Paul C. Buff products coming to the UK....

[Munchkinn]

AB are known to employ 'consultants' (who shall be nameless) to promote their products on websites, in magazine 'reviews' etc.

I'm not saying that that's a wrong thing do to, what is wrong in one country may not be wrong in another. All I'm saying is that it happens.

So they are no different from Canon and Nikon then....

 

[onform]

Can anyone explain why a silver parabolic reflector is £30 more expensive than a white one of same size???

Ignore me!! white one is just satin shoot through...

 

[Flash In The Pan]

As copied from my post to the announcement thread...........

Wow..........Why am I not surprised at the pricing structure.

Not only is everything more expensive but to some tune too.

AB1600 in the US $359

AB1600 in the UK £393

What is it with this country............why is everything so expensive.

Ouch.

Einstein
US = £286 (equivalent)
UK = £536

Oh well, never mind.
{shakes head, muttering 'what's the point....'}

Pricing Policy.

There is sometimes a mis-conception that items should be the same or a cheaper price than they are in other countries. Our pricing structure is based on a considerable number of factors that affect shipments arriving from overseas, These include:
The price that we purchase the goods for.
Freight.
Taxes.
Import duties.
Bank Charges.
Exchange Rates.

Self-explanatory really....

 

[spxxxx]

Self-explanatory really....

Actually Graham - it isn't remotely in line when you add VAT and import duties and shipping ..... there is a big bit presumably for the importer to make a profit in there somewhere

 

[Munchkinn]

Mr Buff did say that once (or if!) sales volumes get higher, then they will ship via boat which is a lot cheaper, bringing prices down further.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Actually Graham - it isn't remotely in line when you add VAT and import duties and shipping ..... there is a big bit presumably for the importer to make a profit in there somewhere

You've lost me, are you saying that the importer should have a mark-up?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

AB are known to employ 'consultants' (who shall be nameless) to promote their products on websites, in magazine 'reviews' etc.

You should suggest that to Lencarta, oh........wait..............

 

[spxxxx]

You've lost me, are you saying that the importer should have a mark-up?

No Graham - I'm saying that 20% plus for vat and import duties - shipping added leaves a lot of profit at these prices .... for Mr Buff or his agent

So infact he has priced himself out of the market here I suspect

 

[treeman]

Hmmmmm, could have done with knowing this a couple of months back :bang:

Damn you Graham....

 

[Flash In The Pan]

No Graham - I'm saying that 20% plus for vat and import duties - shipping added leaves a lot of profit at these prices .... for Mr Buff or his agent

So infact he has priced himself out of the market here I suspect

Define " a lot" Simon, from a quick calculation the UK agent's mark-up is only about £100 (over an assumed wholesale price) on something like the AB1600 :shrug:

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I'll be on my jack jones then.

I think £320 is just fine for the Vagabond II and £400 for a B1600 is not too bad at all. :shrug: It's even a 240v version too

I honestly expected the Einstein's to be higher than £600 first time around.

I'd pay £500 for an Einstein personally. Let us see if the prices drop after the buzz dies down.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I'll be on my jack jones then.

I think £320 is just fine for the Vagabond II and £400 for a B1600 is not too bad at all. :shrug: It's even a 240v version too

I honestly expected the Einstein's to be higher than £600 first time around.

I'd pay £500 for an Einstein personally. Let us see if the prices drop after the buzz dies down.

I wonder what the retail would be in Finnishland if they sold it there directly?

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I wonder what the retail would be in Finnishland if they sold it there directly?

Strike a light Charlie You can betcha bottom euro that it would be significantly more then £600.

The usual is a third ontop of a UK price tag. :thumbsdown:

This is interesting, I registered and whacked this lot in cart for a 'speriment......

The AlienBees B1600 Flash Unit
B1600 220V £393.4
Vagabond II £320.78
Subtotal: £714.21

Total: £714.21
Tax Total: £106.37

Standard Shipping: £32.57 (to Finland)

Now there's me thinking they would sodomise us on postage

 

[Pippy_Neville]

I wonder what the retail would be in Finnishland if they sold it there directly?

