Phil Spector Died

Ricardodaforce said:
A musical genius and a murderer.
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I've been hoping they would make a movie about his time in the music industry.
They did for Joe Meek who was an incredible UK producer who sadly took his own life.
 
hashcake said:
I've been hoping they would make a movie about his time in the music industry.
They did for Joe Meek who was an incredible UK producer who sadly took his own life.
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I have the DVD somewhere. I'll have to dig it out. I always liked Telstar as a kid but it wasn't until I watched the DVD that I learned of the legal wrangles around it, also stamping on the stairs, brilliant :D

I liked the wall of sound stuff.
 
A murderer yes but prior to this he was responsible for some great music
 
Don't mean to derail the thread but the murder got me thinking about what is pulled from the media and what isn't. As a kid I liked the music of Garry Glitter and to this day I still think "Rock and roll Christmas" is a great Christmas song, one of the best together with "I wish it could be Christmas everyday" but it's as if he's been erased from history and the music is never played.

Personally I'd like to separate the art from the person if at all possible and keep the music or films or whatever the output is unless it's specifically linked to crimes. I wonder if the offenders would still get royalties though or if there's any way to stop that.
 
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woof woof said:
Personally I'd like to separate the art from the person if at all possible
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The singer is not the song? I can see the argument for that but in the real world, the celebritisation of entertainment creates a double edged sword. As a result I can see an equally compelling argument for banning the material made by bad people or at least requiring it to carry a health warning.
 
woof woof said:
I have the DVD somewhere. I'll have to dig it out. I always liked Telstar as a kid but it wasn't until I watched the DVD that I learned of the legal wrangles around it, also stamping on the stairs, brilliant :D

I liked the wall of sound stuff.
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I remember seeing that - great story and a flawed genius. Such a shame. I didn't like Spector but he was also a flawed genius.
 
woof woof said:
Don't mean to derail the thread but the murder got me thinking about what is pulled from the media and what isn't. As a kid I liked the music of Garry Glitter and to this day I still think "Rock and roll Christmas" is a great Christmas song, one of the best together with "I wish it could be Christmas everyday" but it's as if he's been erased from history and the music is never played.

Personally I'd like to separate the art from the person if at all possible and keep the music or films or whatever the output is unless it's specifically linked to crimes. I wonder if the offenders would still get royalties though or if there's any way to stop that.
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Agree, love Glitter and RnR Xmas is a great song, in my Xmas top 10 playlist much to the annoyance of my wife.
 
Goes to show how we all differ, for me, Glitter was nothing more than a glorified Shakey Stevens, never saw any talent there long before the reveal of him being a vile disgusting specimen, and even if his songs were brilliant [they're far from] I'd feel sick listening to them. Seperate the artist?? ask his victims if they don't mind hearing his songs
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The singer is not the song? I can see the argument for that but in the real world, the celebritisation of entertainment creates a double edged sword. As a result I can see an equally compelling argument for banning the material made by bad people or at least requiring it to carry a health warning.
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Cagey75 said:
Goes to show how we all differ, for me, Glitter was nothing more than a glorified Shakey Stevens, never saw any talent there long before the reveal of him being a vile disgusting specimen, and even if his songs were brilliant [they're far from] I'd feel sick listening to them. Seperate the artist?? ask his victims if they don't mind hearing his songs
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Well yes, all that but by what standard is the ban implemented and is it applied equally? If we think about it we could all name artists who if we're going to ban should possibly be banned but their music and films are out there still. Plus at what point in time if ever can the output resurface?

I just thought I'd raise the point and I can see your point but on the other side cancel culture is only going to get worse and seems to be selective. Some are cancelled, some are out there on the airwaves and screens daily. Murderers, child abusers, serial sexual abusers, one off rapists, woman haters, anti Semites, drug addicts who cause distress and traffic accidents, the list of artists who are distasteful one way or another through to criminal is just about endless. Then there's time. Maybe we could play Rock and Roll Christmas in 100 years time or will it still be cancelled.
 
woof woof said:
Maybe we could play Rock and Roll Christmas in 100 years time or will it still be cancelled.
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Perhaps the only answer is to let the victims and their families decide.
 
