Parakeet Cull ?

[Gremlin]

Read this yesterday and can't believe that people are planning a petition to stop it

Parakeets On Hate List

I often visit Richmond and the racket these things make is so annoying
they are spreading fast, I've even seen them in Wisley Gardens
They are not native to this country and compete with many of our already endangered wild birds
They are already being culled in other parts, so what makes these 30 birds so different ?

 

[MisterE]

Wonder what they taste like ............

 

[Headless Lois]

An article in the Fail, written by Liz Jones. Says it all, really.

 

[Cobra]

Wonder what they taste like ............

Chicken :shrug:

 

[Gremlin]

Wonder what they taste like ............

Chicken :shrug:

You'd need quite a few to make a decent meal though

 

[nilagin]

Read this yesterday and can't believe that people are planning a petition to stop it

Parakeets On Hate List

I often visit Richmond and the racket these things make is so annoying
they are spreading fast, I've even seen them in Wisley Gardens
They are not native to this country and compete with many of our already endangered wild birds
They are already being culled in other parts, so what makes these 30 birds so different ?

Competing how, are they getting ready for the olympics?
We have had a flock of parakeets in Upminster for around 10 years and they have never done any harm. I recently saw a small flock at Brands Hatch the other month and they don't appear to be causing any harm or trouble there either.
I can never understand peoples desire to eradicate a species, just because they aren't indigenous to this country.

 

[DemiLion]

Everybody is talking about the wrong type of Parakeet. It's the Monks that are being eradicated, not the Ringnecks (who are already on the vermin/pest list). I rather wish that they'd zap the Ringnecks properly at the same time.

 

[Gremlin]

Competing how, are they getting ready for the olympics?
We have had a flock of parakeets in Upminster for around 10 years and they have never done any harm. I recently saw a small flock at Brands Hatch the other month and they don't appear to be causing any harm or trouble there either.
I can never understand peoples desire to eradicate a species, just because they aren't indigenous to this country.

So you are saying that allowing any animal that escapes and breeds to take over is ok, even the mink etc and look at what rabbits and cane toads are doing in Australia, do you reaslly want that to happen here

Quote fron online research

A spokesman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said: 'Control work is being carried out as part of a Defra initiative to counter the potential threat monk parakeets pose to critical national infrastructure, crops and native British wildlife.
'This invasive species has caused significant damage in other countries through nesting and feeding activity and we are taking action now to prevent this happening in the UK.'
But a spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds told the Daily Telegraph: 'They (parakeets) have the potential to expand rapidly and could pose a threat to agriculture and public safety because of the nests causing structural problems to the electricity supply
Unlike its relative the ring-necked parakeet, which is the UK's only naturalised parrot, the doomed species builds huge communal nests.
Identified by its green upperparts, yellowish belly, pale grey face and breast and pale bill, the monk parakeets also make raucous calls
In America, nests built on electricity utility structures have been known to cause power cuts, particularly when they become wet from rain.
Extensive damage to crops has also been reported in both North and South America.

Everybody is talking about the wrong type of Parakeet. It's the Monks that are being eradicated, not the Ringnecks (who are already on the vermin/pest list). I rather wish that they'd zap the Ringnecks properly at the same time.

Yep agree with you there but seems they aren't so damaging, and I never mentioned a breed

 

[WillNicholls]

There are so many people in London that it will upset someone. I was born there and still visit my dad there, and whenever you mention culling or anything you can see that it upsets a lot of people. They don't like the idea of conservation or controlling numbers.

 

[nilagin]

I think they nood to do something about pigeons not parakeets. The stupid things around here make a mess everywhere, cause unneccesary damage to cars because they sit camouflaged in the road and really are vermin.
How are parakeets taking over and from what? I'd be more concerned about the population explosion of rooks and magpies we have had over recent years. As rooks and magpies will kill other birds etc. that's more than enough "natural culling" to keep numbers in check.
Cats aren't indigenous to this country, yet we have tame and wild ones. I suppose we ought to go around killing them too.

 

[norters]

So wipe out something that wasn't born here? That sounds familiar...

 

[whiteflyer]

Cats aren't indigenous to this country, yet we have tame and wild ones. I suppose we ought to go around killing them too.

If I catch the ones that keep coming in my garden I will

 

[dunganick]

I think they nood to do something about pigeons not parakeets. The stupid things around here make a mess everywhere, cause unneccesary damage to cars because they sit camouflaged in the road and really are vermin.
How are parakeets taking over and from what? I'd be more concerned about the population explosion of rooks and magpies we have had over recent years. As rooks and magpies will kill other birds etc. that's more than enough "natural culling" to keep numbers in check.
Cats aren't indigenous to this country, yet we have tame and wild ones. I suppose we ought to go around killing them too.

