Paul C. Buff products coming to the UK....

tiler65 said:
I went through to check out and this is what I was going to put on my payment.

Tomas was quoted as £32 to Finland..........go figure.

Supposed to be in the UK distribution centre.
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It was an estimate, apparently you'll get a mail or phone call with exact shipping. According to the support forums your orders are shipped from the UK.

Either way, I'm not one who's complaining, even if the postage is £50 per order.

3 x B1600 (640ws heads)
2 x Vagabond II

Approx £1500.

This is superb. End of Jackanory.
 
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tiler65 said:
I went through to check out and this is what I was going to put on my payment.

Tomas was quoted as £32 to Finland..........go figure.

Supposed to be in the UK distribution centre.
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bloody hell - I added an Einstein, Vagabond and ONE plm and the shipping went up to £63
 
spxxxx said:
bloody hell - I added an Einstein, Vagabond and ONE plm and the shipping went up to £63
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I just tried signing in and the site crashed - again. Maybe there's some construction going on - again?
 
spxxxx said:
Working again - I'd be interested if your shipping price has increased
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Oh yes, from £32 to £255.19! :lol:

Methinks they'll be back to the drawing board on that one.

Truth be told though, the total order price is the same as before:

3 x B1600
2 x VII

Total £1643.84 inc tax and postage.

All they've done is shave some of the gear prices and then add it to postage :shrug:

IMO they should have left the prices of the gear and the postage as they were.

Still, I'm not complaining. As much as the postage price looks ridiculous, it doesn't have any significant effect on the order total. The total is the same now as it was before the price decrease.

The issue with US and UK prices doesn't phase me, there is always going to be a large difference in retail prices due to tax, shipping, exchange rates, charges and all the other countless overheads.

When the funds are there, I'll be seriously considering 2 VII's and 3 B1600 (or 2 Einsteins) plus grids and modifiers.

The fact is I simply can't get that kind of deal with any other brand.
 
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Tomas Whitehouse said:
Oh yes, from £32 to £255.19! :lol:

Methinks they'll be back to the drawing board on that one.

Truth be told though, the total order price is the same as before:

3 x B1600
1 x VII

Total £1607.63 inc tax and postage.

All they've done is shave some of the gear prices and then add it to postage :shrug:

IMO they should have left the prices of the gear and the postage as they were.

Still, I'm not complaining.

When the funds are there, I'll be seriously considering 2 VII's and 3 B1600 (or 2 Einsteins) plus grids and modifiers.

I simply can't get that kind of deal with any other brand.
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See that sort of blatant price rigging would make me never use them .....

I see it as dishonest - do they think we are all stupid ? we know how much roughly postage costs.
 
spxxxx said:
See that sort of blatant price rigging would make me never use them .....

I see it as dishonest - do they think we are all stupid ? we know how much roughly postage costs.
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They've made a bad call on shaving off retail and adding to postage and I'd like to hazard a guess that this will be rectified sooner rather than later. Maybe maybe not.

Frankly I don't care. The overall price is the same.

Were not dealing with a large company like Elinchrom or Bowens here, were dealing with a small company that sells products direct and has just began to scratch the surface with international orders.

Paul Buff has been reluctant with EU distribution based on public failure to understand international price difference alone.

It honestly amazes me how anyone can actually conclude that they're actively trying to be outrageous or greedy.

Just look at my guinea pig order and suggest an alternative for the same price.
 
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Tomas Whitehouse said:
They've made a bad call on shaving off retail and adding to postage and I'd like to hazard a guess that this will be rectified sooner rather than later. Maybe maybe not.

Frankly I don't care. The overall price is the same.

Were not dealing with a large company like Elinchrom or Bowens here, were dealing with a small company that sells products direct and has just began to scratch the surface with international orders.

Paul Buff has been reluctant with EU distribution based on public failure to understand international price difference alone.

It honestly amazes me how anyone can actually conclude that they're actively trying to be outrageous or greedy.

