Photography problems at my daughters Ballet Recital

[Les McLean]

CRB Checks are pointless IMHO anyway - a good criminal doesn't get caught - d'oh!

Yes, absolutely agree.

There is nothing (apart from adhering to morally correct behaviour, of course) preventing anybody from offending the moment they have their CRB clearance.

And in line with your comment, there are two classes of people with CRB clearance:
Those who have never offended and those who have not been caught.

Possibly these comments provides proof that the CRB has been effective at protecting children/vulnerable adults, if the criminal is 'good' he/she will never apply for a position that involves working with children/vulnerable adults, knowing any offence/warning/conviction will be thrown up.

I agree, the CRB does not 'catch' sex offenders (that's the job of the police), but it certainly provides a ring fence (not perfect) around some of our most vulnerable groups.

And the CRB is nothing new, I've been requesting police checks on potential employees for around 25 years, it wasn't until 2002 that the CRB actually formalised/centralised the system, also adding a further 'enhanced' check, and broadening the scope of the service so non-statutory bodies could use the service.

 

[artyman]

The CRB will also never filter out the first time offender ( or the first time caught)

 

[itsdavedotnet]

wow, upfront ordering of DVDs...that's a new one! There are plenty of dodgy/total rip off companies doing this around, and dance schools etc will probably either already have one 'on the books', or go for the guy who can offer them the biggest commission or has the glossiest leaflet.

I've seen (as I said) some truly horrendous examples of the DVDs that are sold by these companies at very high prices - the people doing it must be good with sales, because they're certainly not with a video camera!

DVD's will always take a while to edit, but 8 weeks is taking the mickey - I did a 4 day turnaround for a drama performance the other week, that needed to be entered into a competition!

 

[Nikki McLeod]

People are really paranoid about their children these days and what goes on the internet, and "into the wrong hands". How many that photograph children have had the parent that is paranoid about proofing their child's images online....?

It is all becoming PC paranoia.....

I do think the constant flashing would be annoying too; what our school does is get all the children together at the end for a big group shot and let the parents run wild with all their cameras then!

 

[PsiFox]

I'm a member of Lions. We have to be CRB checked now to become a member.

Additionally at events we organise or help out at, sometimes with thousands of people present, if we come a cross a lost child crying, we have to comfort the child at greater than arms length as we are forbidden to even take the child by the hand. Instead we have to shout and attract another's attention who will then find someone (usually St. Johns) who will take the child. Meantime we have to walk backwards (if the child approaches us) away from a distraught crying child wanting some comfort.

 

[Sparkles33]

Possibly these comments provides proof that the CRB has been effective at protecting children/vulnerable adults, if the criminal is 'good' he/she will never apply for a position that involves working with children/vulnerable adults, knowing any offence/warning/conviction will be thrown up.

I agree, the CRB does not 'catch' sex offenders (that's the job of the police), but it certainly provides a ring fence (not perfect) around some of our most vulnerable groups.

And the CRB is nothing new, I've been requesting police checks on potential employees for around 25 years, it wasn't until 2002 that the CRB actually formalised/centralised the system, also adding a further 'enhanced' check, and broadening the scope of the service so non-statutory bodies could use the service.

Didn't stop Ian Huntley and various others. IMHO it's all a bit mad.

 

[Les McLean]

Didn't stop Ian Huntley and various others. IMHO it's all a bit mad.

Ian Huntley was convicted before the CRB came into existence.
And he slipped through the net because the system (as then existed) wasn't applied correctly.

And I agree, the system isn't foolproof (very few systems are), but generally it works, and provides some protection to vulnerable members of society.

 

[G2EWS]

This is an interesting subject that raises it's head as and when we photographer parents want a record of our Children's performances.

I have been very fortunate with my youngest who from the age of 5 until leaving primary school at 11 has every event recorded by me in photos and HD camcorder. Basically I asked the school and they were happy. I also produced fifty copies of each DVD which was overlaid with music to the school so they could give them out to the parents.

Indeed last Christmas the school and parents where horrified that I could not be there.

The law is only put in place by individual councils/governing bodies and it is entirely up to them if they want to ban the use of cameras.

In this case there is something not right with their reasoning. The 'pro' sorting out the film should not be doing so if the council/governing body have made the decision that they don't want pictures taken. It is this that I would address for any future event. Personally I would not get annoyed but ask why this person was allowed to film the show and you were not.

It would also be sensible to contact in this case the local council and ask what their policy is. The chances are they leave it up to the school or body in question.

Now if you are serious and I cannot imagine for one moment as a parent that you are not, then you need to arrange a meeting with the organisers or your Daughter's school. You can explain that you are a photographer and would like to record the event for everyone concerned. It is very low cost to buy 50 DVD's or however many you may need and give these free, either to the school or direct to the parents.

Mine are in most of the homes in this village and I still get calls from parents crying down the phone of how fantastic the DVD is and how clever I am. The thanks are all that I have ever asked and it makes you feel good to have done something for the community.

When my Daughter finished I produced an A3 print which was a collage of photos of the school leavers. They loved it:

Best regards

Chris

 

[itsdavedotnet]

In this case there is something not right with their reasoning. The 'pro' sorting out the film should not be doing so if the council/governing body have made the decision that they don't want pictures taken. It is this that I would address for any future event. Personally I would not get annoyed but ask why this person was allowed to film the show and you were not.

Most companies will offer a commission back to the school, and state in their terms and conditions that members of the audience are not to be allowed to film, in return for this commission, to stop them from having to essentially compete with a free dvd such as the one produced by yourself. Especially the more dodgy companies who have little to offer over the top of what you produce, (ie one person with a camcorder) as opposed to the kind of production that my company produces...

Not policy, not nanny state, just capitalism, and tight school budgets...


oh, and I'll bite my tongue on the whole free vs paid thing, just this once...

 

[G2EWS]

Most companies will offer a commission back to the school, and state in their terms and conditions that members of the audience are not to be allowed to film, in return for this commission, to stop them from having to essentially compete with a free dvd such as the one produced by yourself.

Not policy, not nanny state, just capitalism, and tight school budgets...

I told my Daughter's school that they could sell my DVD's if they wanted! Makes no odds to me.

However, whilst I think you might be right in this case it would still be worth the effort of discussing this as a governing body would find it very difficult to defend against a parent doing what I did. I was a school governor and obviously parent so can say that with some conviction.

Best regards

Chris

 

[SpikeK6]

so the (possible)perv that works for them ,hasn't been caught yet

There is only so much any organisation can do to protect themselves from what you called them

My point was that IF a pro company/person comes in then it should be ok that they are there to take the vid/pics not be perving at the kids.

I agree checks only weed out the ones that have been caught and its not foolproof, but it is a step to make sure people and kids are safe.

spike