Park Cameras - Selling open box items as new?

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Rich_Ellis said:
Seriously? They are happy to support anyone that buys from uk dealers? Come on, they don't give a stuff about anyone that doesn't buy from them. UK dealer or grey, they view them as the same if it wasn't sold by themselves!!!
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they don't have any choice if they want to sell canikon(or whatever) as its in the contract with canon uk etc

also you've missed my point - anyone who buys from uk dealers is a potential customer for dealer a - anyone who buys grey isnt - unless dealer a can convince them of the eror of their ways by making it difficult for them to get their grey purchase serviced
 
Overexposed said:
Im not in favour or evasion of duty but my issue here is that these Grey items are exactly the same item as a UK item made on the same line.
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except they arent - having not been handled in the same way and not having the same chargers etc -see the sigma link above

Overexposed said:
They are identifiable by serial number so why should an agent wish to see proof of duty or an invoice particularly on a camera outside its warranty period. No agent has the right to ask you for proof of duty paid as it has nothing to do with them.
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because their policy is that they won't handle smuggled items - so proof of payment of correct vat etc is an easy way of demonstrating that an item wasnt smuggled
 
big soft moose said:
they don't have any choice if they want to sell canikon(or whatever) as its in the contract with canon uk etc

also you've missed my point - anyone who buys from uk dealers is a potential customer for dealer a - anyone who buys grey isnt - unless dealer a can convince them of the eror of their ways by making it difficult for them to get their grey purchase serviced
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Have you seen a contract? So much speculation taken as gospel. How do you know they have a "policy" against repairing "smuggled" gear?

This is getting ridiculous, debating with someone who is making stuff up and treating it as fact! MPB have a reference to it in their tob and a handful of guys say they were asked although their website makes no mention of only UK gear, their web form doesn't ask and their process makes no mention of any additional info requirement but it must be FACT cos someone emailed them....! No idea what the tob driver is, who the person answering the email is or how the question was worded etc etc.

No approaches made to any other 2nd hand dealer who is in the market and equally make no ref to not accepting non UK sourced items on their sites.

If they didn't want them and it was a "policy" decision why not make it clear and have it up in flashing lights everywhere? It isn't cos they don't. Yeah they don't want to be seen to be supporting 'smuggling' so they have it in their tob. Any self respecting business would.

All 2nd hand gear that was originally bought after some brilliant negotiation and at a reduced price is worth less than the general market for an identical item 'cos you paid less in the first place' according to you. It's just silly and so far away from reality and everyday life it's untrue.
 
Oh and Fixation repair canikon and sig and only ask for proof of purchase if in warranty for UK, eu, or worldwide Warranties. If paying, don't even ask!
 
Seriously? Another import thread.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...rey-imports-and-other-assorted-topics.512133/

There will be a sticky coming soon that will cover all aspects of:
Importing generally
Grey imports
Tax and Duty Implications
Your responsibilities as an importer

Any and all discussions on the above topics will be contained in the one thread. It will NOT be acceptable to drag EVERY thread on buying from non-eu countries into the same discussions.
 
Overexposed said:
No agent has the right to ask you for proof of duty paid as it has nothing to do with them.
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They have the right to ask for anything they like - because they are under no legal obligation to do anything at all. Your legal agreement is with the retailer. Yes, manufacturers often offer warranties, but they are under no legal obligation to do so and they can insist on any conditions they want to.
 
Canon will happily service grey goods. But they will charge for any out of UK/Global warranty repairs.
CPS is a service for professionals, for service and repairs, and covers pros travelling and working in different countries to their origin.
 
twist said:
Seriously? Another import thread.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...rey-imports-and-other-assorted-topics.512133/

There will be a sticky coming soon that will cover all aspects of:
Importing generally
Grey imports
Tax and Duty Implications
Your responsibilities as an importer