Just look at my guinea pig order and suggest an alternative for the same price.
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Maybe so Tomas but I bet some of the bigger companies offer far better customer service reliability especially as PCB is an unknown quantity in Europe.

Returns policy alone must be worth that extra few quid?

EDIT

Don't you need to buy the stands too?
 
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Tomas Whitehouse said:
.

Were not dealing with a large company like Elinchrom or Bowens here, were dealing with a small company that sells products direct
.
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I'm not sure that that's right. Paul C Buff had a fair slice of the lighting market in the U.S. before they introduced their AB range, and about 3 years ago claimed to sell more than half of all flash heads sold in the U.S.
Since then they've expanded their range a lot. I don't know, but my guess is that they now sell far more flash heads in the U.S. than all other brands combined.

How much they sell them to the public for, how much they sell them to their new distributor for and how much their distributor sells them for is none of my business, I'm only commenting about your statement that they are a small Company.
 
tiler65 said:
Maybe so Tomas but I bet some of the bigger companies offer far better customer service reliability especially as PCB is an unknown quantity in Europe.

Returns policy alone must be worth that extra few quid?
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Fact is, we don't know what Buff customer services is going to be like in the UK, any opinion is merely speculation.

Buff seems to offer a 60 day money back guarantee and If there's a UK warehouse then I assume spare parts and returns will also be UK based, so, this could quite possibly be a non issue.

tiler65 said:
EDIT

Don't you need to buy the stands too?
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I have that many stands, I could probably open a small museum :lol:

If I didn't have an adequate amount of stands, I'd buy them from Finland or Germany anyway.
 
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Garry Edwards said:
I'm not sure that that's right. Paul C Buff had a fair slice of the lighting market in the U.S. before they introduced their AB range, and about 3 years ago claimed to sell more than half of all flash heads sold in the U.S.
Since then they've expanded their range a lot. I don't know, but my guess is that they now sell far more flash heads in the U.S. than all other brands combined.

How much they sell them to the public for, how much they sell them to their new distributor for and how much their distributor sells them for is none of my business, I'm only commenting about your statement that they are a small Company.
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So to continue speculations, essentially Buff is a small company that is fairly successful in the US. :)

So it's maybe safe to assume that customer service, repair and returns have the potential to follow suit. :thumbs:
 
Tomas, not sure if it's gonna affect you much, but it is widely regarded that the B1600s suck for action - too slow durations. the B400s are better but less power...
 
ruvor said:
Tomas, not sure if it's gonna affect you much, but it is widely regarded that the B1600s suck for action - too slow durations. the B400s are better but less power...
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Cheers mate, I was aware of that, personally I'd look at the Einstein for all the action freezing :thumbs:

Basically what I need is some more powerful battery operated mono's that can also be mains powered for the more static based shoots.

Such as rim lighting and background detail for larger scale location based shoots, both indoor and outdoor.

2 VII's and 3 B1600's should cover that nicely. I'm still doing my research though as I won't be buying until the fall.
 
There must be something wrong with those postage prices.

They dont think we are idiots, do they?



BTW:
Kris said:
An advantage that means I can use a 400w/s gun at a wedding. A 15kg outfit is of no practical use to me whatsoever.

Priorities.

:)
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I've checked the weights, and the Quadra is 1/6th the weight of b1600 with a vagaII.
 
Flash in the Pan has his own version of the PLMs coming soon, apparently.

Edit - nope. Wrong again.
 
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spxxxx said:
See that sort of blatant price rigging would make me never use them .....

I see it as dishonest - do they think we are all stupid ? we know how much roughly postage costs.
Click to expand...

You may find what has happened is that they've realised that stuff like studio lighting (also applies to camera lenses etc) isn't covered by the insurance given by regular (read cheap) shipping services and had to factor that in.

On the other hand they may just be "at it" :lol:
 
Bolloc.....

CotswoldPhoto I meant to say.

Sorry Flash.

Anyway, flash, get on the case! 7mm PLM 210cm, under £100, I'll have two!
 
