Photographing the police and the public, is it allowed?

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heptonstall

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Luke
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I read today about an amateur photographer who took some photos of a guy in Seattle being arrested on the street. The photographer was also arrested for no good reason other then the police didn't like what he was doing. The good news for him is that he successfully sued the police for wrongful arrest.

Link to article here

This story reminded me of a my experience in Leeds where I was taking photographs in the city centre and a policeman came over to me and told me it was illegal for me to take images of him. In fact I was taking images of the general scene and he happened to walk into my shot after about ten minutes of shooting.

So anyway, I stopped taking photos as requested but was a little confused as to the legal issue. Is it really illegal to take photos of a police officer?

In a seperate incident I was taking images of homeless people asking for money outside an opera house as I wanted to capture the clear juxtaposition of rich and poor. A member of staff told me I could not take photographs outside the opera house. I think he wanted to spare the embarrassment of the opera-goers who mostly pretended the homeless people did not exist. Again I was confused, am I within my rights to take such images? The street I was standing on is not owned by the opera house and is not private property.

Can anyone please clear these questions up for me and furthermore, can you offer some advice on how I can respond so that I can keep on taking photographs. In each case I was too much of a coward to stand up for myself and I just put away my camera and stopped shooting but I felt bad about it. I wanted to carry on taking photos and I plan to in future so I would like to know what the laws are regarding such issues.
 
there is another thread about somewhere with some good info on the law but i cant find it :shrug:
 
Thanks Chrisc. The first thread you kindly provided a link for is interesting. After reading the thread it kind of looks like I may be causing a breach of the peace by photographing in a public place but there is no clear indication about it being actually illegal.

Do you have any advice on a good way to respond to the obstructors out there, particularly in the case of the opera house that I mentioned in my post. Should I just say something like - thank you for pointing that out to me but I am not breaking the law and I will continue to take photographs until I am satisfied".

Of course it would help if I knew if I actually was breaking the law or not.
 
clicky1 is the post i was looking for and going by what is says on that i think you weren’t doing anything wrong as it was a public place.

I don’t know about taking pics of the police I live in N.Ireland and even low things have calmed down here I still don’t thing any police officer would appreciate getting there pics took while out on the beat
 
The Police, under this wonderful prevention of terrorism pretext, can basically stop you doing anything they choose to at any given moment.

If they're found to have acted "over-zealously" they may even apologise after the event and the photo op has passed......

Sorry - very cynical response off the back of another thread and not particularly helpful to you. There is no law, per se, preventing you from photographing anybody in a public place.

Except the aforementioned, cover-all, need no evidence, sorry guv, he looked suspect, law.
 
In the college I go too there are some photos of the police got to admit they are a couple of years old tho so the law or the attitude of the police may of changed now best if you can just ask the police if you can take some photos. I know a couple of police officers (low in the ranks ) so I will ask them what they would do
Bob
 
If you have a problem or are unclear about the law and your photography then the best idea is to go and ask a legal professional for advice it is dangerous to ask and take advice from or listen to barrack room lawyers.


Bill
 
all these legal guides are wonderful, but what do you DO when it comes to the crunch?

officer - its not legal for you to take photos of me / this building / street / person, its suspicious activity

you - it is legal, I know it is, I read it in a magasine & on the internet

officer - ha ha ha I'm a policeman, I know everything and its not legal and I'll have to confiscate / delete your film / images

you - no, you're wrong that's not allowed it would be assault, please contact your superiors for clarification

officer - in that case I'm arresting you under the prevention of terrorism act and you're obstructing a police officer in his duty, will you come quietly? or is it the old trunchion & 'cuffs mate? give me the camera
bang thud smash​

so what do you do when you get to your cell?, you're held on a terrorism offence and they've deleted/broken your camera. Are you allowed to contact the forum for advise? Who do you call?, isnt a terrorism charge a single cell indefinately, bright light stuff and no lawyers.
Eventually if you get out can you sue them & what for?
for the damaged equipment, the bang on the head by trunchion or bullet wounds cos you tried to hold onto your camera, your time, the lost images, the strip search, the public humiliation, your job, the wife's time & distress leading to her lost job the heart attack & the funeral costs, the kid's bullying at school because their dad's now a registered criminal / terrorist / P****, their failed exams . . .

well?
 
I think your biggest fear should be when they confiscate your camera and find that a child appears anywhere in any frame as this would make you a p**** especially if it was summer time.

The law in this country is barmy and so are half the people who live here the climate of fear is only ging to get worse so get out and take pictures while you still can!
 
Wookie said:
all these legal guides are wonderful, but what do you DO when it comes to the crunch?
Click to expand...

You remain calm, politely state your case and take the officers details. You do not resist in any way.

Apparently, Cam phones are invisible so you might want to record the whole event for posterity.

