Photographers getting stopped

blinkerz

blinkerz

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Im noticing a real surge in police stopping photographers in London with what they call 'Big Lens' and asking them for details such as address and the nature of the photography. I was stopped the other week, they wanted to see some form of ID as well. I wouldnt mind but after people look at you as though you have done something wrong. Do the terrorists really care about limited DOF and the extra sharpness of buildings for there next plot?.

What really annoyed me today, was seeing some poor fella stopped by 2 policeman. They really went indepth this time, they spoke to him for about 20mins, and i saw him showing the pictures he had taken on the back of the camera. Does anyone else think this is gone too far?, also does anyone else have any experiences of being stopped by the police for having a 'large camera':bang: :bang:
 
Its been this way for a few years now. A photographer was stopped in London for taking photos of Parliament by the police. His bag was searched if I remember rightly. He was on a job that required him to take photos of Parliament, I think by someone there. Given how small cameras are these days a terrorist could easily take photos without being spotted. They could google the location or anything. It is stupid. This happened to me.
 
So far I have never been stopped [yes, I know I just jinxed myself saying that] - maybe being female attracts less attention, I don't know, but I have waved both Nikons around near parliament, the eye, even on tube stations recently, etc....now my point is this - if you are a terrorist plotter, are you going to go down there with a bloody great DSLR and full kit looking like david bailey on steroids, or are you going to blend in with all the other tourists and take a good point & shoot with half decent zoom? It's a no brainer really, you make yourself invisible surely, not flamin obvious! :thinking:
 
LadyLens said:
So far I have never been stopped [yes, I know I just jinxed myself saying that] - maybe being female attracts less attention, I don't know, but I have waved both Nikons around near parliament, the eye, even on tube stations recently, etc....now my point is this - if you are a terrorist plotter, are you going to go down there with a bloody great DSLR and full kit looking like david bailey on steroids, or are you going to blend in with all the other tourists and take a good point & shoot with half decent zoom? It's a no brainer really, you make yourself invisible surely, not flamin obvious! :thinking:
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Or even a camera phone... :bonk:

I think maybe they should spend a little more time catching criminals than annoying and searching ordinary people who are not covertly trying to hide what they are doing, is there no longer any 'common sense'...:bang:
 
Its absolutely insane, a total erosion of civil liberties. I can understand members of the public being a bit worried about having their picture taken by a stranger, its a 'personal space' thing, but when its just pictures of buildings for goodness sake! :bonk: :bonk:
 
Glad its not just me then getting stopped:), i wouldnt mind i dont even go around sneaking in the bushes taking shots for street photography, im in the open. As for buildings, its not hard for people to get images of big ben / london eye from thousands of google images. Thanks for the links above though, i think il only quarter fill memory cards, that way i wont lose many images:thumbs:
 
Of course not every terrorist is going to slink around with a small slim point and shoot, there is such a thing as hiding in plain sight.

That said I think it's more likely a terrorist would want to stay anonymous, so if the Police are going to go stopping photographers (for whatever reason) they should really be stopping all photographers regardless of the kit they carry.
 
I guess the trick is to wear a loud Hawiian shirt and say "Mable come look at this" at regular intervals in a loud American accent.

Apologies to any non loud Americans :)
 
The funny thing is, I actually think it is worse in this country than it is in America at the moment.

I was stopped in San Francisco's ferry terminal a few months ago, setting up my tripod and using my 300mm lens. 2 security guards came over to me, asked if I was making money on these shots (no mention of security / terrorist threat - just profit). Once I told them they were for personal use, they seemed more interested in the purpose of the spirit level on top of the camera !!!

I appreciate the need for extra security in today's world, but it has gone mad the way togs are regularly stopped and asked to 'prove' what they are doing.

Anth.
 