If you think that pigeons are bad for going on your car you haven't seen anything yet. I live near Brands Hatch and went to Uni in Chislehurst (Nr Bromley) both areas have only seen parakeets in the last 2 years, however the populations are already significant. At Uni they used to sit in the trees above where we had to park and basically just spend all day using your car as target practice. I swear they must eat curry or polyfiller or something as well because it sticks like nothing else and causes lots of damage in no time.

The catch is that they are a very well evolved bird for avoiding us. They usually fly too high to shoot on the wing and they tend to roost in parks. Where they can't really be shot safely by the keepers. They have just been added to the General License meaning (in short) that they can be killed without a license to do so. But its too little too late. They are established and here to stay.

However they don't as far as i am aware carry any disease thats harmful to native species and besides poor toilet habits and being very vocal they don't do much harm.

I would also say i've not noticed a particular rise in the corvid population in the last 5 or 10 years. Some land i manage has seen a rise and some has seen a fall. This is more due to the changing landscape than anything i would say. :shrug:

 

[Willid1]

A picture of the said (now probably dead) birds in my back garden.

The flock used to number 20-30, it wasn't uncommon to see a dozen or more at once, once saw 10 queuing up on our back garden feeder.

There seem to be 2 individuals that have so far escaped the best efforts of the DEFRA nocturnal and tree climbing operatives.

Interestingly there has been a recent photography angle on this, police threatening a householder for taking photographs of the DEFRA operatives in a neighbours garden!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018046/Big-Brother-police-warn-bird-lover-You-sued-filming-parakeet-cull---dont-photos-newspaper.html?ITO=1490

Mmmmm

David

 

[nilagin]

If you think that pigeons are bad for going on your car you haven't seen anything yet. I live near Brands Hatch and went to Uni in Chislehurst (Nr Bromley) both areas have only seen parakeets in the last 2 years, however the populations are already significant. At Uni they used to sit in the trees above where we had to park and basically just spend all day using your car as target practice. I swear they must eat curry or polyfiller or something as well because it sticks like nothing else and causes lots of damage in no time.

The catch is that they are a very well evolved bird for avoiding us. They usually fly too high to shoot on the wing and they tend to roost in parks. Where they can't really be shot safely by the keepers. They have just been added to the General License meaning (in short) that they can be killed without a license to do so. But its too little too late. They are established and here to stay.

However they don't as far as i am aware carry any disease thats harmful to native species and besides poor toilet habits and being very vocal they don't do much harm.

I would also say i've not noticed a particular rise in the corvid population in the last 5 or 10 years. Some land i manage has seen a rise and some has seen a fall. This is more due to the changing landscape than anything i would say. :shrug:

I saw the parakeets for the first time at Brands this year. I'm not so worried about birds going to the toilet on the car as I use a good qualit yway to protect the paintwork, it's the pidgeons that si tin th eroad then fly into the car that concerns me more, they can break grills light lenses etc, plus I hit the carcass of a pidgeon which had ricochetted off another car, every nook and cranny on the front of my car was full of feathers, small bones and blood, even after a good jet wash there was still signs of it that couldn't be got rid of short of disassembling the car.

The lanscape hasn't changed around here, but where as once I'd see perhaps one magpie every couple of days or even once a week, I reckon I see 4-5 minimum on every journey to work (6 miles). As for rooks or crows, it used to be even less sightings now I see 2 or 3 every work journey aside from other journeys.

 

[Catdaddy]

...I swear they must eat curry or polyfiller or something as well...

Polly Filler...?

 

[dunganick]

I saw the parakeets for the first time at Brands this year. I'm not so worried about birds going to the toilet on the car as I use a good qualit yway to protect the paintwork, it's the pidgeons that si tin th eroad then fly into the car that concerns me more, they can break grills light lenses etc, plus I hit the carcass of a pidgeon which had ricochetted off another car, every nook and cranny on the front of my car was full of feathers, small bones and blood, even after a good jet wash there was still signs of it that couldn't be got rid of short of disassembling the car.

The lanscape hasn't changed around here, but where as once I'd see perhaps one magpie every couple of days or even once a week, I reckon I see 4-5 minimum on every journey to work (6 miles). As for rooks or crows, it used to be even less sightings now I see 2 or 3 every work journey aside from other journeys.