I met Garry Glitter years ago, he lived near me and used to frequent a local pub, being 19 I was above his age range
but I do remember he used to invite younger girls to visit him, back in those days no one thought anything of it
Never been a fan and can't see the attraction he held apart from being famous

My main agreement with banning his music is from something that I might be totally wrong in, but does he still get
royalties every time that play one of his songs, if so then I glad they have stopped playing them
In 100 years time he will no longer be around to collect, hopefully
 
Ricardodaforce said:
A musical genius and a murderer.
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I think many of our best and most creative people are flawed geniuses, some have a giant self destruct button waiting to go off, others may struggle because of the fame which then makes them feel they can do anything they want.
 
woof woof said:
Well yes, all that but by what standard is the ban implemented and is it applied equally? If we think about it we could all name artists who if we're going to ban should possibly be banned but their music and films are out there still. Plus at what point in time if ever can the output resurface?

I just thought I'd raise the point and I can see your point but on the other side cancel culture is only going to get worse and seems to be selective. Some are cancelled, some are out there on the airwaves and screens daily. Murderers, child abusers, serial sexual abusers, one off rapists, woman haters, anti Semites, drug addicts who cause distress and traffic accidents, the list of artists who are distasteful one way or another through to criminal is just about endless. Then there's time. Maybe we could play Rock and Roll Christmas in 100 years time or will it still be cancelled.
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I'm sure there's many famous people who've been up to all sorts that we'll never know about. But, in knowing, if they are found guilty then I feel their work should be insta deleted from history no matter how significant it was. I'm sure Glitter still has some weird hardcore fanbase who insist that he's innocent or all is forgiven. But just even seeing his picture gives me the creeps, let alone hear his voice. I just couldn't have rock and roll Christmas playing here knowing he raped girls as young as 13, just wouldn't feel in any way right, just how I personally feel on it though.
 
I have to say that, for me, it's a refreshing change not to see acronym R.I.P before or after the name although I appreciate why in this case.

I've been meaning to address it for a while and I'd have probably done so whoever posted R.I.P next but this seems to be a good opportunity.

Rest in Peace ? I do wonder if many people think that this actually refers to the body of the deceased ? We don't have body snatchers selling the corpse, as they did in 18th and especially the 19th centuries to medical schools nor do we have grave robbers..The deceased are no longer sentient beings. I just think that a long time ago someone on here posted R.I.P and ever since everyone following feels obliged to do so in case others think he/she is being disrespectful. Of course as most know, it's not about resting in peace in the grave, something that doesn't apply to cremation of course. Originally the phrase related to the concept of the 'soul' and the 'afterlife' both of which many religions, including Christianity,Judaism and Islam believe in. Catholics and Protestants, whilst believing in the concept of the soul differ on its meaning,infact with the Protestants the meaning is divided into two camps all of which should be telling us something. R.I.P was, originally, in Latin, requiescat in pace and requiescat means to offer prayer, it does not mean 'rest' .So, a prayer was offered for the 'repose' (meaning peace or tranquility)of the dead to whoever their god was (and is today) that the soul of the deceased will find peace . It wasn't until the 1700's that the Catholic church started writing R.I.P on gravestones. Language changes with culture and use and this original meaning..ie a prayer offered has been lost.

If someone posting R.I.P believes in the soul and the afterlife then fair enough but I strongly suspect that is not the case for the majority and all the OP really wants to do is to make comment on attributes of the deceased and/or how much they enjoyed what they did be it in the football world ...Jack Charlton back in July, comes to mind and more recently Colin Bell at the beginning of this month or film/theatre..Barbara Windsor last month.. or the music world..eg Gerry Marsden also at the beginning of this month but writing R.I.P puts it in a different arena. Maybe R.I.P is seen as a flag to announce that the person had died but invariably, we all know anyway because it will have taken top slot on the news bulletins. Why not just write so and so dies..much as RF as done in this thread or preferably, just the name.

