Permission to come aboard Captain?

Bobsyeruncle said:
So it's ok if you're only running a country, but not if you're running a warship? How come?
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Well you can crash a war-ship but not a country
Oh Hang on :thinking:
 
I've got more respect for officers and crew in the RN to have discipline and do their jobs with skill and competence. PM, politicians, presidents and the rest are all a bunch of wasters with little common sense and intelligence and even less integrity. Nothing they do surprises me.
 
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chadders said:
I've got more respect for officers and crew in the RN to have discipline and do their jobs with skill and competence. PM, politicians, presidents and the rest are all a bunch of wasters with little common sense and intelligence and even less integrity. Nothing they do surprises me.
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Blimey, are you really that naïve?
 
Show me one you'd trust and I'll raise you Fred the Shred. Don't tell me he was a banker, a bank is a business as any other company.
 
chadders said:
What? To believe that politicians, captains of industry et al are basically the dregs of society.
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No

chadders said:
I've got more respect for officers and crew in the RN to have discipline and do their jobs with skill and competence. .
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Do you really think that a few are banging each other senseless whilst on tour?
And do you really believe they weren't also doing that long before women were permitted to serve on board?
 
ST4 said:
Its a lack of judgement, but folk are human. Its a bad error but a warning and reallocation would suffice. To blight her life for ever and not give her the chance to comand a ship again, would in my view, be a step too severe.
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I think she should be given a desk job in Hull
I've heard that John Prescot may be looking for a new secretary
 
viv1969 said:
No



Do you really think that a few are banging each other senseless whilst on tour?
And do you really believe they weren't also doing that long before women were permitted to serve on board?
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Obviously I have a higher opinion of the RN than you do. If a few crew members below deck wish to get their rocks off below decks that's nobody's business. I don'y doubt that before they had women on board the powder monkeys were doing more than swabbing the cannons out. However an officer is charged with maintaining good order and discipline and setting an example. The services are built on those unfashionable ideas of respect and discipline. Any senior officer banging a junior one is failing in his/her duty and if it becomes common currency below decks it's not good. Hence the cervices code of conduct. She broke it, she knew she was breaking it, she's lost her command. End of.

And speaking of naivety, it's more than a little naive to persistently compare life in a RN warship with the anything goes life in a civilian office.
 
chadders said:
Obviously I have a higher opinion of the RN than you do. If a few crew members below deck wish to get their rocks off below decks that's nobody's business. I don'y doubt that before they had women on board the powder monkeys were doing more than swabbing the cannons out. However an officer is charged with maintaining good order and discipline and setting an example. The services are built on those unfashionable ideas of respect and discipline. Any senior officer banging a junior one is failing in his/her duty and if it becomes common currency below decks it's not good. Hence the cervices code of conduct. She broke it, she knew she was breaking it, she's lost her command. End of.

And speaking of naivety, it's more than a little naive to persistently compare life in a RN warship with the anything goes life in a civilian office.
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I'm not comparing it to civvy street. But I maintain that if you think she's the first commanding officer to have an affair with a subordinate (either of them married or not) you're insane.
 
So I've joined the post at the last minute and from what I can decipher, a chief commanding officer (female) had a relationship with another officer on the same vessel, personally I think that the forces need to pull their fingers out and let people have a life. Being in love does not stop one from serving his queen. In fact it would drive a person even further, typical archaic sexist management yet again, I'm glad I left the RAF at the right time!

People need to love, regardless of rank and situation.
 
some time in the past when i had a reasonable sized yacht and also managed a office full of young ladies i always had plenty of offers of crewing at the weekends ,its actually surprising how many believed my tale that the last rivet in the boat was made of pure gold and wanted to search the cabin for the golden rivet ,surprising how many found it to :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:
 
the black fox said:
some time in the past when i had a reasonable sized yacht and also managed a office full of young ladies i always had plenty of offers of crewing at the weekends ,its actually surprising how many believed my tale that the last rivet in the boat was made of pure gold and wanted to search the cabin for the golden rivet ,surprising how many found it to :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:
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Must have been a shame to wake up from that particular dream :lol: :lol:
 
chadders said:
Not the issue. She was in command of a warship; bad judgement not allowed. There is the safety of the ship and crew to be considered, and she's shown lack of judgement. She's broke the code of conduct and is a bad example to her subordinates.

