spin woool proffesionally - but equally someone attending for example Wild Arena at Marwell isnt going to go away with the skills to be a pro wildlife photographer. In both cases what the client goes away with is some great pics, and the insipration and technique to get similar in the future if they want.

Thanks for the wonderful support Pete, there are a lot more expenses to arranging workshops that many would realise, just like the 3 hour round trip I made yesterday evening to go and take a look around a potential workshop location

 

[posiview]

I've been on a few meets with Matt and I suspect profit isn't isn't his main motivation.

Cheers.

 

[MWHCVT]

I've been on a few meets with Matt and I suspect profit isn't isn't his main motivation.

Cheers.

Thanks Andy and you right profit is not the sole motivator in this enterprise though I'll not deny that I intend to make one