:D:lol:
 
Wookie said:
all these legal guides are wonderful, but what do you DO when it comes to the crunch?

officer - its not legal for you to take photos of me / this building / street / person, its suspicious activity

you - it is legal, I know it is, I read it in a magasine & on the internet

officer - ha ha ha I'm a policeman, I know everything and its not legal and I'll have to confiscate / delete your film / images

you - no, you're wrong that's not allowed it would be assault, please contact your superiors for clarification

officer - in that case I'm arresting you under the prevention of terrorism act and you're obstructing a police officer in his duty, will you come quietly? or is it the old trunchion & 'cuffs mate? give me the camera
bang thud smash​
Click to expand...

you- Thanks, I've been looking for a couple of grand to get an new camera and that wrongful arrest payout will do nicely.:lol:

Wookie said:
so what do you do when you get to your cell?, you're held on a terrorism offence and they've deleted/broken your camera. Are you allowed to contact the forum for advise? Who do you call?, isnt a terrorism charge a single cell indefinately, bright light stuff and no lawyers.
Eventually if you get out can you sue them & what for?
for the damaged equipment, the bang on the head by trunchion or bullet wounds cos you tried to hold onto your camera, your time, the lost images, the strip search, the public humiliation, your job, the wife's time & distress leading to her lost job the heart attack & the funeral costs, the kid's bullying at school because their dad's now a registered criminal / terrorist / P****, their failed exams . . .

well?
Click to expand...

Sue them for wrongful arrest, deleting/breaking evidence/your property without a lawful reason, the loss of your images (because after all they were a commission worth hundreds) the stress of being arrested and humiliated for wrong reasons. I'm sure the few grand from that, and maybe the knowledge the police officer who did it got nicely reprimanded would cover the couple of hours in a cell.;)
 
a1ex2001 said:
I think your biggest fear should be when they confiscate your camera and find that a child appears anywhere in any frame as this would make you a p**** especially if it was summer time.

The law in this country is barmy and so are half the people who live here the climate of fear is only ging to get worse so get out and take pictures while you still can!
Click to expand...

Even if the child in the image was running around naked there would still most likely be no evidence to charge you with that. If there were quite a few images then maybe it would be different. It's not illegal to take pictures of naked children, thankfully, or thousands of parents would be arrested for taking pictures of their own children.
 
The problem is that alot of police officers don't know anything about photogaphy law and just assume that you can't take a picture of them because they don't want you to!

Of course, you can take pictures of nearly anything in public in the UK (few exceptions covered by Official Secrets Act 1911 - such as Dockyards etc...).

I cannot see anyone ever getting arrested under the Terrorism Act for taking pictures in the street. I suppose alot of it comes down to common courtesy as well though - if i was a police officer ;) then I wouldn't really want people taking pictures of me although I wouldn't be seizing cameras and the like :lol:
 
chrisc said:
well- i think you are going OTT there
Click to expand...
I do not think wookies advice is OTT and you wouldn't if you were to behave the same way as the tog in his tale.
 
Galaxy66 said:
I do not think wookies advice is OTT and you wouldn't if you were to behave the same way as the tog in his tale.
Click to expand...

Does that include the $8000 he got in compensation for being held for an hour and not charged?

Wookies advice had nothing to do with the story in the OP, it was rather OTT.:)
 
I was going to reply with a long,educated and experienced post, however , the paranoia displayed is obviously deeply routed and is irreversible.

Go your own way............:)
 
I happen to know a number of police officers very well (one of which who is a very keen photographer) and I have discussed this issue with them. The answers are;

Act like a grown up.

Do not make cynical remarks and express the negativity towards the officer that has been displayed in this post!

Allow the officer to explain that he or she is only doing their job, and that they will have you on your way as soon as possible.

When asked your intentions, simply state them. Common sense will prevail. If it doesn't, do not cause further problems, note the officers collar numbers (which should be provided on the Stop and Account form anyhow), and in due course make a complaint either on the telephone or in writing addressed to their Chief Constable. If there is a training issue, it will be addressed.

Unfortunately, as in any job, there will be some officers who are either unsure of their powers in this field - their defence (a reasonable one) is that this is a little used part of law.

If people are still concerned the advice is to print a copy out of the relevant legislation and carry it in your camera case. It is suggested particularly the part about photographing in public, and that officers have no power to sieze your equipment without good cause.

Some officers LOVE their picture being taken. Look at the firearms officers posing outside Windsor castle every day, with people hanging around their necks. Others however hate it and avoid it at all costs. It is worth bearing in mind that officers may wish to promote or apply for roles where they will need to be undercover, or on surveillance. A semi pro looking photographer sticking his 400mmL into his face is going to upset him for fear of appearing on the front of the local rag. Common sense people!

I am assured it is all about communicating effectively, this post is becoming increasingly negative and should some of these suggestions and aggression be displayed, I would suggest that the police will almost certainly look less favourably on you!

