Party photography

gercam

gercam

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My friend has asked me to take photos at her husband's 50th birthday party on Saturday night. I am doing this as a favour as it will give me good experience.

My question is what lens would be best and what settings would be best? It is a sit down dinner for 30.

I have a canon 40d, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 F4.0 non is and a nifty fifty.

Do I want to avoid using flash? Both on and off camera?

Would really appreciate all advice. - thanks
 
17-55 2.8 should be fine. A fifty will be quite restrictive on the canon's crop sensor as it act like an 80mm so you will need quite a bit of distance between you and subject if you are shooting groups.
Off camera flash is better than on camera if you have it as less chance of "red eye".
 
The 50mm would be great for personal shots of the birthday boy - opened up to f1.8 can produce some nice images, make sure the eyes are sharp, most important!

try the subject against a window -using natral light as opposed to flash, is always a better option in my opinion

Les :thumbs:
 
i did this for a friend's 40th a few months back.. but made it perfectly clear that i would be enjoying myself at the party as well. I just used the 50mm and a speedlight which did the job (but i'm on full frame). Sit down dinner may be slightly different and you may need something wider ie 17-55.. my party was DJ, disco, speeches etc.. and plenty of booze. Got some great candids though.. the best pictures are the reportage ones where people are having a natter or gesturing with hands etc..

I just stuck the flash on ETTL and fired away .. don't want to hijack.. but here's a few examples... good luck :thumbs:


FB_001.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_186.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_063.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_189.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr
 
Lez325 said:
The 50mm would be great for personal shots of the birthday boy - opened up to f1.8 can produce some nice images, make sure the eyes are sharp, most important!

try the subject against a window -using natral light as opposed to flash, is always a better option in my opinion

Les :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thanks for reply. No natural light as in a restaurant- should have mentioned that!

Am I right un saying that the 50mm is good in dark surroundings? Should I crank up the iso and see how fast shutter speed would go?
 
boliston said:
17-55 2.8 should be fine. A fifty will be quite restrictive on the canon's crop sensor as it act like an 80mm so you will need quite a bit of distance between you and subject if you are shooting groups.
Off camera flash is better than on camera if you have it as less chance of "red eye".
Click to expand...

Thanks for reply. Think I will take the 50mm and the 17-55 and have a play.

Any other advice greatly accepted
 
If there's a white or light coloured ceiling that's not a million miles high, bounce-fill flash is the best technique. This is my favourite device - Lumiquest QuikBounce http://www.lumiquest.com/store/products/LumiQuest-Quik-Bounce.html though you'll get a similar result using a Stofen-type diffuser cap or just a humble bounce-card, like this www.abetterbouncecard.com Doesn't have to be very big, a business card attached to the flash head with a rubber band works very well - seriously! Give it a go :)
 
leftcurl said:
i did this for a friend's 40th a few months back.. but made it perfectly clear that i would be enjoying myself at the party as well. I just used the 50mm and a speedlight which did the job (but i'm on full frame). Sit down dinner may be slightly different and you may need something wider ie 17-55.. my party was DJ, disco, speeches etc.. and plenty of booze. Got some great candids though.. the best pictures are the reportage ones where people are having a natter or gesturing with hands etc..

I just stuck the flash on ETTL and fired away .. don't want to hijack.. but here's a few examples... good luck :thumbs:


FB_001.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_186.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_063.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr


FB_189.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Great photos - that is what I am looking to do.

If I stick speedlite on ETTL - is that automatic?
 
HoppyUK said:
If there's a white or light coloured ceiling that's not a million miles high, bounce-fill flash is the best technique. This is my favourite device - Lumiquest QuikBounce http://www.lumiquest.com/store/products/LumiQuest-Quik-Bounce.html though you'll get a similar result using a Stofen-type diffuser cap or just a humble bounce-card, like this www.abetterbouncecard.com Doesn't have to be very big, a business card attached to the flash head with a rubber band works very well - seriously! Give it a go :)
Click to expand...

Will a business card seriously work?
 