Kris said:
An advantage that means I can use a 400w/s gun at a wedding. A 15kg outfit is of no practical use to me whatsoever.

Priorities.

BTW:
I've checked the weights, and the Quadra is 1/6th the weight of b1600 with a vagaII.
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Kris,

You've made yourself very clear mate, weight is your top priority but do you think it's possible that others may not have the same priorities as you?

Do you think it's possible that other folk may want more heads and more power for their £1500?
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Kris,

You've made yourself very clear mate, weight is your top priority but do you think it's possible that others may not have the same priorities as you?

Do you think it's possible that other folk may want more heads and more power for their £1500?
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Hey, no problem, I wasnt being pedantic and my comments certainly wasn't aimed at you or anybody else. As I said, use whatever you like, I couldn't give a monkeys. You may not be interested in the weight difference, but I, and perhaps others, may be.

Was just curious, and found out, that's all.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
No-one does cheap 7mm stuff....
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Flas, sorry CotsoldPhoto, PLMs will apparently be half the price of the Viewfinder copies, and available in 7mm. Viewfinder are bringing in 7mm at the same price, but not till later on in the Autumn.
 
Kris said:
Flas, sorry CotsoldPhoto, PLMs will apparently be half the price of the Viewfinder copies, and available in 7mm. Viewfinder are bringing in 7mm at the same price, but not till later on in the Autumn.
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I noticed that, I'll make a call...:naughty:
 
ding76uk said:
This may be a silly question, but as the Vagabond is just a battery with a pure sine wave inverter (not that I know what that means) and a plug to put your flash into. Would it be possible to use it with any mains powered flash? Or is my thinking way off?
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As far as I know, you can use other brands with Vagabond. I'm sure there was a compatibility chart somewhere.....:thinking:

EDIT: Couldn't find a chart but there is this:

1. What lights are the Vagabond II battery pack compatible with?

The Vagabond is a 12 Vdc to 120 Vac power supply for operating our 120 Vac flash units. It can power most other analog controlled flash units but some digitally controlled units will not tolerate the characteristic "voltage sag during recycle" of inverter type supplies like Vagabond. We don't attempt to determine which other flash units will or won't function properly. Vagabond is all self-contained and cannot power another battery pack. It can, however, be used with a car battery for very extended shooting.
This being said, we can't warranty your other equipment under these conditions because we didn't manufacture it.
We do offer a 60 day guarantee on everything you order from us so if you want to purchase one and try it out you have 60 days to decide if it will work for you or not.

Taken from here:

http://www.paulcbuff.com/faq.html#vlights

Bare in mind that the above is a US FAQ, they haven't written one for the Euro stuff yet.
 
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Tomas Whitehouse said:
...
With the exception of Lencarta, None of the leading brands offer a price equivalent...
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Hi Folks, looks like I am the new kid on the block here. Found this corner of the net via the lighting roumors newsletter.

As far a I understood, this discussion is about Allien Bees but in the context of affordable mobile flash, right?

The Lencartas Tom has mentioned, are - at least they undoubtly look that way - relabled Jinbeis.

Just compare the Jinbei DP head (the one at the top) with the monos offered by Lencarta.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laternamagica/4567087901/

I am pretty happy with a Jinbei Freelander 500 Set (400Ws) with an aditional RD400 Head with bowens-like-mount.

Some pictures about the set can be found here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laternamagica/sets/72157623679557432/

Most attractive was the price tag with roundabout 300 Euros for the Freelander Kit, the RD400 head and an umbrell reflector. - The 96cm Octobox was just nother 49 Euros.

So far the good news. Bad news, the supplier is lmost constantly sold out and I have heard about 50 Euro shipping to the UK.

Anyway, for those wishing to giv it a look (Jinbei also offers stronger akku packs nd portble RD heads):

http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/1459298/jinbei_fl-500_oplaadbare_flitsset.html
 
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diogenes said:
Hi Folks, looks like I am the new kid on the block here. Found this corner of the net via the lighting roumors newsletter.

As far a I understood, this discussion is about Allien Bees but in the context of affordable mobile flash, right?