If your seeing 2 or 3 i doubt your seeing Rooks. More likely crows. But also with rooks/crows/jackdaws you will tend to see them feed in totally different places day to day. Whereas Magpies tend to be much more territorial so easier to judge a fixed population than rooks. I would actually argue i've seen the Rook/crow population if anything fall. Take the large rookery at Brands Hatch, its not anywhere near as obviously active. So unless Brands Hatch have been controlling numbers they clearly have decided to move on. Maybe it was Superleague... or maybe they were huge WTCC fans and have gone North!

I promise you the landscape changes everywhere every year, its the crops that is fetching a good price, and farmers choose to plant. Farmers scrubbing orchards etc... Small changes but they really effect the movements/population placements.

Personally i don't mind wood pigeons, i've not hit many in the car and they are certainly softer than badgers, foxes, rabbits or deer. They are very clean birds, taste excellent and great sport for us shooters. Shame the farmers hate them as very few animals can match their destructiveness to crops.

 

[nilagin]

If your seeing 2 or 3 i doubt your seeing Rooks. More likely crows. But also with rooks/crows/jackdaws you will tend to see them feed in totally different places day to day. Whereas Magpies tend to be much more territorial so easier to judge a fixed population than rooks. I would actually argue i've seen the Rook/crow population if anything fall. Take the large rookery at Brands Hatch, its not anywhere near as obviously active. So unless Brands Hatch have been controlling numbers they clearly have decided to move on. Maybe it was Superleague... or maybe they were huge WTCC fans and have gone North!

Perhaps they've moved only as far north as Upminster. Definitely too big for crows.

 

[Cobra]

Cats aren't indigenous to this country, yet we have tame and wild ones. I suppose we ought to go around killing them too.

Feral cats can be destroyed
along with other great favourites of the non indigenous type :-
Grey squirrels
Mink
Rabbit (thanks Romans)
glis glis (thanks Romans & Baron Rothschild)
Coypu (yes they do still exist
Muntjac (thanks Duke of Bedford)
All destructive to the environment and the native species they compeate with

 

[boyfalldown]

Cats aren't indigenous to this country, yet we have tame and wild ones. I suppose we ought to go around killing them too.

I thought wild cats are indigenous to the uk : shrug:

 

[MartynK]

I thought wild cats are indigenous to the uk : shrug:

Scottish wildcats (not wild cats) are indigenous to the UK, but wild cats are usually just domestic animals gone feral. Unfortunately they can interbreed with true wildcats, and their progeny is fertile, so there are a lot of hybrids now. No-one really knows how many pure wildcats are left.

 

[Rough Edges]

The Parakeets are all along the Thames Valley from London to Oxford and beyond. A study a couple of years ago found that their nesting habbits which had been peviously thought to interfere with tree hole nesting species. The newer study found that this was not the case, so I have no problem with them.

If we are going to get rid of no-native species, what is being done about the awful grey squirrel?

 

[MartynK]

The Parakeets are all along the Thames Valley from London to Oxford and beyond. A study a couple of years ago found that their nesting habbits which had been peviously thought to interfere with tree hole nesting species. The newer study found that this was not the case, so I have no problem with them.

If we are going to get rid of no-native species, what is being done about the awful grey squirrel?

Greys are only being demonised because of the impact they're having on the red populations, which is hardly their fault. I do agree with a cull, but they're quite cute, and there's nothing awful about them. They're just squirrels.

 

[specialman]

Never mind the parakeets, get rid of bleedin' otters and cormorants - sodding things are doing more damage to UK fish stocks than anything

 

[Rough Edges]

Greys are only being demonised because of the impact they're having on the red populations, which is hardly their fault. I do agree with a cull, but they're quite cute, and there's nothing awful about them. They're just squirrels.

Sorry, I wasn't that clear in my point.. They are an alien invader. So if alien invaders should be culled then pretty much all invader should be... As the Op said they shouldn't be here....

 

[Garry Edwards]

Greys are only being demonised because of the impact they're having on the red populations, which is hardly their fault. I do agree with a cull, but they're quite cute, and there's nothing awful about them. They're just squirrels.

I think you're right, they're demonised because they carry squirrel pox, which kills reds - but in fact they're a real menace and do untold damage.

Our problem with them is that they chew threw thick, strong plastic food containers, always at the bottom of the container, and all the horse or chicken or whatever food ends up on the floor. We had one once that chewed into a new tank of red diesel and just under 1000 litres was lost...

They may look cute but really they're just rats with fluffy tails.

 

[WillNicholls]

The grey squirrel cull argument is a long and strenuous one. The further north you go the more people believe in it.

I have yet meet someone who has spent weeks with reds and said that greys are cute. We have to undo our mistake I'm afraid. It's a harsh reality.