In fact she's done the cause of women in the services, particularly the navy, no favours whatsoever. The people who were/are against women at sea now have their prejudices justified. Also I cannot see how navy wives will be too happy. There will be many wondering what their husbands are up to whilst at sea.
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There will be many more sailors laying in their bunks at night wondering what their mrs or GF is up to on Friday / Saturday night while they are on deployment.
 
Exactly, I can't be the only one to suggest that what drives a husband / partner on deployment is stronger than anything else (relationships that is). All I can say is anyone that is on deployment needs a pat on the back instead of some w*****g idiot behind a desk back in the UK setting rules that make no sense in the modern world. What ever happened to equality and giving people a chance to actually live?
One does not simply walk into Mordor......
 
the black fox said:
some time in the past when i had a reasonable sized yacht and also managed a office full of young ladies i always had plenty of offers of crewing at the weekends ,its actually surprising how many believed my tale that the last rivet in the boat was made of pure gold and wanted to search the cabin for the golden rivet ,surprising how many found it to :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:
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Not your tale shipmate, it's been in use in the RN and MN for years....

Just saying :)
 
viv1969 said:
Must have been a shame to wake up from that particular dream :LOL: :LOL:
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fortunately ruth totally true ,i was free of a relationship at the time had a extremely good job ,the fast car and the yacht to go with it, its just human nature .
 
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the black fox said:
fortunately ruth totally true ,i was free of a relationship at the time had a extremely good job ,the fast car and the yacht to go with it, its just human nature .
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Okie dokie ;)
 
You're all a bunch of old romantics.

This isn't about a deprivation of liberty or restriction upon one's ability to catch a good time. The misjudgment on Cdr West's part is more fundamental to the term which was used to justify her being relieved of her duties - 'operational effectiveness'.

Her actions indicate a lack of judgment as well as an inability to exercise discipline. Her actions compromise her ability to lead men who will, rightly or wrongly, think of her as 'the commander who...'. Her objectivity is undermined. Would she send her 'lover' into a deadly damage control exercise above someone else? Would she be prepared to see him put at risk? The morale amongst peers is sure to be damaged as they question whether the 'lover' was getting special dispensation. That would brees mistrust. I expect he has been reassigned to a different ship as his position is aurely untenable amongst present shipmates.

At its most basic she failed to adhere to a set of rules required to ensure that those in charge of our most lethal assets and most capable means of defence can exercise discipline, discretion and their duty. She failed. That requires a move on-shore and the RN have acted very properly in that regard.
 
chadders said:
As I said, she wasn't at work, she was in command of one of the Royal Navy's warships. If you can't see the difference between that and bonking at work, then gawd help us. It's not a case of not being able. A lot of people seem to think that just about any behaviour, any time, any place is acceptable. For all I care she can screw her brains out with who she likes when ashore, and, presumably, now she'll have her chance.
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Really - what about if this happened on leave? It sound like you're assuming she bonked on the bridge or something...
 
Bernie174 said:
Yes, I'm sure that Weapons Systems Operators Aircrew, who are Sergents, Flight Sergents and Master Aircrew are so reassurred about that.
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Bernie - it was a tongue in cheek comment and I think I know a little more than you about RAF life ;)
 
chadders said:
I've got more respect for officers and crew in the RN to have discipline and do their jobs with skill and competence. PM, politicians, presidents and the rest are all a bunch of wasters with little common sense and intelligence and even less integrity. Nothing they do surprises me.
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chadders said:
Obviously I have a higher opinion of the RN than you do. If a few crew members below deck wish to get their rocks off below decks that's nobody's business. I don'y doubt that before they had women on board the powder monkeys were doing more than swabbing the cannons out. However an officer is charged with maintaining good order and discipline and setting an example. The services are built on those unfashionable ideas of respect and discipline. Any senior officer banging a junior one is failing in his/her duty and if it becomes common currency below decks it's not good. Hence the cervices code of conduct. She broke it, she knew she was breaking it, she's lost her command. End of.