By the way. Going back to last July only once has R.I.P been written as it should be..not RIP.
 
woof woof said:
I have the DVD somewhere. I'll have to dig it out. I always liked Telstar as a kid but it wasn't until I watched the DVD that I learned of the legal wrangles around it, also stamping on the stairs, brilliant :D

I liked the wall of sound stuff.
Click to expand...

I recently watched the Joe Meek story again as my girlfriend had never seen it.
Even with modern technology I don't think there has been a producer like Joe Meek or Phil Spector
 
woof woof said:
Don't mean to derail the thread but the murder got me thinking about what is pulled from the media and what isn't. As a kid I liked the music of Garry Glitter and to this day I still think "Rock and roll Christmas" is a great Christmas song, one of the best together with "I wish it could be Christmas everyday" but it's as if he's been erased from history and the music is never played.

Personally I'd like to separate the art from the person if at all possible and keep the music or films or whatever the output is unless it's specifically linked to crimes. I wonder if the offenders would still get royalties though or if there's any way to stop that.
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I also liked Gary Glitter as a kid but never have as an adult.
I agree about keeping the person and art seperate, some of my favourites have had turmoil in there life or somewhat be arrogant.
One or two have even lost the plot on stage but they are still music geniuses to me.
 
hashcake said:
Even with modern technology I don't think there has been a producer like Joe Meek or Phil Spector
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That might be true. if only because few people are child rapists and murderers.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That might be true. if only because few people are child rapists and murderers.
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I don't get your point, we all know Phil Spector was a murderer but Joe Meek was neither.
Regardless you can not take away what the did for the music industry.
Do you remember a story from a few years ago when Pete Townsend was accused of being a pedophile and he claimed it was in the name of reseatch?
It still doesn't stop me from listening to the who evenn though I have doubts about him.
 
hashcake said:
I don't get your point, we all know Phil Spector was a murderer but Joe Meek was neither.
Regardless you can not take away what the did for the music industry.
Do you remember a story from a few years ago when Pete Townsend was accused of being a pedophile and he claimed it was in the name of reseatch?
It still doesn't stop me from listening to the who evenn though I have doubts about him.
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He was, he shot his landlady!
 
Cagey75 said:
I'm sure there's many famous people who've been up to all sorts that we'll never know about. But, in knowing, if they are found guilty then I feel their work should be insta deleted from history no matter how significant it was. I'm sure Glitter still has some weird hardcore fanbase who insist that he's innocent or all is forgiven. But just even seeing his picture gives me the creeps, let alone hear his voice. I just couldn't have rock and roll Christmas playing here knowing he raped girls as young as 13, just wouldn't feel in any way right, just how I personally feel on it though.
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"Rock and Roll xmas" is the only one of his I miss. I'd be happy enough if it could be recorded and released by someone else but as I said above that could mean giving him money. I'd be gutted if Roy Wood was erased for some reason, I still love "I wish it could be Xmas everyday."

My general point was that some seem to be erased whilst others do not. Look anywhere in the arts and you'll find dark corners and I do often wonder how victims feel when yet another drama appears on TV etc.

I would be happy with separating the person from the artistic output but if this involves them earning more and possibly enabling them to offend again then that's a problem.

AndrewFlannigan said:
Perhaps the only answer is to let the victims and their families decide.
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Until what point in time though? 100 years after the offences?

I was just asking the question. I do see GG crimes as appalling but sexual offenses are maybe difficult with some being something other than simply criminal. Maybe. Whatever the reason the trauma his victims suffered is real. Generally, I don't think I agree with erasing art from the world and I don't think there's consistency as if you put your mind to it maybe you could think of others in the arts who are still alive who've committing serious crimes but haven't been erased.
 