I could see me getting annoyed if I got stopped everytime I went out with a camera, but I guess with the semi-recent increase in the terroism threats then this is one of the things that is going to happen. Granted they may have missed the boat on exactly what a terroist will use, but then again its not like photographers are being locked up and questioned about it. Just simply stopped and asked a few questions.
 
Oddly I've had more trouble in Liverpool than London.
 
LadyLens said:
So far I have never been stopped [yes, I know I just jinxed myself saying that] - maybe being female attracts less attention, I don't know, but I have waved both Nikons around near parliament, the eye, even on tube stations recently, etc....now my point is this - if you are a terrorist plotter, are you going to go down there with a bloody great DSLR and full kit looking like david bailey on steroids, or are you going to blend in with all the other tourists and take a good point & shoot with half decent zoom? It's a no brainer really, you make yourself invisible surely, not flamin obvious! :thinking:
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Im female, and Ive been stopped (once though), luckily it wasnt as harsh as some stories Ive read/heard, as I wasnt taking pictures of any government locations. They didnt ask to see ID or try to confiscate my camera/pictures, they just told me to run along little girl. Or something to that effect.
 
The silly thing is say one of these Doctors that tried to blow up Glasgow airport had gone up there with a DSLR to take pictures beforehand to recce the place and he had been stopped by police he's hardly going to say, Hello Officer i'm an extremist wanting to blow your airport up and would like a couple of pictures of said target.

He's gonna say, Hello Officer my name is xyz and i'm a Doctor, here is my ID i'm a British Citizen and just wanted some pics of the Airport as i haven't been here before, Officer says carry on sir.

Its completely pointless to stop people.
 
ppp said:
The silly thing is say one of these Doctors that tried to blow up Glasgow airport had gone up there with a DSLR to take pictures beforehand to recce the place and he had been stopped by police he's hardly going to say, Hello Officer i'm an extremist wanting to blow your airport up and would like a couple of pictures of said target.

He's gonna say, Hello Officer my name is xyz and i'm a Doctor, here is my ID i'm a British Citizen and just wanted some pics of the Airport as i haven't been here before, Officer says carry on sir.

Its completely pointless to stop people.
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My thoughts exactly. Any terrorist stupid enough to take pictures of the building they're going blow up with a DSLR is probably too stupid to pose any threat :p
 
Just been reading an article on this matter ....

The author suggested that everytime said copper stops a photographer and asks for their details, these details are entered into a monthly draw to win new kit!!! Some form of police-photographer amnesty ?

Nice idea, would help everyone, but I can't see it happening!!!!

Anth
 
kissfoto said:
I think maybe they should spend a little more time catching criminals than annoying and searching ordinary people who are not covertly trying to hide what they are doing, is there no longer any 'common sense'...:bang:
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If you said that to a policeman he'd probably get really arsey with you...again completely pointless behaviour from only the most unprofessional of people. gits. I'm told it's worse if you spout the great 'my taxes are paying your wages' gaff. you'd be asking for it then.
too many people above their station now-a-days. If you are confronted just remember they have no rights to search you or your bags, in fact they can't even touch you, legally they have to arrest you then they can do all that - and if they do, well, it would prove the point about them going way over the top.
 
LadyLens said:
Its absolutely insane, a total erosion of civil liberties.
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Summed the whole post up in 9 words.

I have had run-ins. Plenty. Me being me I dont let things fly over the head. I will happily argue with the plod until the sun goes down.

This country is becoming more an more communist by the year. Whatever happened to the saying 'free country'.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
 
that's an interesting link about the press card - but its not often an official press photographer wants to take a shot of the houses of parliment from across the thames for example.

As an amateur tog I feel uneasy about explaining what I'm doing - I was stopped once outside a big gas terminal outside Hull. Security van pulled up in about 3 mins of us arriving. At the time my friend was on a design uni course and managed to blurt out some sort of reasonable sounding explanation - "It's for uni" and i followed suit. Now technically i lied to this bloke because i am at uni but it wasn't for any uni project. It was just personal/hobby use - but that sounds really lame and i presume most people just wouldn't understand the reasoning behind it.