I would seriously not discount using a flash
external flash
bounced up and with a catchlight card as mentioned (i used a 6x4 photo printing paper and an elastic band on my 430ex before I bought the 580exII)
then get some extra light in there, and 2nd curtain the flash imho.
then you can get some ambient colour on there
I have a couple of samples

these were done with the 50mm 1.4, on a 40D


Not a corporate party but low lighting etc
iso 800, f3.2, 1/60s and manual mode with some diffused flash I think
 
Last edited:
gercam said:
My friend has asked me to take photos at her husband's 50th birthday party on Saturday night. I am doing this as a favour as it will give me good experience.

My question is what lens would be best and what settings would be best? It is a sit down dinner for 30.

I have a canon 40d, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 F4.0 non is and a nifty fifty.

Do I want to avoid using flash? Both on and off camera?

Would really appreciate all advice. - thanks
Click to expand...

I would go down the route of trying to beg/borrow(not steal) some sort of Speedlite

I go for the flash on ETTL and depending on the lighting, ISO800, 1/60 sec @ f4 or so should get you through.
 
gercam said:
Great photos - that is what I am looking to do.

If I stick speedlite on ETTL - is that automatic?
Click to expand...

i think i took a few early doors without flash when there was enough light in the room with the 50mm.. then i stuck the flash on a bit later.

yes ETTL basically takes an exposure reading (like your camera would) and then fires accordingly dependant on the ambient light.. but you can still adjust the power.. actually - i don't know what flash you have, so i'm only going off my canon 430 and 580 spec.

you can of course take a few trial pics to see the effect of flash and then adjust the power / direction of the head accordingly. :thumbs:
 
gercam said:
Will a business card seriously work?
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely. It's no different to the little white card that pulls out of the top of most flash guns, except the Canon 430EX doesn't have one. I kinda assumed you had a 430EX, I'm not sure why!

Anyway, try it. Try direct flash first, then point the gun straight up to a white ceiling for bounce flash, and then use the card with the gun also pointing up for a bounce-fill effect. Then try angling the head slightly forward, and that will reflect a bit more light forward off the card.

Compare the results. The bounce-fill option with the card will have most of the light bouncing down off the ceiling for a nice soft light, then the card directs a small amount of light directly forward so it lightens shadows under eyes and chins, and puts a sparkle in the eyes.

Next trick is to shoot on Av so the camera will automatically drop the shutter speed to match the ambient, lightening the background. You can independently adjust the brightness of the flash and background by using the compensation comntrols on the camera (for ambient light) and on the flash (for flash balance).

Final trick is to put a light orange gel over the flash, known as a CTO gel, so that the flash matches the colour of tungsten ambient light (assuming the ambient light is tungsten).
 
I have an ettl ef500 speed lite if that helps any advice- but I have never used it!!
 
gercam said:
My friend has asked me to take photos at her husband's 50th birthday party on Saturday night. I am doing this as a favour as it will give me good experience.

My question is what lens would be best and what settings would be best? It is a sit down dinner for 30.

I have a canon 40d, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 F4.0 non is and a nifty fifty.

Do I want to avoid using flash? Both on and off camera?

Would really appreciate all advice. - thanks
Click to expand...

Why restrict yourself with a 50. The 17-55 will give you the freedom that you may very well end up needing. Sure it's faster but 2.8 is by no means slow. As far as setting go, well how would we know that? Depends on the available light.
 
with a flash, I agree. the 17-55 is a great, versatile and sharp lens

for quality portraits, I wouldn't want to go over iso800 on a 40D.
 
Okay so the party was on Saturday night and I got a few shots that I thought were okay. I set my camera on manual with F4.0 aperture, shutter speed at 1/50 and iso at 800. I used the speedlight at ettl and crossed my fingers!! I will post some shots on C&C and see what you think. Thanks for all your help
 
gercam said:
Okay so the party was on Saturday night and I got a few shots that I thought were okay. I set my camera on manual with F4.0 aperture, shutter speed at 1/50 and iso at 800. I used the speedlight at ettl and crossed my fingers!! I will post some shots on C&C and see what you think. Thanks for all your help
Click to expand...

