pentax 645D

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Mummy, where do babies come from?
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Anthony
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Well I was in jessops the other day and I seen one of these and thought "oh this looks nice" and then I seen the price tag :-O

£9999.95 OMG!

Ok I know this is a MASSIVE 40mega pixel but what would make you want to spend 10x the amount more on a camera then you would normally spend?

I guess my question is what makes this camera worth 10g?

Tony.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
This is a low end medium format body, so £10K is pretty cheap for that market. It's designed for the the folk who shoot adverts and other commercial stuff, rather than for taking picture of the kids on holiday:D
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Pretty cheap? Lol how much is a decent one then?
 
The best specified back that fits my Hasselblad V system Cameras the P65+ is just under £30,000, an ex demo version is available at £15,995 plus VAT = £19,194 plus shipping.
 
duttytd said:
That's a stupid amount of money.
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So is £300,000 for a car, but if you want performance you have to pay for it.
 
duttytd said:
That's a stupid amount of money.
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Like anything else it's all relative.

If Wayne Rooney was into photography, do you think he would care that it cost £30,000, that would be about 1/6th of his weekly wage.

A 6th of my weekly wage is about £85 would I worry about spending that on my hobby, hardly I bought a filter holder yesterday that cost almost that.

If you are a professional and that type of image quality was important to you and you could make money with it's use then it would not be a problem.

If you are a hobbyist then you work within your expendable budget, and some peoples are larger than others.

I managed to purchase a digital back for my Hasselblad cameras, is it the P65+ (I wish), No, it is an H10 12 MP (35mm sized sensor) it still cost circa £20,000 when it was released in 2002 but I picked it up for under £1000 with it being 9 years old. Hopefully I will aspire to a P65+ (full frame 6x4.5 cm sensor 60MP) sooner than 2020, but if not then C'est la vie!
 
What job do you have if you make £510 a week lol.

I see it from your Wayne rooney point of view but who in the real world makes that kind of money? I just couldn't justify spending that amount of money on a camera.
 
duttytd said:
What job do you have if you make £510 a week lol.
I see it from your Wayne rooney point of view but who in the real world makes that kind of money? I just couldn't justify spending that amount of money on a camera.
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I am a Low Level Manager for the Local Water Company, £27,000 a year is not exactly big money and certainly not for the Stress involved. My Wife even earns considerably more than that.
 
EdBray said:
I am a Low Level Manager for the Local Water Company, £27,000 a year is not exactly big money and certainly not for the Stress involved. My Wife even earns considerably more than that.
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I think I need to get my self one of them jobs tbh lol. I used to be on 14000 a year and was working my ass off for it.
 
The sensor on that Pentax is just so much bigger than the one on the 5DMK2, that it records more detail initially and will enable images to be enlarged to a far greater size than the Canon - still retaining image quality.

As Ed says it is actually a bit of bargain compared to most top end digital backs available. Its a tool for a working pro who needs the benefits it brings or a very well- heeled hobbyist. ;)
 
duttytd said:
I just don't get what cameras like them will do that say a Canon 5D mk2 don't.
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dynamic range and resolution

if you want the ultimate quality the. they are the way to go.
 
You don't go out and buy medium-format gear - you rent it. A couple of grand on equipment rental is fairly trivial in the overall budget when shooting promotional material. VAT is also irrelevant as everyone at that end of the market is registered.

The Pentax 645 is actually an effort at bringing that kind of level digital equipment down to the point that non-professional people can (and do) go out and buy it. Its still very expensive...but there's no shortage of people on "average" incomes who go out and spend 3-4 times that on 4x4's to go over the speed-bumps at the supermarket...

p.s.
£500 a week may seem a lot to some people, but there's plenty on here who charge that per day, and undoutably some who charge that per hour...! Its all relative at the end of the day, as disposable income doesn't go up in proportion to earnings, sadly!
 
