Photographing Children

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Craig Denton
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It seems just recently that im reading more and more about people photographing children in a purley innocent capacity, and being reprimanded for it.

And im getting really ****ing annoyed now. if this happened to me, taking pictures of my kids whilst i was out, id be arrested before id stop.

What i cant get my head around it how thick these people are, surely if you were doing this because you were a peodaphile, you wouldnt do it so blatently, it would be on a camera phone or you would be hidden somewhere wouldnt you?

If it was such a huge issue, it would be a law, for all situations, right accross the board. How can you not be allowed to take a picture in a park, yet recently i shot 300 frames at my sons school sports day with a D300 and 70-300 lens, and no one batted an eyelid, not like i wouldnt have been noticed!!!!

/Rant over
 
Monkey : Is the url in yer sig the right one?
 
Calm down dear ;)

If someone does challenge you, no point getting wound up and angry with them. Smile sweetly and ask exactly what you are doing wrong, make sure you have a simple answer for everything they throw at you. They will soon realise THEY are in the wrong and back off.

If you get mad, it looks like you are in the wrong and are trying to defend your actions.

I for one, cant wait to be challenged for the first time, there will be hell to pay :D:D
 
Smile sweetly and ask exactly what you are doing wrong

Lol this is Britain , Smiling sweetly doesn't work anymore in this country! :p
 
Pirate Neilsouth said:
Smile sweetly and ask exactly what you are doing wrong

Lol this is Britain , Smiling sweetly doesn't work anymore in this country! :p
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This situation does seem to be getting out of hand, and to be honest, I think that most people who would make an issue of photographing children don't really have an axe to grind, but are simply jumping on a bandwagon which has become a juggernaut. They don't really appreciate the issue, but like to try and demonstrate that they think they do, and are being public spirited.

The simple answer is that you have the right to take pictures of your own children, and others in a public place, with the full backing of the law. What you do with the pictures is another matter, but of no concern when considering the general issues of freedom.

With the exception of some issues determined by the Official secrets act, and newer anti-terrorist legislation, there is no reason under current laws that stop you taking pictures of anybody, or anything, in a public place, so shoot away knowing that you have the full backing of the law, both legislated, and common.

If you are stopped forcibly, or even verbally, taking photographs in a public place, don't argue beyond reason, simply take out your mobile phone, and contact the police. They have an obligation to defend your rights.

The UK Bureau of Professional Photographers issues it's member with a card that reads:

There is no law in the United Kingdom preventing a photographer - whether amateur or professional - from taking photographs in a public place. Nor do individuals have a legal right to stop a photographer from photographing them. Thus a photographer is perfectly free to shoot street scenes, landscapes, buildings people, etc without breaking any law and with perfect freedom to do so.

It might be useful to print this, and laminate it, and keep it in your camera bag. It quite clearly states the rights of a photographer, and should be sufficient to turn away all but the most obstinate of idiots!!

Jaqui Smith, the Home Secretary went on record THIS YEAR, and clarified the situation thus.......

The letter dated 26 June, which BJP has seen a copy of, is in response to correspondence sent by the Union secretary general, Jeremy Dear, who expressed concern at police surveillance of journalists, in particular photographers.

'First of all, may I take this opportunity to state that the Government greatly values the importance of the freedom of the press, and as such there is no legal restriction on photography in public places,' Smith writes. 'Also, as you will be aware, there is no presumption of privacy for individuals in a public place.'

Out of the horses mouth as it were. Snap away, at what you want, and don't let anymody stop you.
 
Pirate Neilsouth said:
Smile sweetly and ask exactly what you are doing wrong

Lol this is Britain , Smiling sweetly doesn't work anymore in this country! :p
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Ohh, it does. I see scandalous things got away with almost daily on the back of nothing more than a :D and perhaps a ;)


The issue of snapping kids is getting so far out af hand that while it might be within the law now, I can see that changing soon. :(
 
here we go again :)


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Dad has taken his little girls to the park and there on the swings.. he looks behind him and your there taking pictures of his little girls... Rightly or Wrongly he isn't happy. But being of sound mind you knew he wouldn't be happy.. But your doing nothing wrong eh?

Dad is furious and marches over to you. You get your little laminated card out and .....Well can anyone tell me what happens next in the real world?
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Seriously.. Anyone believe he will go away happy? Don't worry about the right and wrong or the legal illegal.. Just wake up to the real world and know that parents will get upset and no laminated card saying your allowed will help you..