Where you in very low light? ISO 800 seems very high with a flash. Post you pics so we can see. ;)
 
Were you in very low light? ISO 800 seems very high with a flash
Click to expand...
Whenever I take flash photos indoors at a party I generally use the following settings:-
F4
60th Sec
ISO 800

Upping the ISO makes a huge difference as it brings in the ambient light of the room and you get more results like leftcurl's first pic rather than the middle pic where the subject looks like he was photographed inside a cave!!

Sure, you get a little more noise, but overall the images are better without so much of the 'flashed' look to them.

Cheers,
Bernie
www.greatphotographytips.co.uk
 
bernieraffe said:
Whenever I take flash photos indoors at a party I generally use the following settings:-
F4
60th Sec
ISO 800

Upping the ISO makes a huge difference as it brings in the ambient light of the room and you get more results like leftcurl's first pic rather than the middle pic where the subject looks like he was photographed inside a cave!!

Sure, you get a little more noise, but overall the images are better without so much of the 'flashed' look to them.

Cheers,
Bernie
www.greatphotographytips.co.uk
Click to expand...

I thought lowering the shutter is how you bring in more ambient light?
 
shaylou said:
I thought lowering the shutter is how you bring in more ambient light?
Click to expand...

Lowering the shutter speed, upping the ISO or opening the aperture all increase the amount of ambient light, just like taking a photo without flash. But 100 ISO with a 3 second shutter isn't what you want for every photo, so you alter the three variables to suit the look you want.
 
Jayst84 said:
Lowering the shutter speed, upping the ISO or opening the aperture all increase the amount of ambient light, just like taking a photo without flash. But 100 ISO with a 3 second shutter isn't what you want for every photo, so you alter the three variables to suit the look you want.
Click to expand...

Technically yes it will effect the over all exposure but not the same as a none flash pic exposure. That part I do understand. It seems as though flash exposure is being grouped as the same as none flash exposure here.
 
Jayst84 said:
Lowering the shutter speed, upping the ISO or opening the aperture all increase the amount of ambient light, just like taking a photo without flash. But 100 ISO with a 3 second shutter isn't what you want for every photo, so you alter the three variables to suit the look you want.
Click to expand...

Set up a shoot at f5 and increase the aperture till you get to f2.8 and see what you get. Sure the ambient light will seem brighter but it will be hard to notice because the flash brightness has gotten so bright. As sly says in his book, aperture controls flash brightness shutter controls ambient light.
 
shaylou said:
Set up a shoot at f5 and increase the aperture till you get to f2.8 and see what you get. Sure the ambient light will seem brighter but it will be hard to notice because the flash brightness has gotten so bright. As sly says in his book, aperture controls flash brightness shutter controls ambient light.
Click to expand...

The phrase aperture controls the flash and shutter speed controls the ambient is used so beginners can grasp the very basics, but of course it is not really true.

As attaching a flash to your camera does not change the laws of physics, the ambient light is affected by all three variables in exactly the same way as in a photograph taken without flash.

In your scenario, the flash will only be brighter if you have it set to manual, and don't alter that setting to compensate for the wider aperture. If you have it set to eTTL (as the OP) then it will automatically compensate and lower the flash output. Either way, you will notice the increase in ambient exposure exactly the same as if there was no flash. :thumbs:
 
I thought lowering the shutter is how you bring in more ambient light?
Click to expand...
That's correct, but lowering the shutter speed starts taking you into the realm of 'dragging the shutter' whereby anything or anybody lit with the ambient light starts to show movement. This can be a great trick for those occasional party and dance type photos with a sharpish and blurred subject and swirling lights etc... But not something you want to do all the time.

As others have rightly said, you can also open the aperture to say F2.8, but obviously the depth of field will be narrower, so I always used F4 (I'm an ex-wedding photographer and the settings I gave are what I generally used indoors at the reception)

Bernie
 
Jayst84 said:
The phrase aperture controls the flash and shutter speed controls the ambient is used so beginners can grasp the very basics, but of course it is not really true.