AB1600 = £Two yaks and an elk.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

AB1600 = £Two yaks and an elk.

No Yaks here, well not the kind that breaths, this you'll find plenty of, all over the decks on the ferries to Estonia

Elks, yes. We have Elk and it would probably be 2 Reindeers and an Elk for a single lick of Buff gear.

 

[spxxxx]

Define " a lot" Simon, from a quick calculation the UK agent's mark-up is only about £100 (over an assumed wholesale price) on something like the AB1600 :shrug:

You don't think that is a lot on a £239 item ?

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I think the websites broke!

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You don't think that is a lot on a £239 item ?

It's not a £239 item by the time it gets to these shores though, is it?

We're back onto the "how can you charge so much to shoot a wedding?" sort of thing....

 

[ding76uk]

Look of those prices! If you want a cpl of Einstein's and a vagabond then it would be cheaper to fly to the USA to get them.

Not going to get the UK market charging like that. AB are know for bang for the buck. Problem is the bang for the pound seems much less, and there are several alternatives at a similar price. Elinchrom DLite kit can be had for less than the cost of 2 b400 heads.

Seemingly another fine mess by Paul C Buff

Here they are planning their next power move

 

[spxxxx]

It's not a £239 item by the time it gets to these shores though, is it?

We're back onto the "how can you charge so much to shoot a wedding?" sort of thing....

yes it is .... It hasn't suddenly cost more - and we have added VAt etc

And no it is nothing like how much to shoot a wedding - this is the same item as for sale in the states - no different

 

[Garry Edwards]

I'm sure that Elinchrom/Bowens will breathe a sigh of relief at these prices, on some of their items AB are pitting themselves directly against decent quality products (in America they are priced to compete against cheap products) and I don't feel that many people will consider them to be equal to any of the major makes.

 

[spxxxx]

I'm sure that Elinchrom/Bowens will breathe a sigh of relief at these prices, on some of their items AB are pitting themselves directly against decent quality products (in America they are priced to compete against cheap products) and I don't feel that many people will consider them to be equal to any of the major makes.

Thanks Garry - so I'm not going mad then ...... don't get me wrong the Einstein is a great piece of kit ... just not at that markup

 

[Flash In The Pan]

yes it is .... It hasn't suddenly cost more - and we have added VAt etc

And no it is nothing like how much to shoot a wedding - this is the same item as for sale in the states - no different

Did you compain about the UK-US price difference when you bought your camera?

 

[ding76uk]

Did you compain about the UK-US price difference when you bought your camera?

Cameras are not that much difference. Example with 5D2

USA $2465 = £1614
UK £1697

Both used amazon UK and US, so fair comparison.

I will put on record, Paul C Buff have shot themselves in the foot with this, and will pull out of Europe again sooner rather than later.

Elinchrom, Bowens or Alien Bees. Faced with the choice which are most people going to go for?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Did you compain about the UK-US price difference when you bought your camera?

You're right of course, but people have very little choice when it comes to cameras. People have choices with studio flash

 

[spxxxx]

Did you compain about the UK-US price difference when you bought your camera?

Mildy - but as I wanted a certain make / model it wasn't an option.

Here there are plenty of rival makes that do the job as well if not better - my point is that the excess profit margin will loose them money in the end.

It is untried product on the most part from UK buyers - unlike major camera manufacturers - therefore they will stick with known product

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I'm sure that Elinchrom/Bowens will breathe a sigh of relief at these prices, on some of their items AB are pitting themselves directly against decent quality products (in America they are priced to compete against cheap products) and I don't feel that many people will consider them to be equal to any of the major makes.