Or am I in a different world... possibly :)
 
Or am I in a different world...
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Not to mine, I'm with you there.

But it gets complicated when I'm the snapper AND the Dad.
 
KIPAX said:
same here.. but then again I am not going to confront me :)
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No, but the mum of the kid on the next swing comes to moan that you're shooting her little boy. Show you're not but there's the thought that you could be.

Do you carry on with the law 100% behind you and let your kids see fight off the angry mob, or do just call it day?
 
KIPAX said:
here we go again :)


***************************************************
Dad has taken his little girls to the park and there on the swings.. he looks behind him and your there taking pictures of his little girls... Rightly or Wrongly he isn't happy. But being of sound mind you knew he wouldn't be happy.. But your doing nothing wrong eh?

Dad is furious and marches over to you. You get your little laminated card out and .....Well can anyone tell me what happens next in the real world?
****************************************************

Seriously.. Anyone believe he will go away happy? Don't worry about the right and wrong or the legal illegal.. Just wake up to the real world and know that parents will get upset and no laminated card saying your allowed will help you..

Or am I in a different world... possibly :)
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I think you are in a different world - a safe and cosy one.

As you so succinctly put it, rightly or wrongly, he isn't happy. So what!!?? If you give in, you are abrogating your legal rights, and he is getting away with inflating both his temper, and his ego, and breaking the law.!!

We have the right at the moment to photograph what we will in public, and we have to stand up for this right and tell people they are wrong. The more we let people get away with this sort of behaviour, the sooner the swell of minority public opinion will persuade the government to change the law in their favour.

They are prepared to act unlawfully to 'stand up for their rights', and we should be prepared to act lawfully for ours. Don't let them get away with it, stand up for your rights, be polite, and call the cops.

The fact that members of the public who are prepared to stand up to bullies are getting fewer and fewer is the single most important reason that society is the way it is today. If more people stood up for their rights, informed on the bullies, helped the police, and acted in a public spirited manner, then the bullies would realise that their behaviour will no longer be tolerated. Tell the police that their failure to attend might lead to a breach of the peace, and that you will hold them responsible if it does. The call will be recorded, and it should make them move their lardy arses.

Very very few people will resort to violence, or to criminal damage, or the theft of your equipment. Those that would will probably have already taken some sort of action against your person, so it will probably make no difference. If they do act illegally, then you have them at a distinct disadvantage!!

We must be firm, otherwise we could face a situation where the only place you can take photographs without critiscism is in the privacy of your own home.
 
dazzajl said:
No, but the mum of the kid on the next swing comes to moan that you're shooting her little boy. Show you're not but there's the thought that you could be.

Do you carry on with the law 100% behind you and let your kids see fight off the angry mob, or do just call it day?
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Call it a day.. Lose out.. yer not going to win. Probably wasn't wise to do it in the first place, and YES I KNOW thats not right.. It's just the way it is. My point is that the law isn't going to help you in situations like that. park keeper, Security guard maybe. Although I have my doubts that they would take it as fact something you could make in 5 mins on yourscomputer and write anything :)

I aint saying it's right. just wise enough to know thats how it is :(
 
dougdarter said:
As you so succinctly put it, rightly or wrongly, he isn't happy. So what!!?? If you give in, you are abrogating your legal rights, and he is getting away with inflating both his temper, and his ego, and breaking the law.!!.
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Have you seen an irate father who thinks he is protecting his little girls.. Believe me a plastic card aint gonna help. Your views are great and I wish they where true .. I wish thats how it is... But lets face it. that aint how it is. Theres no way on this earth all the photographers in the world standing up for there rights will change irate dads feelings at that moment.... no way at all.
 
KIPAX said:
Have you seen an irate father who thinks he is protecting his little girls.. Believe me a plastic card aint gonna help. Your views are great and I wish they where true .. I wish thats how it is... But lets face it. that aint how it is. Theres no way on this earth all the photographers in the world standing up for there rights will change irate dads feelings at that moment.... no way at all.
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I have seen things which you wouldn't believe possible. I was a cop for 20 years.

I also know, that if you respond reasonably, and by reasonably I mean by listening to his arguement, then trying to persuade him of yours, then there is probably only one in one hundred people that would resort to physical violence.