The Lencartas Tom has mentioned, are - at least they undoubtly look that way - relabled Jinbeis.

Just compare the Jinbei DP head (the one at the top) with the monos offered by Lencarta.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laternamagica/4567087901/

I am pretty happy with a Jinbei Freelander 500 Set (400Ws) with an aditional RD400 Head with bowens-like-mount.

Some pictures about the set can be found here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laternamagica/sets/72157623679557432/

Most attractive was the price tag with roundabout 300 Euros for the Freelander Kit, the RD400 head and an umbrell reflector. - The 96cm Octobox was just nother 49 Euros.

So far the good news. Bad news, the supplier is lmost constantly sold out and I have heard about 50 Euro shipping to the UK.

Anyway, for those wishing to giv it a look (Jinbei also offers stronger akku packs nd portble RD heads):

http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/1459298/jinbei_fl-500_oplaadbare_flitsset.html
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I don't want to take this thread off topic, but to answer your specific question Lencarta is not Jinbei sold under a different name. As it clearly states on the Lencarta website, some Lencarta products are assembled at the Jinbei factory and items such as switches and cases are supplied by Jinbei, which gives them a similar look - it's just a question of economics, it costs a minimum of £30,000 for the tooling for a flash head case, so Lencarta uses stock cases to avoid wasting money.
But the critical components such as the flash tubes (German) and the capacitors (Japanese) are supplied to the factory, not by them. This becomes obvious if you look at the difference in the specs between Lencarta and Jinbei products.

Hope this helps
 
As soon I will know for sure to whom, how much and when I need to pay da money, I will happily pick up two Einsteins, VII, PLM and some other stuff for good start.

And I will never look back at any Chinese stuff like Lencarta, Jinbei and other NoNames.

It is about time to drop all my DIY cardboard softboxes and such ;-) [Elinchrom modifiers is the way to go]

IMO - £417 for one Einstein is a sweet price!!
 
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Hi Garry,

thanks for the clarification. However, even technically (as far as specs are concerned), I can not detect any signifficant differences, except for the stronger Modeling Light tube.

http://www.lencarta.com/flash-heads/fla001-elitepro-300-compact-flash-head/index.php
http://www.lencarta.com/flash-heads/fla002-elitepro-600-compact-flash-head/index.php
http://www.goldenshell.com.cn/en/productsDetalis.asp?id=36

I started with Jinbei a little bit more than a year ago and I am very satisfied with their value for money proposition. They are very rliable and 0.1 of a stop accurate.

Anyway, at the end of the day, whichever brand you prefer, I assume both are interesting options for photographers lighting on a budget.
 
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Guys this is getting OT by a mile ! please don't HiJack the thread.

There is a flood of Lencarta threads on this forum where you two can discuss this thing.
.
.
.
We could talk about amazing Einstein Spec here...
http://www.paulcbuff.com/pcb2009/einstein.html

Here you can take a look on the users review:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/888715/0?keyword=einstein#8357761

And about PCB gear here you can ask Paul Buff directly if you have for example ... capasitors related questions etc
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/876748
.
.
Cheers
Moth
 
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The pricing has been a hot topic over the last couple of days and I would personally like to clear a few things up.

I have been running the Asia Pacific side for the last 7 months, and will be running the European operation is in association with my Brother in the UK. In that time we have shipped to customers around the World including many in Europe. Our aim is to make it easier for European customers to purchase Buff Gear.

We are not associated with the Ex Distributor in Switzerland.

Paul's business model is based around selling direct without middle men, however he understands that Photographers around the world appreciate his equipment and has agreed for us to resell his products on the understanding that we do not receive a discount. We purchase the products at more or less the same price as a customer in America.

It is still early days for the EU store, as with the AU store we constantly monitor pricing. Some appear not happy with the pricing. With the VAT & customs duties this adds over a 1/5th to the US price and swallows up any exchange rate advantage.

Shipping on the site is only a quote, you will pay what we pay, it its more we will contact you for approval to proceed.