Thanks Garry - so I'm not going mad then ...... don't get me wrong the Einstein is a great piece of kit ... just not at that markup

You're right of course, but people have very little choice when it comes to cameras. People have choices with studio flash

Gentlemen, you are missing some details;

Take into consideration that Buff stuff predominantly provides mobile and highly portable sytems.

The single benefit or advantage from Buff is not the mains powered studio lighting department, it's head & pack systems that you can take out and about.

Take Elinchroms efforts:

Elinchrom Quadra.
400ws Power pack unit, battery, charger, 2 A heads, 2 connecting cables, hard case £1522.60

Then there's the Ranger Packs that start around the £1500 regions

I haven't a clue when it comes to Bowens gear, if someone could offer a rough price of a Bowens head and pack, it'd be nice.

A Buff head plus power:
The AlienBees B1600 £393.4
Vagabond II £320.78 Total £714.21

Major established brands and their pricing on portable solutions could possibly be in some kind of jeopardy. I have a suspicion that Buff could do just as well as he wants to in the EU/UK.

Only time will tell aye fellers Let us see.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You're right of course, but people have very little choice when it comes to cameras. People have choices with studio flash

I would have thought if anything it was the other way round....

 

[Mothman]

AB are known to employ 'consultants' (who shall be nameless) to promote their products on websites, in magazine 'reviews' etc.

Oh please!!!

Please take a look at flickr which is flooded with photos taken with AB equipment!
There is a lot of amazing quality stuff in people portfolios. David Hobby and Joey L were shooting with this gear commercial photos – eventually they moved to Profoto for obvious reasons.

IMO:

I was looking on Lencarta stuff for a while - and I must say that the thing which put me off - was that I simply couldn’t find descent photos produced with this gear!
For long time there was not much good quality photos even on Lencarta website! [on main page there is a photo which for me is simply showing issue with flash duration!]

Especially pictures from Lencarta workshops showing the mediocre quality of light (or their modifiers)

Ok… now you can burn me at the stake! But this is how Lencarta is appearing to usual people who browsing over the web for lighting kit - like me!!

---

£539 for Lencarta Battery – and you can play wit two half powered Heads

£350 for Vagabond – and you can fire couple of lights at Full power [slower racycling time] you can go with cheaper AB or...

£500+ for Einstein – well I think it might be worth it - price went up already in the US

Best
Jaroslav

 

[HarryL]

Gentlemen, you are missing some details;

Take into consideration that Buff stuff predominantl provides mobile and highly portable sytems.

The single benefit from Buff is not the mains powered lighting department, it's head and pack systems.

Take Elinchroms efforts:

Elinchrom Quadra.
400ws Power pack unit, battery, charger, 2 A heads, 2 connecting cables, hard case £1522.60

Then there's the Ranger Packs that start around the £1500 regions

A Buff equivalent
The AlienBees B1600 £393.4
Vagabond II £320.78 Total £714.21

I have a suspicion that Buff could do just as well as he wants to.

Only time will tell aye fellers

But the Ranger and the Vagabond are not the same thing though. The Ranger is a dedicated battery unit whereas the Vagabond is just the same as a Tronix Explorer + 500Ws monobloc. There's going to be major differences in terms of recycling time, battery capacity and safety issues (imagine mains power exposed under the good old English weather).

Furthermore, you get two heads with the Ranger, only one with the Vagabond setup. If price is an issue, there's the Lencarta Safari 600Ws battery pack costing under £1000 including two S-fit heads. Like the Ranger the Safari is a dedicated unit, with all the benefits as well as 1000 full-blown flashes off one battery charge.

 

[spxxxx]

Gentlemen, you are missing some details;

Take into consideration that Buff stuff predominantly provides mobile and highly portable sytems.

The single benefit or advantage from Buff is not the mains powered studio lighting department, it's head & pack systems that you can take out and about.

Take Elinchroms efforts:

Elinchrom Quadra.
400ws Power pack unit, battery, charger, 2 A heads, 2 connecting cables, hard case £1522.60

Then there's the Ranger Packs that start around the £1500 regions

I haven't a clue when it comes to Bowens gear, if someone could offer a rough price of a Bowens head and pack, it'd be nice.