Arguing with an 18 stone thug, who you know is going to hurt you is NOT acting reasonably, and discretion would most definitely be the better part of valour, but stopping what your are doing legally because someone doesn't like it, or threatens legal action is a nonsense. 99% or more of people are decent, non threatening and law abiding. These are the people we must persuade that they are wrong. Agreeing, or sympathising with their views is just plain dumb!
 
dougdarter said:
I also know, that if you respond reasonably, and by reasonably I mean by listening to his arguement, then trying to persuade him of yours, then there is probably only one in one hundred people that would resort to physical violence.
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Well your advice is for people to carry a plastic card saying there allowed and to speak nice.

My advice is to wake up and smell the coffee.. realise it's a nasty old world out there and realise that people will get upset if they see you taking pictures of children.. Rightly or wrongly thats what happens.

That's me and you with different opinions. which is what makes the world go around :) :)
 
KIPAX said:
Well your advice is for people to carry a plastic card saying there allowed and to speak nice.

My advice is to wake up and smell the coffee.. realise it's a nasty old world out there and realise that people will get upset if they see you taking pictures of children.. Rightly or wrongly thats what happens.

That's me and you with different opinions. which is what makes the world go around :) :)
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If that's how you interpret my advice, then why did you take issue with it:lol:
 
So you back down every time you do something that somebody doesn't like? Whether they have the law on their side or not?

Sorry, I'm only 5'4" but I'm for standing my ground.

I had this in Leeds when I was doing some architectural shots for my OU course. The pics happened to have an outdoor ice rink in them and there were children on the ice. I was shooting fairly wide so they were little specs, you could not make them out at all. Cue security guard. "You can't take pictures here, it's against the law"

"Oh really? Which law would that be then?"

"Child protection act"

"That's strange, which section of this act does it say I can't do this?" Says I showing him that they are indeed tiny little dots. "Because I'm an ex Police Officer and I've never heard such nonsense!"

"Well my boss says so"

"Ok, so you run along and tell your boss he is talking out of his arse before I call the real cops, now be a good chap and leave me alone, I'm not doing anything illegal or even morally wrong ok? See, look at the camera and you can tell your boss it's fine"

Cue departing security guard (who was actually OK)
 
AliB said:
So you back down every time you do something that somebody doesn't like?
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Wow.. talk about taking something to extremes. :)

I wouldnt bother arguing the toss with an irate father in a park who looks like he wants to murder me... For crying out loud how does that compute to what you just said? Jeeze your stretching it there arn't you? :)
 
AliB said:
So you back down every time you do something that somebody doesn't like? Whether they have the law on their side or not?

Sorry, I'm only 5'4" but I'm for standing my ground.

I had this in Leeds when I was doing some architectural shots for my OU course. The pics happened to have an outdoor ice rink in them and there were children on the ice. I was shooting fairly wide so they were little specs, you could not make them out at all. Cue security guard. "You can't take pictures here, it's against the law"

"Oh really? Which law would that be then?"

"Child protection act"

"That's strange, which section of this act does it say I can't do this?" Says I showing him that they are indeed tiny little dots. "Because I'm an ex Police Officer and I've never heard such nonsense!"

"Well my boss says so"

"Ok, so you run along and tell your boss he is talking out of his arse before I call the real cops, now be a good chap and leave me alone, I'm not doing anything illegal or even morally wrong ok? See, look at the camera and you can tell your boss it's fine"

Cue departing security guard (who was actually OK)
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Ali, as an ex cop, you should know that an outdoor ice rink is a private, not a public place.:eek: The rent - a - cop was actually within his rights. The owner of the property is quite entitled to make whatever rules he see's fit about photography, so you were, legally speaking at least, wrong, if not morally.

Well done for standing your ground though.
 
In your original post you said that parents get upset.

My point is that if you are doing nothing wrong, either legally OR morally then why do you feel you have to back down?

It's not a reasonable way of dealing with confrontation. It's not taking anything to extremes at all.
 
KIPAX said:
Wow.. talk about taking something to extremes. :)

I wouldnt bother arguing the toss with an irate father in a park who looks like he wants to murder me... For crying out loud how does that compute to what you just said? Jeeze your stretching it there arn't you? :)
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Kipax,

I doubt that there are more than half a dozen 'togs who have been assaulted by a member of the public for photographing their kids in the last 5 years. People are more reasonable than you seem to assume, and talking about it calmly and politely will in practically every case lead to a satisfactory resolution.