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duttytd said:
That's a stupid amount of money.
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Disagree, entirely. This sort of camera and the price tag aren't aimed at hobbyists, they are aimed at people who are likely to quickly recover the cost of the equipment through top level commercial shoots, where the outstanding performance of the big sensors in MF digital cameras is absolutely necessary.

There is clearly a market for them - Pentax have been in the camera business for a long time and they would not have released something without due consideration, and likewise all the digital backs for 'blads and the like clearly show that there are buyers out there for them.
 
I think it's a massive punt by Pentax. That area of the market has always been small, and with full frame digital now capable of rivalling medium format film, and getting better all the time, it is even smaller than ever, and shrinking. Bronica have gone, Mamiya barely a shadow, Hasselblad in trouble...

Annie Leibovitz even used a Canon 1Ds to shoot the Queen, and she surely has the pick of whatever she fancies.

How many people have a need for that kind of camera, have the money, and have the confidence that Pentax will provide a decent system and support in the years ahead. It's already been a long and difficult birth, and Pentax are in dire straights... :( Canikon sell tens of thousands of cameras in the UK, Pentax must be looking at dozens. It cannot possibly ad up.
 
Hoya own Pentax and bought them for about $1 billion, so I'd assume they have some sort of plan for turning them around? They do have some nice DSLRs but they don't seem to want to tell anyone about them. The 645D does look like a nice camera and maybe a segment of the market worth targeting if they can't take on the thousands of consumer lenses and cameras that CaNikon churns out.
 
Laudrup said:
Hoya own Pentax and bought them for about $1 billion, so I'd assume they have some sort of plan for turning them around? They do have some nice DSLRs but they don't seem to want to tell anyone about them. The 645D does look like a nice camera and maybe a segment of the market worth targeting if they can't take on the thousands of consumer lenses and cameras that CaNikon churns out.
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Hoya only wanted the Pentax medical equipment division. Pentax Cameras is currently for sale, but nobody wants to buy them and now that Samsung has also taken what they want from their little joint-products venture, Pentax are unloved and seriously out in the cold. Which is no place to be at the best of times.
 
HoppyUK said:
I think it's a massive punt by Pentax. That area of the market has always been small, and with full frame digital now capable of rivalling medium format film, and getting better all the time, it is even smaller than ever, and shrinking. Bronica have gone, Mamiya barely a shadow, Hasselblad in trouble...
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FF digital rivalling medium format film? Have a look at the picture on the Hasselblad Wikipedia page, the 40mp one, and view it at 100%. You can see her *pores*. FF digital isn't bad at all, and for many applications more than sufficient, but for demanding clientele there needs to be that step up - provided by MF). And you seem to assume that only FF 35mm advances, whereas the recent press releases from Hasselblad show that MF also evolves - thus pushing the boundaries again.
 
freecom2 said:
FF digital rivalling medium format film? Have a look at the picture on the Hasselblad Wikipedia page, the 40mp one, and view it at 100%. You can see her *pores*. FF digital isn't bad at all, and for many applications more than sufficient, but for demanding clientele there needs to be that step up - provided by MF). And you seem to assume that only FF 35mm advances, whereas the recent press releases from Hasselblad show that MF also evolves - thus pushing the boundaries again.
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Yes, they're amazing, but that misses the point.

The thing is, the market for cameras with IQ like that is tiny, and shrinking. Very few people actually need it, and even fewer are in a position to pay for it. Does anyone on here have a 40mp Hasselblad? Anyone actually bought a Pentax 645D? Compared to the thousands of us who all have DLRs of one kind or another. Price apart, medium format digital is also quite limited in terms of what you can do with it - hopeless for popular stuff like sport or birding, or anything that needs a long lens and a fast camera. They're slow, big, heavy cumbersome things.

In terms of camera sales, full frame digital has replaced medium format film. It used to be the standard for wedding and professional photographers, and they now use full frame digital. That is the bread and butter sector which has just vanished, and many once-popular brands have already gone to the wall.
 