Any and all discussions on the above topics will be contained in the one thread. It will NOT be acceptable to drag EVERY thread on buying from non-eu countries into the same discussions.
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This thread wasn't even about buying from non-eu countries. It was originally about park camera's selling an open box item and the purchaser returning it before buying another from Amazon (and not a marketplace seller).
Someone could write a book on this, '50 debates of grey', although after the 1st couple of pages it'd just be endless repetition.
 
stu.artd said:
This thread wasn't even about buying from non-eu countries. It was originally about park camera's selling an open box item and the purchaser returning it before buying another from Amazon (and not a marketplace seller).
Someone could write a book on this, '50 debates of grey', although after the 1st couple of pages it'd just be endless repetition.
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yep it sidetracked into the tedious discussion of grey because i said that it was pointles buying a grey item instead of a split kit, if you were worried about resale prices. - that triggered a whole load of guff about how grey items arent worth less second hand even though they cost less new, and so on.

I have to admit i'm losing the will to live on this, and the bottom line for me is

if you want to buy uk stock - feel free
if you want to buy grey and pay your taxes feel free
if you want to buy smuggled grey feel feel free
if you want to buy dodgy possibly counterfeit kit of ebay dealers no one has ever heard of - feel free
if you want to buy probably stolen kit out of the back of dodgy daves datsun behind the dog and duck - feel free

its a free country and its totally your choice

however if you choose any of these routes you have to accept the consequences that come with them , whether thats the high price of uk stock , or the lack of dealer support for smuggled items (or being done for recieving when dodgy dave gets busted) .
 
big soft moose said:
however if you choose any of these routes you have to accept the consequences that come with them , whether thats the high price of uk stock , or the lack of dealer support for smuggled items (or being done for recieving when dodgy dave gets busted) .
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Pete, you forgot about the lack of manufacturers warranty :D;)


big soft moose said:
I have to admit i'm losing the will to live on this.....
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Aye, me too. :wacky:
 
This thread is a long read and shows a degree of misunderstanding on how things are, so if I can be so bold as to try to pull it together?

1) The majority of grey camera gear will have been made on the same line as UK supplied gear.

2) Your warranty will depend on who supplies the kit you've bought.

3) UK legislation provides that your contract is with the retailer and they are responsible for repairs. This COULD mean sending the kit back to Hong Kong or wherever at whatever the cost is.

4) The UK version of a big company such as Canon or Nikon is a separate legal entity from the manufacturer, so the "original profit" argument is irrelevant.

5) If you are one of the many who enjoys problem-free kit then grey gear will seem great and you'll struggle to understand what the fuss is about.

6) The big companies really don't help themselves by restricting warranties to genuinely purchased UK gear. Fuji in particular have encouraged additional purchases by cashback deals on lenses, but as soon as the cashback is registered then the warranty is no longer transferable. Given the choice of a new (but secondhand) UK lens @ £450 with no transferable warranty versus a Digital Rev one with a warranty at the same price which would you choose?

7) The tax issue is one that I intend to just avoid. Having seen forum posts here and elsewhere on the net, it's clear to me that many people consider tax evasion to be wholly justifiable and that's just the way some people are.
 
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Bailed from this thread a while back as I felt it was derailed / of topic and going around in circles.

big soft moose said:
yep it sidetracked into the tedious discussion of grey because i said that it was pointles buying a grey item instead of a split kit, if you were worried about resale prices. - that triggered a whole load of guff about how grey items arent worth less second hand even though they cost less new, and so on.
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Just posting this as it was the most appropriate thread given recent discussion.

I was a with a photography group yesterday, this cropped up so I posed the question about how people perceive 'UK' v 'Grey'.

Results were:

Q: Would you buy new UK compared to new Grey if there were warranty issues with Grey.
A: Almost all said Yes

Q: Would you pay more for a used UK camera if there was some warranty remaining
A: Mainly yes but depends on how much more.

Q: Would you pay any more for a UK camera if the warranty had expired.
A: Everybody said no.

Q: If you had the choice of two cameras (out of warranty) for the same price - why would you choose one over the other ?

A:

1: Condition
2: Shutter Count
3: Example shots
4: Origin
 
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