I am part of red squirrel conservation and last month alone I killed 65 greys in only two woods. This is just a mile from where we feed our red squirrels and we monitor them with cameras so that whenever a grey does turn up we can trap it and remove it from the area. It has worked for a while now and we still have them.

Those who say the cull isn't working are wrong I think. We have cleared a huge wood of many greys using 6 traps and catch nothing now. It will not be long until the reds move back in and then we can expand our buffer around them and install more cameras to protect that population too.

I don't enjoy killing greys, I would be heartless if I did. But when you see for yourself the terrible disease that is squirrelpox it is hard to deny the fact that the reds deserve protection. There are options being developed, such as a grey squirrel contraceptive which will dramatically lower the population. These are much more ethical ways, but until they are in use we have to hold out this way.

 

[boyfalldown]

Never mind the parakeets, get rid of bleedin' otters and cormorants - sodding things are doing more damage to UK fish stocks than anything

Cormorants I sort of agree with ( but if fishing lakes hadnt been kept at such unnaturally high stock levels you'd have no problem)

Otters though, really? Ignoring all the conservation efforts to improve the population, and that a healthy population is both evidence of a healthy river system ( surely that's good for fishermen?) and there's evidence they keep mink out if that was even suggested sport fishing would probably never recover from the damage it would cause to it's image

 

[The23rdman]

Cormorants I sort of agree with ( but if fishing lakes hadnt been kept at such unnaturally high stock levels you'd have no problem)

Otters though, really? Ignoring all the conservation efforts to improve the population, and that a healthy population is both evidence of a healthy river system ( surely that's good for fishermen?) and there's evidence they keep mink out if that was even suggested sport fishing would probably never recover from the damage it would cause to it's image

Otters have been reintroduced to rivers without a sustainable population of food for them thanks to cormorants, pollution and crayfish. This has led them to hunt on still waters where they catch enourmous carp, take a few bites and leave for dead. These fish cost thousands of pounds to replace and some may be older than you.

It's a case of reintroduction as political tool rather than sustainability.

 

[dunganick]

If we are going to get rid of no-native species, what is being done about the awful grey squirrel?

There was a cull on them many years ago. Where you kept the tails and when you presented the tails you were given x amount per tail. (this is well before my time)

But it was when the greys were well established and too little too late.

If we do the same with parakeets then with the speed i have seen their populations grow, i suspect they will be everywhere in large numbers in 5-10 years.

However i am not aware of any risk they cause to native species so I'm not that bothered myself.

 

[boyfalldown]

Otters have been reintroduced to rivers without a sustainable population of food for them thanks to cormorants, pollution and crayfish. This has led them to hunt on still waters where they catch enourmous carp, take a few bites and leave for dead. These fish cost thousands of pounds to replace and some may be older than you.

It's a case of reintroduction as political tool rather than sustainability.

thats highly debatable. As of course is the wisdom of stocking a lake with slow moving (normally non native) fish species then feeding them high protein food so they develop massive bellies and of course they are easier to take. And doing it next to an otter river as well :nuts:.

As I said if fisherman managed to fish just on natural stock levels then they'd be few of the problems with cormorants and should they even suggest culling otters then they'd do their reputation (which, lets be honest, is recovering, but at times over the last 20 year has been pretty poor) irreparable damage.

 

[nilagin]

Feral cats can be destroyed
along with other great favourites of the non indigenous type :-
Grey squirrels
Mink
Rabbit (thanks Romans)
glis glis (thanks Romans & Baron Rothschild)
Coypu (yes they do still exist
Muntjac (thanks Duke of Bedford)
All destructive to the environment and the native species they compeate with

So are humans, probably more so, yet people become quite concerned when someone goes on "culling" spree of the human population.

 

[DemiLion]

There was a cull on them many years ago. Where you kept the tails and when you presented the tails you were given x amount per tail. (this is well before my time)

I'd certainly hope so. The Preservation of Grain Act(1532) was pulled in about 1760 or so!

 

[DemiLion]

Otters have been reintroduced to rivers without a sustainable population of food for them thanks to cormorants, pollution and crayfish. This has led them to hunt on still waters where they catch enourmous carp, take a few bites and leave for dead. These fish cost thousands of pounds to replace and some may be older than you.

It's a case of reintroduction as political tool rather than sustainability.

The last otter reintroduction was 1999 and the vast majority have recolonised naturally. Otters scoff crayfish in abundance hence the similar expansion paths of both them and signals'.

I'm afraid that I've got little sympathy for large carp fishing, but I would have thought that you'd be more concerned about Eastern Europeans than otters?