A Buff head plus power:
The AlienBees B1600 £393.4
Vagabond II £320.78 Total £714.21

I have a suspicion that Buff could do just as well as he wants to.

Only time will tell aye fellers

You aren't comparing the same type of product .... take the vagabond and head out in any type of light rain and then come back with your findings.

Also the weight difference is quite substantial - and does have an effect on portability

Don't get me wrong I think the AB system is great - but really did it need this sort of price hike

 

[ding76uk]

I think it would be more fair to compare Quadra kits with 2 Einstein's personally, which is where the pricing becomes less clear cut. Also Quadra Kit's include Skyports, so factor those in as well and it is less clear cut

£1080 for the heads, trigger set £220, £320 for a vagabond.

Adds up to lot more to me.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

But the Ranger and the Vagabond are not the same thing though. The Ranger is a dedicated battery unit whereas the Vagabond is just the same as a Tronix Explorer + 500Ws monobloc. There's going to be major differences in terms of recycling time, battery capacity and safety issues (imagine mains power exposed under the good old English weather).

You aren't comparing the same type of product...

Also the weight difference is quite substantial - and does have an effect on portability

Don't get me wrong I think the AB system is great - but really did it need this sort of price hike

I'm aware of the differences guys, thats why Buff is cheaper. Elinchrom don't offer anything portable that's any cheaper than the Quadra, so what else are your options at below a £1000 with leading brands? Only one brand actually - Lencarta.

I admit there aren't any real direct comparisons, this is where Buff gear should have a step in the door.

Bottom line is they both are designed to provide light with portability in mind.

If your on a budget, you'll take the con's if their in line with your needs.

A Tronix pack and an AC head aren't quite the same, AB heads are dinky and very light. Combine this with the bulk of your average monobloc and AB's will be more portable.

.... take the vagabond and head out in any type of light rain and then come back with your findings.

There's a really cool photographer living here, she's originally from the states and uses AB's, she shoots in all kinds of terrain and conditions just fine. I'm doin a collaborative shoot with her next week, really lookin forward to it.
Andrea Joki

and this chap also puts buff through it's paces too.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I think it would be more fair to compare Quadra kits with 2 Einstein's personally....

Even though there's a considerable difference in power output?

Thats a 400ws compared to a 640ws.

 

[Mothman]

640WS x2


it is making difference - but only if you will forget the weight issue!

 

[Kris]

Half a stop is not that great.

You can remotely control quadras, which is a huge benefit to me.

 

[Mothman]

When you will plug two Quadra heads - you will not get 400WS from A output which is making FULL stop difference

... and you still have another 640WS on other side of your subject - and on other side of the Quadra you have 166WS or something like that

640WS + 640WS .......... 266WS + 166WS


for me it is a difference

 

[Tyke Tiler]

640WS x2


it is making difference - but only if you will forget the weight issue!

Quadra's are only available with a 70-30% power distribution when using the two heads off one pack though.

I use a Quadra regularly and there's no way I'd take it over 2 Einsteins personally.

 

[Mothman]

Tomas did you see my post above yours? ;-)

 

[HarryL]

You aren't comparing the same type of product .... take the vagabond and head out in any type of light rain and then come back with your findings.

Also the weight difference is quite substantial - and does have an effect on portability

Don't get me wrong I think the AB system is great - but really did it need this sort of price hike

Yes Tronix Explorer, Bowens travelpak and the Vagabond all use 1 or 2 SLAs (sealed lead acid) batteries (car batteries in other words) to crank up the voltage to 220-240v so AC monoblocs can be used outdoors (without rain that is).

And I believe Profoto, Hensel Porty, Ranger and the Safari all use 12-24v NiMH or Lithuim batteries.

Safety aside, the size and weight are VERY different.