viv1969
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Futile, but interesting, and ultimately harmless.
Don't like it? Don't read it. It's easy.
and please use their services
Peaches Geldof dead
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Futile, but interesting, and ultimately harmless.
Don't like it? Don't read it. It's easy.
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Heroin was the original trade name for the product, Diamorphine is the name of the drug itself. These days, Heroin is the term generally used to the stuff which is being abused while Diamorphine is the term used by doctors to hide the fact that their patients are being given Heroin.
I can't disagree at all, Stupid is probably an understatement. Whether there was any attempted cover up in this case is as yet conjecture, but I wouldn't be surprised. Such a waste of a life.
Bernie174
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Cover up? I doubt it.
No one is stupid enough to assume that removing a syringe, if that's what happened, or a powder cover rolled up fiver is going to cover up anything. From Quincy to CSI Bognor most of the population of the planet have seen and understand that you can remove whatever you like, it wont make a lot of difference, the cause of death is still apparent.
I've been to a lot of sudden deaths, people go into auto mode, they tidy things up, why? because officialdom in the form of Police, Ambulances, Doctors and undertakers are about to turn up.
Why has that got to be a 'cover up'?
No one is stupid enough to assume that removing a syringe, if that's what happened, or a powder cover rolled up fiver is going to cover up anything. From Quincy to CSI Bognor most of the population of the planet have seen and understand that you can remove whatever you like, it wont make a lot of difference, the cause of death is still apparent.
I've been to a lot of sudden deaths, people go into auto mode, they tidy things up, why? because officialdom in the form of Police, Ambulances, Doctors and undertakers are about to turn up.
Why has that got to be a 'cover up'?
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I very much doubt cover up was ment in the form of some official cover up Bernie more family sanitising the scene first so no need to go into full defence of the authorities mode right away
Bernie174
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Sorry, I wasn't referring to an official cover up. What I was trying to say is that families tidy up when they find a body. It happens, for the reasons I said, officials, police and the rest are about to decent on their home, they don't want them to think they live in a pig sty.
Even if there was something drugs related laying about because it was chucked away doesn't make it a cover up. This is the real world, and things happen that in the cold light of day perhaps shouldn't, or were done for the wrong reasons. unfortunately in this real world, human error, when it concerns anyone who's in the public light MUST for dubious reasoning be some for of conspiracy.
Even if there was something drugs related laying about because it was chucked away doesn't make it a cover up. This is the real world, and things happen that in the cold light of day perhaps shouldn't, or were done for the wrong reasons. unfortunately in this real world, human error, when it concerns anyone who's in the public light MUST for dubious reasoning be some for of conspiracy.
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Taking heroin recreationally may be stupid for a number of reasons but "it will probably kill you"? Nonsense.
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Its very sad all round, I think sometimes people really under estimate what can go wrong with taking drugs. Yes we now it a bad thing and yes we know it does harm.
There are however quite a lot of recreational heroin users who are not heavy users and as such deep in to doom addicts.
I used to know a barrister years ago who was a weekend heroin user and just said the stuff he used to get was such good stuff and he never had a bad day always proper straight up.
I think this will turn out to be something similar as a silly woman trying it out and just made a foolish mistake.
So Sad
There are however quite a lot of recreational heroin users who are not heavy users and as such deep in to doom addicts.
I used to know a barrister years ago who was a weekend heroin user and just said the stuff he used to get was such good stuff and he never had a bad day always proper straight up.
I think this will turn out to be something similar as a silly woman trying it out and just made a foolish mistake.
So Sad
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so you're saying that heroin abuse isn't bad for your health
it will probably kill you - or at least shorten your life - when you look at the risks associated with potential OD, potential poisioning from other elements, potential infection from dirty or shared needles , the potential for any injection to go wrong especially when you are injecting yourself , the physiological effects of long term abuse - plus the life style issues that come with addiction - its hard to see why the idea that it will probably kill you is nonsense.
It's nonsense because the vast majority of people who have tried heroin recreationally haven't died from it. "Probably" means more likely than not. The truth is that if you do take heroin you're pretty unlikely to die.so you're saying that heroin abuse isn't bad for your health
it will probably kill you - or at least shorten your life - when you look at the risks associated with potential OD, potential poisioning from other elements, potential infection from dirty or shared needles , the potential for any injection to go wrong especially when you are injecting yourself , the physiological effects of long term abuse - plus the life style issues that come with addiction - its hard to see why the idea that it will probably kill you is nonsense.
That doesn't mean it's not bad for your health of course.
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I'm sorry but thats rubbish - if you take heroin you may not die from it imediately , but it does increase your chances of dieing young - if you look at the deaths per annum of heroin abusers as a percentage of known abusers vs the annual general death rate as a percentage of general populastion , that former is massively higher than the latter. Ergo if you take heroin you are increasing your chances of an untimely death .
Indeed even among drug users only crack cocaine and crystal meth have a higher death rate
I'm not disputing that developing a heroin habit increases your chances of dying young. I'm saying that "if you take heroin you'll probably die" is nonsense. And it is.