HoppyUK said:
Hoya only wanted the Pentax medical equipment division. Pentax Cameras is currently for sale, but nobody wants to buy them and now that Samsung has also taken what they want from their little joint-products venture, Pentax are unloved and seriously out in the cold. Which is no place to be at the best of times.
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If there was no investment there or research and development I don't know why they would be making £10k cameras with sensors that cost a few grand. Pentax do make some very nice DSLRs that compete with Nikon and Canon, but their marketing and support does seem to be severely lacking.

I hope they do survive though, the more competition the better.
 
HoppyUK said:
How many people have a need for that kind of camera, have the money, and have the confidence that Pentax will provide a decent system and support in the years ahead. It's already been a long and difficult birth, and Pentax are in dire straights... :( Canikon sell tens of thousands of cameras in the UK, Pentax must be looking at dozens. It cannot possibly ad up.
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I think Hoppy has a point here. Pentax have never seemed to make their mind up where they want to be in the market.Back in the 60s they were producing quality cameras such as the SV and S1a, closely followed by the ground breaking Spotmatic. None of them wold be considered necessarily pro tools, although many pros would have had no qualms about using then - they were high end prosumer cameras. The ME and MX models which followed were squarely aimed at the same market sector and Pentax must have sold millions and been riding pretty high at that time.

The LX was a serious bid by Pentax to enter the pro 'system' camera market, and although it was a fine camera it made little impact on the Canon/Nikon grip on that sector.

For a few years Pentax then produced a succession of lack lustre plasticky models which in the main were pure entry level offerings. Pentax are currently offering good quality DSLR cameras and it's good to see them making a comeback in a difficult market. The 645D is an ambitious attempt to corner a share of the MF digital market, but like Hoppy I'd be wary of committing to Pentax in the long term for fear of how they see themselves in a few years time and their commitment to this camera.

Pentax have been responsible for some big innovations ....

First instant return mirror.
First TTL metering system
First AF lens system
First Aperture Priority SLR

Every one of these ideas were quickly copied by the big names - it's great shame that Pentax aren't doing a lot better than they currently are.
 
HoppyUK said:
The thing is, the market for cameras with IQ like that is tiny, and shrinking. Very few people actually need it, and even fewer are in a position to pay for it.
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I just don't see what people are arguing about here.

These cameras are aimed at people who want something that full frame just can not produce. Turn up with a Canon 5DII and when the customer sees the result you'll lose the contract and wont get another... and looked at in that stark reality the Pentax is actually a bit of a bargain for someone who makes a living from supplying a service to customers who demand more than full frame can deliver.

As for amateurs, they are free to buy one or more likely buy a used one at a much reduced price so it's a win for pro's and for amateurs.
 
woof woof said:
These cameras are aimed at people who want something that full frame just can not produce. Turn up with a Canon 5DII and when the customer sees the result you'll lose the contract and wont get another... and looked at in that stark reality the Pentax is actually a bit of a bargain for someone who makes a living from supplying a service to customers who demand more than full frame can deliver.
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Precisely. And even if the market is shrinking, the market is still there, and that's what Pentax/Mamiya/Hasselblad aim for. Their business in MF digital is not volume sales, pushing crates of D3100s and 600Ds out of the door, it's for this sort of equipment - beyond most people's budgets by far, but within those who know they can pay it off because they use it as a central tool in a service they provide.

I think the analogy that comes up with stuff like this is that a tradesman would happily drop 10k+ on a van because it is essential for them to attend to business, it's a central part of their day-to-day and it is an important tool for them. So why is an expensive camera for a person who makes their living from high-end photography any different?
 
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Sensor size
Resolution
Ease of use and sensor cleaning
Dynamic Range

The price is so high because these large sensors are difficult to produce, with a high % discarded due to failures in testing. But it really does outshine 35mm - which I have shot for over 40 years, including 7 years of Canon DSLRs - by a country mile (IMHO only, of course).
 
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