Pendilino Trains

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I have had the fortune on traveling on these a fair bit. They really are great and show us what a modern, electric train can be like. Even the new Seimens class 350 and 380 trains give us hope for our rolling stock. It seems a shame that other carriers use much older and inferior rolling stock, otherwise our railways would be really great. I had the pleasure of going over the Carlise-Settle route, but in a noisy class 158. The newer diesels are so much better. Why do rail operations persist in running nasty old rolling stock when it is clear there is much better out there?
 
... because they are waiting for the government to buy new trains. Some even still require opening the doors from the outsider reaching through the open window!!! Bristol to London for example.

I am all for re-nationalisation for these parasitic companies. I would be obviously more than happy to see private operators like virgin rolling their own trains on our tracks
 
I rarely use trains but surely it's better to make use of existing rolling stock if it's useable?
 
if theyre anything like the current cross country stock, they are woefully low capacity compared to the regular south west trains stock for example.

that and the track would need ripping up on the weymouth to waterloo line
 
daugirdas said:
Some even still require opening the doors from the outsider reaching through the open window!!! Bristol to London for example.
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While the old BR Mk1 carriages had door handle mechanisms that could stick internally meaning they could only be opened by opening the window in the door and reaching out to the external handle, I wasn't aware that anything more modern did, or that the Mk1 carriage was still in use on the main lines. As far as I know the only slam door carriages still in use are on heritage lines.

Aren't they class 43 locos with Mk III carriages on the Bristol to London route? I'm sure I've seen them on the line coming out of Parkway.
 
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onomatopoeia said:
While the old BR Mk1 carriages had door handle mechanisms that could stick internally meaning they could only be opened by opening the window in the door and reaching out to the external handle, I wasn't aware that anything more modern did, or that the Mk1 carriage was still in use on the main lines. As far as I know the only slam door carriages still in use are on heritage lines.

Aren't they class 43 locos with Mk III carriages on the Bristol to London route? I'm sure I've seen them on the line coming out of Parkway.
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I don't know model numbers but I have been on one in March. They are certainly not heritage. I can't imagine that fitting new door mechanism would cost them more than days worth of profit, but trains are owned by government. The locomotives are ok actually
 
ROSCOs own the rolling stock and lease it to the train operating folk.

Quote :
"ROSCOs also have a responsibility to help develop services by phasing out old and aged rolling stock to make way for modern, more convenient and safer trains."

I assume it was set up in this complicated way to negate the effects of a train operator going bust; the ROSCOs would just lease to the next people. (As well as to make lots of money for all involved)
 
onomatopoeia said:
While the old BR Mk1 carriages had door handle mechanisms that could stick internally meaning they could only be opened by opening the window in the door and reaching out to the external handle, I wasn't aware that anything more modern did, or that the Mk1 carriage was still in use on the main lines. As far as I know the only slam door carriages still in use are on heritage lines.

Aren't they class 43 locos with Mk III carriages on the Bristol to London route? I'm sure I've seen them on the line coming out of Parkway.
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The East Coast mainline London - Inverness 125/HST had carriage doors that you had to drop the window and reach out to open the door handle until last year anyway, and possibly still have?
 
Peter B said:
The East Coast mainline London - Inverness 125/HST had carriage doors that you had to drop the window and reach out to open the door handle until last year anyway, and possibly still have?
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if memory serves.. skys recent (early this year) documentary on the east coast line showed the slam doors.
 
john-oh said:
ROSCOs own the rolling stock and lease it to the train operating folk.

Quote :
"ROSCOs also have a responsibility to help develop services by phasing out old and aged rolling stock to make way for modern, more convenient and safer trains."

I assume it was set up in this complicated way to negate the effects of a train operator going bust; the ROSCOs would just lease to the next people. (As well as to make lots of money for all involved)
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If government wasn't involved HMRC would have stepped in branded everything money laundering. Why can this so called ROSCO not manage the rest, such as ticketing, branding and staffing? They could, but then it would be difficult to divert the money to selected political party supporters, etc. Did anyone wonder why virgin lost most contracts and were replaced with Arriva just after elections? I can really smell a rotting carcass here.

Look at China. State owned railway has leapfrogged anything in Europe in just a decade. Now we are calling Chinese to invest into and modernise our railways (HS2). With better mindset we could have home grown technology still leading in the world. Even the French are still one of the leading developers of rail technology.
 
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I was on the Siemens 380 from Glasgow to Ayr and it is a very rapid and quiet. I'm not a train buff but I always liked the British Rail Class 40 diesel. Think I had it in a train set.
 
Electric tilting trains are all fine and well but they will never out class an HST for the sound of 2 paxman valenta engines at full chat!
 
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Peter B said:
The East Coast mainline London - Inverness 125/HST had carriage doors that you had to drop the window and reach out to open the door handle until last year anyway, and possibly still have?
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Class 125 tow's this rolling stock on East coast and Great Western services.