Even for it to be true amongst long term users you'd need more than 50% of users dying from their habit. Which may be the case, I don't know. I expect it varies depending on user demographics. A habitual user in a deprived housing estate who already has numerous other socioeconomic problems which independently correlate with early death vs a doctor with a functional diamorphine habit (not unknown) who has plenty of cash and a comfortable lifestyle.
Either way the assertion that if you take heroin you will "probably" die is still nonsense.
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but only if we are arguing about semantics rather than the clear gist beind the statement (it should be clear that cambsno meant you'd have an increased chance - which is why he said probably not definitely)
and if you want to pointlessly debate semantics the statement that "the truth is is if you take heroin you won't die" is definitely nonsense - everyone who takes heroin dies, as does everyone who doesnt take heroin ! Taken litteraly (with the same lack of common sense you aplied to cambsno's post) you seem to be asserting that the truth is that if you take heroin you will become imortal
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It's not really playing semantics though, is it.
The statement I disputed was "if you take heroin it will probably kill you quickly".
If they'd said "if you develop a chronic heroin habit it will probably kill you eventually" I wouldn't have said that was nonsense. It might be rubbish, I don't know, but it's at least a credible claim.
viv1969
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Dog with a bone much?
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Lies, damn lies and statistics!
If you include every person who has used Opiates (plenty of OTC preparations include the family), it would be an interesting comparison.
ANY abused substance is harmful - even water can be overdosed on.
If you include every person who has used Opiates (plenty of OTC preparations include the family), it would be an interesting comparison.
ANY abused substance is harmful - even water can be overdosed on.
srichards
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From a recent study:
A new study analyses the risk factors and excess mortality among heroin and cocaine consumers admitted to treatment in Spain. The results reveal that the fatality rate among consumers of both drugs is 14.3 times higher than for the general population, while among those only using cocaine, it is 5.1 times higher.
Smoking kills more people because 20% of the population are still dumb enough to smoke. Heroin users are a tiny minority of even stupider people.
A new study analyses the risk factors and excess mortality among heroin and cocaine consumers admitted to treatment in Spain. The results reveal that the fatality rate among consumers of both drugs is 14.3 times higher than for the general population, while among those only using cocaine, it is 5.1 times higher.
Smoking kills more people because 20% of the population are still dumb enough to smoke. Heroin users are a tiny minority of even stupider people.
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True but water , alcohol, and tobbaco arent usually adulterated with who knows what to make them go further - to compare water with street heroin you'd first need to dilute the water with some jet fuel and a bit of industrial waste. (there was a spate of deaths last year where some heroin had been cut with strychnine ! )
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Pure speculation on my part but I think it likely that in spite of her happiness as a mother and her current lifestyle in general, she perhaps continued her drug habit occasionally but very much in secret. Afterall, recreationally (as snorting rather than injecting tends to be - I know from Chelsea socialite friends many years ago who I have been with snorting it) heroin is a 'happy' drug. If you've got the means and don't live in poverty it's the dependence and getting hold of it which is the unhappy part.
I reckon that it all went wrong on this particular occasion and contributed to her death but may not have necessarily been the only cause - We simply don't know at this stage.
What I find difficult to understand is that her husband didn't know or suspect her usage. Were they estranged or living apart?
Either way, she has thrown her life away and caused major grief to her family and for that I have little sympathy or respect.
I reckon that it all went wrong on this particular occasion and contributed to her death but may not have necessarily been the only cause - We simply don't know at this stage.
What I find difficult to understand is that her husband didn't know or suspect her usage. Were they estranged or living apart?
Either way, she has thrown her life away and caused major grief to her family and for that I have little sympathy or respect.
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Futile, but interesting, and ultimately harmless.
Don't like it? Don't read it. It's easy.
Ha ha sort of proves my point...However its a little obtuse to state its harmless.
A little clicking around, I see why you commented.
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Wouldn't waste my time on either.
Don't bother giving me a "What if a family member was a user?" None would be so stupid.
viv1969
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Ha ha sort of proves my point...However its a little obtuse to state its harmless.
A little clicking around, I see why you commented.
Discussions on the forums AREN'T harmless? Oh do tell.
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Yeh, that's what I thought.
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It will never happen to me....I truly hope it never does. Substance abuse and many other destructive addictions rarely give notice to those people around that could possibly help a victim. You see, turning to alcohol, drugs, self harm, food or in fact anything other than dealing with the issues that are troubling you are a very private decision never discussed, I mean its not like a rational decision, well not to the other family members or friends, to the victim it is the most rational decision they have ever made. Many people see it as a result of weakness, or worse stupidity! but there is so much more going on then most here would understand or want to see as the truth as to why some people need to escape in these ways.
Hence my "Futile" Comment.
viv1969
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a total of 80 syringes apparently, and 6.9g of 61% pure Heroin.
She certainly wasn't playing at it.