As attaching a flash to your camera does not change the laws of physics, the ambient light is affected by all three variables in exactly the same way as in a photograph taken without flash.

In your scenario, the flash will only be brighter if you have it set to manual, and don't alter that setting to compensate for the wider aperture. If you have it set to eTTL (as the OP) then it will automatically compensate and lower the flash output. Either way, you will notice the increase in ambient exposure exactly the same as if there was no flash. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how that phrase got into photo folklore, becuase it's neither true nor very helpful.

The only truth is that shutter speed does not effect flash exposure* and flash power does not effect ambient exposure.

* unless you're using high speed sync, when it does, eg fill-in outdoors.
 
HoppyUK said:
I'm not sure how that phrase got into photo folklore, becuase it's neither true nor very helpful.

The only truth is that shutter speed does not effect flash exposure* and flash power does not effect ambient exposure.

* unless you're using high speed sync, when it does, eg fill-in outdoors.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was being a bit generous when I said it was helpful to beginners. ;) It's more misleading than anything. People manage to sell books supposedly teaching people about this as well. Probably the same people who sell books telling readers that a longer focal length will give them a shallow depth of field. :p
 
Jayst84 said:
Yeah, I was being a bit generous when I said it was helpful to beginners. ;) It's more misleading than anything. People manage to sell books supposedly teaching people about this as well. Probably the same people who sell books telling readers that a longer focal length will give them a shallow depth of field. :p
Click to expand...


Interesting considering those are the same books that were so highly recommended here....
 
Same post different party :)

Another friend has asked me to take photographs at her husbands party on Saturday night. This will be a real party - 140 people, dancing, flashing lights etc.

Do I stick to the settings I used before ie f4.0 shutter speed 1/60, ISO 800 and put flashlight on ETTL?

All/any help very gladly accepted
 
For dancing I'd recommend upping to 1/125th and dropping to F2.8
 
Not sure if its been mentioned before but this site will give you a very good knowledge of using flash, well worth looking through it before the next party.

http://neilvn.com/tangents/

Neil has a very easy to understand way of explaining things, with lots of examples.
He tends to favour bouncing behind him rather than up and forward, might be worth giving that a go.

Although this page is about wedding receptions i'd say its pretty much the same for a party situation.
http://neilvn.com/tangents/bounce-flash-wedding-receptions/
 
bernieraffe said:
Whenever I take flash photos indoors at a party I generally use the following settings:-
F4
60th Sec
ISO 800

Upping the ISO makes a huge difference as it brings in the ambient light of the room and you get more results like leftcurl's first pic rather than the middle pic where the subject looks like he was photographed inside a cave!!

Sure, you get a little more noise, but overall the images are better without so much of the 'flashed' look to them.

Cheers,
Bernie
www.greatphotographytips.co.uk
Click to expand...



That is good advice.
 
Being new to using a DSLR I'm hoping that this thread and the replies in it will help me out next weekend, it's my 21st and my cousins 30th and I'm using my new birthday gift to take a few snaps. Still not got to grips with everything yet so using some of the settings here as a starter and working my way around should hopefully get some good end results! :)
 
sorry to hijack :
I did a birthday party recently (my first one). I found it hard using aperture of 4 and speeds of 1/30-1/125 using Nikon D90 with external flash.
The problems I encountered:
movement in random people around the room as shutter speed is slow ( when I took photos of the room in general)
using aperture priority - no good as it really slowed shutter speed down and I couldn't handhold.
manual - was best setting, but even using ISO of 1600, I found I was underexposed and had to increase light levels in PP.

Is there any other advice people can give me?
 
I think (but am usually wrong) that making the flash the main or dominant light source would allow you to freeze movement, so by cutting down the ambient light causes the flash to take over. Of course this gives a different look so its a matter of balancing the two light sources.
Were you bouncing the flash?
 
yeah flash was bounced. what do you mean "by making flash the main or dominant light source" - I ask as range of subject may have been from 1-10 metres.
 
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