On a side note are there any RPS members here who know if you get some sort of ID card to prove you're an amateur 'tog?
 
I believe this might be useful...
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/new...ation/operational-policing/PACE_Chapter_A.pdf
if its terrorism they're concerned about have a look at this:
2.25 The selection of persons stopped under section 44 of Terrorism Act 2000 should reflect an objective assessment of the threat posed by the various terrorist groups active in Great Britain. The powers must not be used to stop and search for reasons unconnected with terrorism. Officers must take particular care not to discriminate against members of minority ethnic groups in the exercise of these powers. There may be circumstances, however, where it is appropriate for officers to take account of a person’s ethnic origin in selecting persons to be stopped in response to a specific 8A Codes of practice – Code A Exercise by police officers of statutory powers of stop and search terrorist threat (for example, some international terrorist groups are associated with particular ethnic identities).
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and as noted how blatent would a would-be terrorist be taking shots of potential targets?!

@ Michael - I too have used the 'at Uni doing a project' card...its not exactly true but the easiest way to be left alone. helps when wearing a jumper that has 'university of london' over it...!
 
OK, a friend has spoken to a CID officer this evening, and whilst obviously the officer could not pass on any documents, the gist of the conversation was this.

If a police officer stops you, be polite, yes, show them your pictures, explain who you are and what you are doing, however... the police office CANNOT ask you to delete/format any pictures. If they consider you are doing enough wrong to warrant deletion, then tell them they must arrest you and keep the pictures as evidence whilst explaining your rights and what they are arresting you for. Those pictures are YOUR property, they cannot 'take them off you' without an arrest and/or warrant.
 
Even with an arrest, they still can't delete them. I think they need a court order. Don't forget though, if they say 'delete them' and you comply, they may well argue later that they just asked you and you were prepared to do it. Same applies to security guards - they have no power to make you delete photos, and no authority to confiscate equipment. They have no more power of detention or arrest than you or me.

But of course the fact is, anyone who needed pictures of these buildings for a subversive activity would just shove a little compact in their pocket. They wouldn't labour away with a big camera trying to get the best angle. Sometimes I wonder where all this hysteria will end...
 
I always take my D80 + grip into London with me when I'm working there & have noticed that the more "open" you are with the camera, the less bothered the "state" seems to be about what you're doing with it. What I also notice is that when I've been in "candid" mode (i.e. photographing interesting people etc), my body language starts shouting "FURTIVE" & is instantly detected by anyone in a uniform (this is what they are highly trained to do, as I'm sure the current & ex police community here will agree & I'm very pleased about).
So now I just wave it about with gay abandon & get completely ignored.
Agree with all the comments in general, but wonder if anyone else has noticed this?
 
I haven't photographed much in public in London, but I hear what you're saying. It's always interesting to see how the 'public' react to big cameras. It's funny how suspicious people can be, even though they're filmed all day every day by CCTV. I think it's easier when you're not on your own, like Shoot London. In groups of four, carrying cameras and messing about climbing on things, and nobody even thought about trying to stop us!
 
I'd imagine the problem in getting arrested when refusing to show/delete pics, is that the whole of your gear might be lifted from you as evidence. This was what was "suggested" to Jeannie and Bob [linked in prior post].
 
Hmm, I suppose it's possible. I got spotted 'acting suspiciously' near a power station and it resulted in a visit from the Police. Showing them the photos actually helped prove I wasn't up to anything bad. I happily owned up to 'trespass' and they were happy to leave the matter, reassured that I wasn't a terrorist.

Granted, it's hard for the Police, as if they didn't deal with something they deem to be suspicious and an incident occured they could be held responsible, but at the same time we often see a total lack of discretion. Like old people having to take off hats in shopping centres, etc.

It's a minefield, that's for sure...
 
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