All I, and others are saying is that it is OK to do it, and you shouldn't stop just because someone tells you you should. Stick up for your rights, and use a sound arguement. If it doesn't work, then is the time to show discretion.
 
AliB said:
In your original post you said that parents get upset.

My point is that if you are doing nothing wrong, either legally OR morally then why do you feel you have to back down?

It's not a reasonable way of dealing with confrontation. It's not taking anything to extremes at all.
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Ali,

Please use the quote button, otherwis it becomes difficult to understand who you are directing your comments at. Thanks.:)
 
dougdarter said:
Ali, as an ex cop, you should know that an outdoor ice rink is a private, not a public place.:
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I was not in the ice rink or even near it! I was about 300 yards away from it taking pics of the town hall! That's why I stood my ground.

And it was a public place because it was a temporary one erected in the square outside the town hall, on public property. I'm not that daft m8 :D
 
dougdarter said:
Ali, as an ex cop, you should know that an outdoor ice rink is a private, not a public place.:eek: The rent - a - cop was actually within his rights. The owner of the property is quite entitled to make whatever rules he see's fit about photography, so you were, legally speaking at least, wrong, if not morally.
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Does it not make a difference if the ice rink merely happened to be in the shot, rather than the subject? Along the same lines that you can't mount a CCTV camera on your house to watch the street (a public place) but if the street just happens to be in frame then anything recorded can be used in court?
 
dougdarter said:
All I, and others are saying is that it is OK to do it, and you shouldn't stop just because someone tells you you should. Stick up for your rights, and use a sound arguement. If it doesn't work, then is the time to show discretion.
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Yeagh I get it.. Thats what you think one should do.. I think otherwise. hence my post saying we have a difference of opinion. Are you trying to change mine or force yours on me ? We have a difference of opinion.. Try to come to terms with it. It aint the end of the world:)
 
AliB said:
I was not in the ice rink or even near it! I was about 300 yards away from it taking pics of the town hall! That's why I stood my ground.

And it was a public place because it was a temporary one erected in the square outside the town hall, on public property. I'm not that daft m8 :D
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You were absolutely within your rights then:D Sorry, I misunderstood your post.
 
KIPAX said:
Yeagh I get it.. Thats what you think one should do.. I think otherwise. hence my post saying we have a difference of opinion. Are you trying to change mine or force yours on me ? We have a difference of opinion.. Try to come to terms with it. It aint the end of the world:)
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I would never try to force an opinion on anyone - well perhaps my wife:gag:
 
This subject comes up time and time again, and I never understand -

why make taking photos so hard?

You can take photos of anything any time anywhere if you have the access, the permission, and the credentials allowing you to do so

- often all you have to do is ask..:rules:

look at this way if you speak to the parents and explain what you are doing, why you are doing it and get them happy with the idea then you will get better photos and possibly get sales from the parents/ grandparents /mother /sister / grandfather.... even the 18stone thug likes his kids - if he didn't - why would he be in the park playing with them?

A company i work for pays me to cover some family running races, and part of my job is to take photos of family groups, before the event sometimes with the parents sometimes with just the kids, - it's never a problem - the parents are happy to have photos of their kids
 
This subject is amazing :bang:

How about someone starting a poll on here so that all togs can say whether they would allow a total stranger to take pictures of their kids playing in a public park :D

By the way as far as I'm concerned if I was confronted by a prat accusing me of being a pervert I think I would take great pleasure in smacking him or her in the mouth :D
 
Splog said:
This subject is amazing :bang:

How about someone starting a poll on here so that all togs can say whether they would allow a total stranger to take pictures of their kids playing in a public park :D

By the way as far as I'm concerned if I was confronted by a prat accusing me of being a pervert I think I would take great pleasure in smacking him or her in the mouth :D
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i can honestly say i wouldnt mind..

Because i honestly cant see what benefit a picture of my son playing would be to a p****.

We all ( kids included ) are on cctv all over, all day long
 
Monkey said:
i can honestly say i wouldnt mind..

Because i honestly cant see what benefit a picture of my son playing would be to a p****.

We all ( kids included ) are on cctv all over, all day long
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I wouldn't mind either :shrug: (if I had kids that is..:D), what I meant by the poll thing is lets see if there's any hipocracy about this, personally I can't see the problem...
 
Parents say don't take photos of my kids, yet when I out shooting I'm always get kids asking me to take their photo. :cuckoo:
 
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