Surely if Glitter has to be deleted then Wacko and the rest should also. Are we basing the banning orders on convictions because many artists get away with all sorts because of their wealth.
 
scottduffy said:
Surely if Glitter has to be deleted then Wacko and the rest should also. Are we basing the banning orders on convictions because many artists get away with all sorts because of their wealth.
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That's sort of my point. I do have a problem with problem people continuing to be in the public eye or ear if their victims are offended but I just instinctively have a problem with erasing things from history. It's a difficult decision... and as you point out, there seem to be inconsistencies.
 
scottduffy said:
Surely if Glitter has to be deleted then Wacko and the rest should also. Are we basing the banning orders on convictions because many artists get away with all sorts because of their wealth.
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I don't think I've heard a Whacko song since he died come to think of it! I know people who would have been fans of his and they just never so much as mention him anymore
 
scottduffy said:
Surely if Glitter has to be deleted then Wacko and the rest should also. Are we basing the banning orders on convictions because many artists get away with all sorts because of their wealth.
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Paul Gadd is a convicted pedophile, what were "Wacko and the rest" convicted of?
 
hashcake said:
I don't get your point, we all know Phil Spector was a murderer but Joe Meek was neither.
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From Wikipedia: " On 3 February 1967 Meek killed his landlady Violet Shenton and then himself "
 
cambsno said:
He was, he shot his landlady!
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Oh yes, I completely forgot about that.
I certainly can't condone him for it but I from what I remember from the film I think his mental health played a part in it.
 
Joe Meek was born in Newent near Gloucester. My wife wanted to go to a wool shop there so I went along for the ride . Whilst she was in the shop I took a walk round and saw this plaque. I didn't know he was born in Newent. It's a small market town 10 miles from Gloucester.

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

1960s pop pioneer Joe Meek paved way for music production techniques used today

His composition Telstar was the first British record to be number one in UK and US
www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk
 
Play
woof woof said:
I have the DVD somewhere. I'll have to dig it out. I always liked Telstar as a kid but it wasn't until I watched the DVD that I learned of the legal wrangles around it, also stamping on the stairs, brilliant :D

I liked the wall of sound stuff.
Click to expand...
Play the B side of Telstar "Jungle fever" and you will see how far ahead of his time regarding electronic music he was.
 
Garry Glitter - great pop star
Jimmy Savile - great DJ
Daily Mail readers - sad.
:LOL:
 
Marc said:
Paul Gadd is a convicted pedophile, what were "Wacko and the rest" convicted of?
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That was my point. There are many celebrities who have used their wealth to escape prosecution. Didn't Jackson pay off the families of numerous kids so they wouldn't press charges against him? Isn't that as good as an admission of guilt? What about films that Harvey W produced? It shouldn't be simply picking on one scumbag when there are so many about.
 
scottduffy said:
That was my point. There are many celebrities who have used their wealth to escape prosecution. Didn't Jackson pay off the families of numerous kids so they wouldn't press charges against him? Isn't that as good as an admission of guilt?
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But "as good as" isn't the same as convicted. I'm pretty sure that "everyone knows he dunnit" isn't admissible in court.

scottduffy said:
What about films that Harvey W produced? It shouldn't be simply picking on one scumbag when there are so many about.
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The difference there is that most people don't associate those films with him but rather with the actors and/or the director, you cannot have that separation between Gary Glitter and his songs.
 
Marc said:
But "as good as" isn't the same as convicted. I'm pretty sure that "everyone knows he dunnit" isn't admissible in court.



The difference there is that most people don't associate those films with him but rather with the actors and/or the director, you cannot have that separation between Gary Glitter and his songs.
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So Jackson is golden because he paid off his victims and Harvey W's films are okay because he just produced them. Very good.
 
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