The Voyager trains needed doubled up. Virgin do this with their super voyagers and these are great trains.

The only state operated (not for profit) carrier in the UK is East coast trains, who's rolling stock isn't with. Brandson did well to get us Pendilino's to travel on. I love Pendilino's. So smooth, so quiet, and 125mph in a lot more sections of track as they can tilt.

They are also narrower as the body tapers, to allow for the tilt. I would hope East coast routes and other routes get them in time.
 
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ST4 said:
Class 125 tow's this rolling stock on East coast and Great Western services.

The Voyager trains needed doubled up. Virgin do this with their super voyagers and these are great trains.

The only state operated (not for profit) carrier in the UK is East coast trains, who's rolling stock isn't with. Brandson did well to get us Pendilino's to travel on. I love Pendilino's. So smooth, so quiet, and 125mph in a lot more sections of track as they can tilt.
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He also brought in quiet coaches as I recall, but I was never sure how well they worked?
 
Cross country operated 4 and 5 carriage voyagers. Virgin will operated 8/10 car Voyagers and Pendilino is 11 carriages. Plenty of space and reasonable seating in standard class. A brilliant comfortable train you need to travel on. I've found east coasts standard class accomodation comparible to virgins, but with less comfortable seats and bumpy ride in comparison. 1st class east coast gives great seating, but the ride isn't nice. Class 170 trains also seem to ride very well and have good leg room, they are common up here.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Aren't they class 43 locos with Mk III carriages on the Bristol to London route? I'm sure I've seen them on the line coming out of Parkway.
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So I stopped by on the way home from work and they are (based on a sample of one), and have hinged doors. I don't recall ever having to open one through the window, but my memory must be faulty or I've got them confused with something else, or maybe with another line (although the only other line I've used in years is the Chiltern Line).

I remember very well having to open the doors on the old Mk1s through the window as the internal catch always seemed to be jammed. The MkIII coaches are much newer so this appears to be a deliberate design feature. Odd.
 
Peter B said:
He also brought in quiet coaches as I recall, but I was never sure how well they worked?
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If I cannot book 1st class cheaply, I always book a quiet coach. It ensures you travel with a certain class of traveler. Ie one without noisy kids and one not intent on drinking beer, making noise and trying to engage you in conversation.
 
Laudrup said:
I was on the Siemens 380 from Glasgow to Ayr and it is a very rapid and quiet. I'm not a train buff but I always liked the British Rail Class 40 diesel. Think I had it in a train set.
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Class 380 is a terrific train but they seem reluctant to bring it on the Helensburgh - Edinburgh routes. Shame, as it has a brilliant ride quality and is very quiet. Sadly, though, they can only go 100mph so aren't suitable for main line routes where 125mph is what is needed.
 
onomatopoeia said:
So I stopped by on the way home from work and they are (based on a sample of one), and have hinged doors. I don't recall ever having to open one through the window, but my memory must be faulty or I've got them confused with something else, or maybe with another line (although the only other line I've used in years is the Chiltern Line).

I remember very well having to open the doors on the old Mk1s through the window as the internal catch always seemed to be jammed. The MkIII coaches are much newer so this appears to be a deliberate design feature. Odd.
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You got lucky. Someone else probably from outside did the job. You would only realistically have to do it yourself later in the evening when there are less people travelling, or at terminus stations. I had this pleasure quite a few times myself. If you were travelling with a bike (e.g. you cycled to Bath for fun and it was too late to cycle back to Bristol) then you have the joy of running along the platform to the end carriage before the train leaves! I found it both amusing and odd
 
ST4 said:
Class 380 is a terrific train but they seem reluctant to bring it on the Helensburgh - Edinburgh routes. Shame, as it has a brilliant ride quality and is very quiet. Sadly, though, they can only go 100mph so aren't suitable for main line routes where 125mph is what is needed.
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I'm on that line and the best we get is the Class 334 trains or the Super Sprinter which are nice but no Class 380s. I was on the really ancient Class 318 out to Balloch the other day and it was like going back in time.
 
Laudrup said:
I'm on that line and the best we get is the Class 334 trains or the Super Sprinter which are nice but no Class 380s. I was on the really ancient Class 318 out to Balloch the other day and it was like going back in time.
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334 has an awful ride properly, they really sway, squeak and the electric motors are really noisy. They are, despite being not much older than a 380, generations apart. Class 318 is actually quieter and smoother riding. Class 334 also gave a lot of problems when 1st released. The Super Sprinters run up the West highland line. I really wish they brought in class 170 for that route, these are so much nicer than class 156, 158 and even class 185. Very quiet and comfortable, great seats the 170. Probably the best of the diesel multiple units.
 