 

[MartynK]

I'd certainly hope so. The Preservation of Grain Act(1532) was pulled in about 1760 or so!

Registered shooting clubs were issued with free cartridges during WW2 to try to curtail the increasing population of greys, and a bounty was introduced in 1953. It was one shilling/tail, increasing to two shillings/tail in 1956, and the scheme was abandoned in 1958. The estimated cull was around 1.5 million, but I don't know if this was accurate. It was scrapped because it didn't seem to be having any effect at the time.

 

[Gremlin]

Wonder how those that don't want us to cull non indigenous species feel about the proposed reintorduction of native species hunted to extinction such as wolves and bears ?
Bet you wouldn't like those on your back yard.
All animals have a place in the heirachy of things and nature sets a balance
if we allow that balance to be interfered with then it causes problems
Anyone caring to reseach it just look at the reintroduction of wolves into yellowstone, not a popular decisions but is has been a great success not only in controlling the elk population but also in improving the whole environment of the park and bringing back othe species that used to inhabit it.
You need natural predators to control things and I'm not sure we have any for the parakeets

 

[Cobra]

I think you're right, they're demonised because they carry squirrel pox, which kills reds - but in fact they're a real menace and do untold damage.

Our problem with them is that they chew threw thick, strong plastic food containers, always at the bottom of the container, and all the horse or chicken or whatever food ends up on the floor. We had one once that chewed into a new tank of red diesel and just under 1000 litres was lost...

They may look cute but really they're just rats with fluffy tails.

And of course until they take up residence in your roof space to breed and or hibernate (OK Torpor then)
Destroying the wiring tearing up the insulation and bouncing around at stupid
O'clock while you are trying to sleep
If these and other pests didn't worry people that much, me and hundreds of other pesties
would be out of a job

So are humans, probably more so, yet people become quite concerned when someone goes on "culling" spree of the human population.

Thats because we have laws about culling all species on this planet

 

[DemiLion]

Wonder how those that don't want us to cull non indigenous species feel about the proposed reintorduction of native species hunted to extinction such as wolves and bears ?
Bet you wouldn't like those on your back yard.
All animals have a place in the heirachy of things and nature sets a balance
if we allow that balance to be interfered with then it causes problems
Anyone caring to reseach it just look at the reintroduction of wolves into yellowstone, not a popular decisions but is has been a great success not only in controlling the elk population but also in improving the whole environment of the park and bringing back othe species that used to inhabit it.
You need natural predators to contol things and I'm not sure we have any for the parakeets

I have to say that I'm no great fan of the beaver reintroduction.

 

[MartynK]

I have to say that I'm no great fan of the beaver reintroduction.

Wild boar seem to have re-established themselves without any help. The jury's still out on beavers as far as I'm concerned but, yes, the law of unintended consequences could come into play. Wolves and bears? I find that idea rather attractive but I can't see it happening outside a controlled environment, which isn't quite the same thing.

Going back to squirrels for a moment. Red squirrel populations have fluctuated quite a bit in the past, and they were nearly extinct in Scotland by the C18th. Deforestation was probably the main cause, but disease may have been a factor too. The populations recovered in the C19th when many of the coniferous forests were replanted, and animals were imported from Scandinavia, Europe and, possibly, England. By the end of the C19th, reds were considered a pest in many areas and were culled. The Highland Squirrel Club reckoned they killed about 80,000 between 1903 -1933. The populations were shrinking by then, but it's not clear whether culling had any real impact or if this was caused by disease and other factors. There is some evidence of a squirrelpox type of virus, but the greys probably didn't play any role in this because they hadn't spread far enough to have an impact at this point.

Does it really matter if reds become extinct in the UK? Emotionally, yes; practically, not really. Most of the population is found in Scotland, and is descended from imported animals anyway. They're not rare or threatened elsewhere in Europe and breeding stock could be imported again.

 

[Cobra]

Does it really matter if reds become extinct in the UK? Emotionally, yes; practically, not really. Most of the population is found in Scotland, and is descended from imported animals anyway. They're not rare or threatened elsewhere in Europe and breeding stock could be imported again.

You raise some very valid points and present a good argument
But taking this to its furthest conclusion do we want to end up
with a wild population of non-indigenous species?

If this was the rain Forrest think of the out cry.

And as an aside the core stock of the re-introduced Red kites are
Spanish origin, in some areas, they have been so successful that there are whispers
of a Shhhhh cull

Within a couple of years of their re-introduction, around the Bledlow ridge area,
the people that were involved already admitted that they had over done it, as they never expected them to be quite so successful.