Australian Photographers are at an even greater disadvantage with not just the exchange rate but also freight, they have turned a negative into a positive and embraced the fact that someone has taken the time and effort to bring them a great product range which they would not otherwise have access too.

Both Stephen, myself and Paul have spent a great deal of time bringing this project to fruition and I hope that EU photographers can look past pricing and appreciate the high quality of his equipment and support they receive from Paul and his team.

If anyone has questions please contact via email info@paulcbuff.eu.com, there are a lot of people that have their own opinions please drop us a line if you would like the correct answer.

And for those customers that have already ordered, thanks for your support, and I am sure that customers that have purchased from us in Australia can vouch for the fact that we do offer customer service and will do the right thing by them.
 
Colin,

Very many thanks for that explanation, and I wish you all the best in your new venture.
But I'm not sure that AB's success in the States is due to 'high quality' - I think that it's more likely due to a mixture of low price and patriotism (or xenophobia) neither or which will cross the pond.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Colin,

Very many thanks for that explanation, and I wish you all the best in your new venture.
But I'm not sure that AB's success in the States is due to 'high quality' - I think that it's more likely due to a mixture of low price and patriotism (or xenophobia) neither or which will cross the pond.
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Hi Garry.

The products are highly thought of World Wide, I can vouch for that through sales in Australia. So I do not think Patriotism come into it. We already have had orders from customers across the pond.
 
Colin Smith said:
Paul's business model is based around selling direct without middle men, however he understands that Photographers around the world appreciate his equipment and has agreed for us to resell his products on the understanding that we do not receive a discount. We purchase the products at more or less the same price as a customer in America.

It is still early days for the EU store, as with the AU store we constantly monitor pricing. Some appear not happy with the pricing. With the VAT & customs duties this adds over a 1/5th to the US price and swallows up any exchange rate advantage.

Shipping on the site is only a quote, you will pay what we pay, it its more we will contact you for approval to proceed.
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This is why I am going off Paul C Buff stuff V quickly.

I want to expand into Europe, but my distributors will pay me the price I retail at in the USA. Well that is an idiotic way to expand your business to foreign territories!

Sorry but that shows how fussed he is about putting product into the UK.

You could go to the US, buy the products there, and come back and probably be better off if your shopping list is 2 Einstein's, a vagabond and a few modifiers.

As for your shipping only a quote. £63 is a complete con. You will in no way pay anything near that kind of cash and your pathetic get out attempt at reducing price due to complaints then adding it back on with postage is despicable. There is no way your shipping would be above £20-£30 for a large order, yet you think quoting £63 is "paying only what you pay" you must think we are idiots.

I was so looking forward to Buff products in the UK, but this complete farce has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth, and consequently I will not buy any Paul C Buff products now or in the future.
 
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Why some people have problems to understand that the US price is so low that there is very little margin for any discounts for resellers...

Stop complaining about price differences... Say 'thank you' to your government for VAT etc.

Are you crying and swearing every time when you are going to the gas station!!?? Shouting that it is outrageous that Americans have cheaper petrol !?

Wake up!

If Colin as a reseller is paying for the shipment - those costs are falling on the customer... Simple.

You can always fly to US and pick up your gear... Colin is simply doing that part for you, nothing else... But nothing is for free in this world

Best
Jaroslav

P.S. Go and ask Garry how much oryginaly cost his Chinese Kit, or simply check on Jinbei website, then check for how much you can get it in UK... Oh sorry , I forgot that there is different bulb ;-)
 
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Yes through resellers, but this is set up under the Paul C Buff company, not resellers, it is the guy who makes the products selling them through his own company yet still giving us this massive mark up, maybe you Mothman who are the one who needs to wake up! The company being called Paul C Buff Eu might have given you a clue?

If Buff would sell to me from the US, I could buy from there, arrange frieght to here, pay imports etc. and still pay less than the same company will sell me it in the UK, you may be fine with that, but I am not!

I also wonder that if Apple did similar with the Ipad it would have a simlar reaction?
 
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