Going by most of the postings in here, I thought I am a seasoned armchair rail enthusiast! :pompous: :eek: :naughty:
 
ST4 said:
If I cannot book 1st class cheaply, I always book a quiet coach. It ensures you travel with a certain class of traveler. Ie one without noisy kids and one not intent on drinking beer, making noise and trying to engage you in conversation.
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I have found that a disadvantage of booking reserved seats in quiet class is there seems more risk of getting those annoying tables where you have to fight for legroom with the passengers opposite - I always try and book "airline style forward facing" if booking standard class seats but I sometimes think they prioritise giving you "quiet" seating over the style of seat if you specify quiet.

I've often seen noisy kids in quiet class also.
 
boliston said:
I have found that a disadvantage of booking reserved seats in quiet class is there seems more risk of getting those annoying tables where you have to fight for legroom with the passengers opposite - I always try and book "airline style forward facing" if booking standard class seats but I sometimes think they prioritise giving you "quiet" seating over the style of seat if you specify quiet.

I've often seen noisy kids in quiet class also.
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I must have been lucky, never came accross noisy children people in quiet class, nor dog owners, nor rowdy drunks. It is great. I love it. 1st class even more so but a quiet coach is fine. Leeds to Glasgow £17 each way, I can live without 1st class to travel so cheaply, and on Virgin West coast my inner child lights up as the train quiety glides along at 125mph and tilts in the bends. It is a joy to go on. I agree not to book table seats and I much prefer forward face, preferrably in the middle of the carriage as you are further from the wheels and suspension, which smooths out the ride and reduces noise levels.
 
I often travel from Somerset to the continent which means HST125 to London the Eurostar to Brussels or Paris, and the Eurostar really puts the HST125 to shame in terms of ride quality (and speed!). Most of the other trains on the continent (even non "high speed" ones) seem to give a much smoother ride than the First Great Western trains. Not sure if it's the rails or the trains that account mainly for the smoothness of ride though.
 
boliston said:
I often travel from Somerset to the continent which means HST125 to London the Eurostar to Brussels or Paris, and the Eurostar really puts the HST125 to shame in terms of ride quality (and speed!). Most of the other trains on the continent (even non "high speed" ones) seem to give a much smoother ride than the First Great Western trains. Not sure if it's the rails or the trains that account mainly for the smoothness of ride though.
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Most modern Uk rolling stock puts HST125 to shame in terms of ride quality, if not speed. HST is still damned fast, but without the active tilt (or even passive tilt fitted to super voyager) it isn't as fast as class 221 and 390. Class 225 can actually run at 140mph but without incab signalling it is only allowed to run at 125mph, which is a travesty. Class 390 can also run at 140mph. I'd love to take Eurostar.
 
ST4 said:
I have had the fortune on traveling on these a fair bit. They really are great and show us what a modern, electric train can be like.
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Pity we can't make great trains any more though, and have to buy them off the Italians :/
 
Pookeyhead said:
Pity we can't make great trains any more though, and have to buy them off the Italians :/
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...who we originally sold the tilting train technology to anyway! It had been developed for the "Advanced Passenger Train", which never reached proper production status due to a series of embarrassing mis-haps, although according to my dad (who worked for British Rail from the late 70's to late 80's as a telecoms and electronics engineer), most of the actual problems were not really BR's fault and were mostly down to bad luck (like the brakes freezing as BR had the misfortune to introduce it shortly before the worst winter in years, and the press supposedly getting motion sickness because they chose to indulge in the provided bar too much).

My dad never got to actually travel on the APT at the time, but he did get to see it on the London-Glasgow record breaking run from where he worked at Watford Junction. As he put it "shot through like a bat out of hell", and the lights on the train describer board were flashing through so quick that you'd blink and you'd miss them! Apparently all the signallers had got brutally told that if they did anything to hinder the train on its record attempt, then they could effectively consider themselves fired...
 
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stupar said:
Electric tilting trains are all fine and well but they will never out class an HST for the sound of 2 paxman valenta engines at full chat!
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Its been a while since you heard Valenta's in a HST. Currently MTU engines in the power cars on the FGW lines or Paxman VP185 on the EMT lines.

(Working for Man diesels, current owners of Paxman)
 
huffy said:
Its been a while since you heard Valenta's in a HST. Currently MTU engines in the power cars on the FGW lines or Paxman VP185 on the EMT lines.

(Working for Man diesels, current owners of Paxman)
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Yeah quite a few years since i have heard them but the sound is unforgettable in the mind - those turbochargers whistling away!

Only other sound that ranks high with the valenta engines is that in a class 37.
 
Count yourselves lucky, we still have the same 142, 150 and 158 sprinters that were here in the early 90s!
 
the one issue ive had with the pendolino's is that there is no luggage space. You cant fit anything in the overhead rack other than a jacket so you end up with bags and cases piled up at either end of the carriages. Whoever designed that overhead bit needs a slap.
 
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