Gary
 
Amp34 said:
Does that include the $8000 he got in compensation for being held for an hour and not charged?

Wookies advice had nothing to do with the story in the OP, it was rather OTT.:)
Click to expand...

To put it another way, if policeman were to say to me, in any circumstances, "sir would you mind putting that camera away", I would say "yes sorry officer".

Or for a more concise version of my point read the above post, thanks chenng.
 
Galaxy66 said:
To put it another way, if policeman were to say to me, in any circumstances, "sir would you mind putting that camera away", I would say "yes sorry officer".

Or for a more concise version of my point read the above post, thanks chenng.
Click to expand...

I agree completely with what chenng said, act civil and be polite and you shouldn't get arrested in the first place but I disagree with your post. Would you do the same thing if a police officer pulled you over and gave you 6 points for doing nothing wrong, without explaining why? I doubt very much. As stated lots of times already in this thread be polite and curitious and ask why, then calmly state you are legally allowed to.

Ok yes I wouldn't do that in a lot of cases, I would just stop shooting, but in some cases, if I really wanted to take the shot then I would stand up for myself, and most people should do that too.
 
>>>>Would you do the same thing if a police officer pulled you over and gave you 6 points for doing nothing wrong, without explaining why? I doubt very much.<<<<<

No! and it has nothing to do with the op!

>>>>Ok yes I wouldn't do that in a lot of cases, I would just stop shooting,<<<<< :)
 
Galaxy66 said:
>>>>Would you do the same thing if a police officer pulled you over and gave you 6 points for doing nothing wrong, without explaining why? I doubt very much.<<<<<

No! and it has nothing to do with the op!
Click to expand...

But it's a similar comparison to a police officer doing something to you unlawfully and you just giving in without a fight.:)
 
Amp34 said:
But it's a similar comparison to a police officer doing something to you unlawfully and you just giving in without a fight.:)
Click to expand...

Tell you what, I will let you have the last word............if you do not count this one;):exit:
 
I bought this months "Digital Camera" magazine as it has a few excellent pages of legal advice on street photography & the law - even has pictures to help judge different situations. Well worth a read :thumbs:
 
moomike said:
- even has pictures to help judge different situations. Well worth a read :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Sounds good, makes me think we could do something like that, it would Make a good thread for a start ...or maybe our own tutorial Guide after a professional eye has taken a look at it etc.


Like this one.

In My Opinion; This is a legal shot, I can sell it, as long as I'm mindful not to cast any dispersions on its contents.

Shot at 200mm in a public place. On the Thames Embankment, London. Through I thick crowd at about 40ft.


Youtakintome.jpg


I'm I wrong!?
 
Ad - just seen the logo - love it mate. :) On reflection it has a better ring to it than 'finger' :lol::lol::lol:
 
Isn't the Thames embankment private property now? (Ive only ever been to london once, and it wasnt anywhere near the Thames so forgive me..lol)

Ad, just seem the logo...love that slogan :D
 
If they expect you to comply then ask tem to disable all public facing CCTV immediately for the exact same reason! :D
 
This guy didn't seem to mind me...

police.JPG
 
heptonstall said:
Thanks Chrisc. The first thread you kindly provided a link for is interesting. After reading the thread it kind of looks like I may be causing a breach of the peace by photographing in a public place but there is no clear indication about it being actually illegal.

Do you have any advice on a good way to respond to the obstructors out there, particularly in the case of the opera house that I mentioned in my post. Should I just say something like - thank you for pointing that out to me but I am not breaking the law and I will continue to take photographs until I am satisfied".

Of course it would help if I knew if I actually was breaking the law or not.
Click to expand...

I got stopped from taking photographs in an "exclusive" precinct in Edinburgh by an over zealous security guard. I apologised and put my camera away and that was that. IMHO that is the best thing to do - be polite and stop, don't argue. There is always another day.
 
Jonnyreb said:
Ad - just seen the logo - love it mate. :) On reflection it has a better ring to it than 'finger' :lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...

I didn't want to mix business with pleasure after all... :D
What am I saying, thats a total lie, I want the line between business and pleasure to me almost indistinguishable.


Marcel said:
Isn't the Thames embankment private property now? (Ive only ever been to london once, and it wasnt anywhere near the Thames so forgive me..lol)

Ad, just seem the logo...love that slogan :D
Click to expand...

Lol, Well I'm sure it isn't, or wasn't ...but who knows what'll happen to it this week...

Ta Guys...glad you like it, kinda suites me in more ways than one I'm ashamed to say. ;);)
 
i cant see a prob with any of those shots. . pretty good shots of plod having a word/interacting with a member of the general public.
ive printed the page(chapter thirteen) on legal matters and rights to shoot in public. i,ll get my mrs to take a copy on her near future trip to london.
thanks slipper-one.... slipper-one. fnarr fnarr.sorry.:lol:
 
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