And speaking of naivety, it's more than a little naive to persistently compare life in a RN warship with the anything goes life in a civilian office.
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Do I take it you were in the navy?
 
Astraeus said:
You're all a bunch of old romantics.

This isn't about a deprivation of liberty or restriction upon one's ability to catch a good time. The misjudgment on Cdr West's part is more fundamental to the term which was used to justify her being relieved of her duties - 'operational effectiveness'.

Her actions indicate a lack of judgment as well as an inability to exercise discipline. Her actions compromise her ability to lead men who will, rightly or wrongly, think of her as 'the commander who...'. Her objectivity is undermined. Would she send her 'lover' into a deadly damage control exercise above someone else? Would she be prepared to see him put at risk? The morale amongst peers is sure to be damaged as they question whether the 'lover' was getting special dispensation. That would brees mistrust. I expect he has been reassigned to a different ship as his position is aurely untenable amongst present shipmates.

At its most basic she failed to adhere to a set of rules required to ensure that those in charge of our most lethal assets and most capable means of defence can exercise discipline, discretion and their duty. She failed. That requires a move on-shore and the RN have acted very properly in that regard.
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Is the correct answer.
On an airforce base it's usually the lower rank gets posted away, especially if female. Heaven help you if a lower rank is having an affair with an officers wife, not sure now but it used to be immediate posting if lucky or charged with bringing the RAF into disrepute. I know of two airmen thrown out because of it.

As for There will be many more sailors laying in their bunks at night wondering what their mrs or GF is up to on Friday / Saturday night while they are on deployment.
Same for Army on detatchment. Salisbury or Amesbury on a friday/saturday night...
 
Astraeus said:
You're all a bunch of old romantics.

This isn't about a deprivation of liberty or restriction upon one's ability to catch a good time. The misjudgment on Cdr West's part is more fundamental to the term which was used to justify her being relieved of her duties - 'operational effectiveness'.

Her actions indicate a lack of judgment as well as an inability to exercise discipline. Her actions compromise her ability to lead men who will, rightly or wrongly, think of her as 'the commander who...'. Her objectivity is undermined. Would she send her 'lover' into a deadly damage control exercise above someone else? Would she be prepared to see him put at risk? The morale amongst peers is sure to be damaged as they question whether the 'lover' was getting special dispensation. That would brees mistrust. I expect he has been reassigned to a different ship as his position is aurely untenable amongst present shipmates.

At its most basic she failed to adhere to a set of rules required to ensure that those in charge of our most lethal assets and most capable means of defence can exercise discipline, discretion and their duty. She failed. That requires a move on-shore and the RN have acted very properly in that regard.
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Reality is he the (Ops Officer) will get slapped on the back and be revered in the the Wardroom. The Senior Service lives on black humour.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Reality is he the (Ops Officer) will get slapped on the back and be revered in the the Wardroom. The Senior Service lives on black humour.
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It'll be a joke to a point but the reality is not that he'll be exonerated. Whilst younger ranks may find it entertaining, misconduct of that nature won't humour many fellow officers.
 
When the Astute ran aground the Captain went into the wardroom (invited) to take a bit of pressure off the day and was offered a stiff drink. He was asked if he wanted it "on the rocks" he did about turn and left !
 
viv1969 said:
I'm not comparing it to civvy street. But I maintain that if you think she's the first commanding officer to have an affair with a subordinate (either of them married or not) you're insane.
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Then you and I are in good company.:wacky:
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
:clap: If that's what you believe then you're a fool!
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Let me see…Tony Blair, George Bush, all the troughing MPs fiddling their expenses, Rupert Murdoch, the list unfortunately is endless. As for your personal abuse you're just wasting your breath and time.
 
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