Panic Petrol Buying

[ding76uk]

It isn't always as simple as "just getting another job" and regardless it still doesn't change the fact that some jobs are **** poorly paid whereas others are ridiculously overpaid. It comes down somewhat to opinion I suppose but to simply say it's a case of "put up or shut up" is ignoring altogether the issue that certain lines of work are exploitative towards employees.

I totally agree. But people are in this race to the bottom, where people are very quick to say how much worse they have it. I have it bad, so should you. If you are the fed up with your conditions, retrain and better yourself. People are quick to say how easy a well paid job is, but not so keen to train up and get that "easy" job.

A friend who works as a police officer arrested someone the other week, who said, "I do have a respect for what you do, but those in the army are less well paid, your pay should be less than them, your being paid too much". He replied "Maybe it is not that I am paid too much, but that they are being paid too little."

Pretty much sums it up. There is an attitude in society at the moment that I really don't care for.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I just think that whoever it is, the tanker drivers, teachers, royal mail, nhs staff or the underground decide to strike at least one of that group needs to be made an example of. Tv cameras, reporters everything documenting how the strikers are standing there in awe as their replacements walk right passed them and get told. "don't like your job, then **** off, the job centre is over there." It really will make them think before striking again, especially as there are potentially millions of people all lined up to take on their jobs within 5 minutes of them going on strike. The fact of the matter is a lot of people have much poorly paid jobs with a high risk factor and may not have the most up to date regulations, but they just get on with it or get out.

You're obviously too young to remember the miners strike. That aside, if you take away the right to industrial action then we end up back where we were in the 19th/early 20th century and whether you feel inconvenienced by potential strike action the right for aggrieved parties to withhold their labour needs to be maintained if that is to be avoided.

 

[ding76uk]

you don't honestly think that there aren't qualified people with HGV licences and other driving licences on the dole do you? Of course not everyone who is qualified to do a job must already have work.

No, but I believe in the power of protest, which you clearly do not. Why not get a job in China, they are going massive, plenty of mining jobs keep coming up apparently.

 

[gman]

Not true, i have a morgage and food bills also. Military accomidation is NOT good if you want a decet home life. Small houses and with the minimum supplied. Any how why do tanker drivers deserve to be paid £40k a year and i only get £20k? World dosent make sence

Isn't that your choice to live off base? You could live on base for 10 years, save a fortune, see the world, shoot some nasties and then by the time you move off base you've got a fat bank account and 10 years of pay increments

 

[gman]

A friend who works as a police officer arrested someone the other week, who said, "I do have a respect for what you do, but those in the army are less well paid, your pay should be less than them, your being paid too much". He replied "Maybe it is not that I am paid too much, but that they are being paid too little."

I don't really believe this story! lol

 

[ding76uk]

I don't really believe this story! lol

Care to explain yourself?

 

[archamedes]

You're obviously too young to remember the miners strike. That aside, if you take away the right to industrial action then we end up back where we were in the 19th/early 20th century and whether you feel inconvenienced by potential strike action the right for aggrieved parties to withhold their labour needs to be maintained if that is to be avoided.

I was only a baby back then so I only know about what I have heard and how it always gets brought up when someone goes on strike.

But with the panic buying wasn't the british known to have been champs back in the 40s when they had to ration, no whining or complaining we just got on with it... What happened to us

 

[gman]

Not really, it's obvious.

 

[ding76uk]

Not really, it's obvious.

Fine carry on.

 

[gman]

Thank you, I will

 

[leftcurl]

well that takes the biscuit. Cars queuing all day outside the petrol station behind my showroom.. so i had a wander round there to get a can of coke... roads blocked in all directions and everything. This woman pitches up to the till and pays £6 for the fuel she's just put in.... 'thought i'd better top up' :bang:

 

[bindex]

You're obviously too young to remember the miners strike. That aside, if you take away the right to industrial action then we end up back where we were in the 19th/early 20th century and whether you feel inconvenienced by potential strike action the right for aggrieved parties to withhold their labour needs to be maintained if that is to be avoided.

No-one in their right mind goes on strike just for fun, it's always a last resort. But the right to do so must be maintained, as must the right to protest too or we really are in danger of slipping back into the dreadful conditions of the past.

But in this instance no strike date is set, and any panic buying has been largely instigated by the government making stupid comments.

 

[big soft moose]

Yet more Union bashing by the Tories by the back door, damn those tanker drivers putting lives at risk. Lets give some squadie 4 hours training and he can be a hazardous content HGV driver. There is a reason why these drivers are paid 45k, same reason train a tube drivers are paid a decent wage.
How many people would not be ****ed off with a 9k pay cut and drastic changes to their T&C?

actually no, tube train drivers are paid a load because they are required to live in/near london - tanker drivers are paid a shedload because they keep threatening to go on strike , and while i can see why they might not like a wage reduction the fact remains they are still paid more than twice what a soilder gets for doing a much more hazardous job.

Everyone should have the right to withhold their labour,

absolutely as i said earlier if they don't like the job they can always quit and try and find another job - the fact that there arent any jobs that someone with their skills can do that pay anywhere near the same should tell them something about the lack of realism in teir moaning over pay.

and we all have feet or the great public transport that every government has invested heavily in over the last 4 decades.....

yeah , erm which planet are you living on - The one bus a day (apart from wednesdays) that goes to with two miles of my work place won't be terribly helpful. Also once at work we need the vans to get round all our sites as its not teribly practical to take three strimmers on the bus even if there was a bus that goes whee we need which the isnt (we also need tourists to visit our sites and people to come and stay in the local area which again they can't do without fuel)

and even for those with office based jobs who can theoretically commute by train will have to deal with the stupidly high prices which are a consequence of rail privitisation and lack of investment by every government for the last four decades

 

[trencheel303]

No-one in their right mind goes on strike just for fun, it's always a last resort. But the right to do so must be maintained, as must the right to protest too or we really are in danger of slipping back into the dreadful conditions of the past.

But in this instance no strike date is set, and any panic buying has been largely instigated by the government making stupid comments.

I'm a pretty liberal person, but I'm not quite sure where I stand on strike action. If tanker drivers were being paid the NMW then maybe I'd be more forgiving, but they (generally) take home a lot of money, by any standard!

I know for a fact that if I went on strike tomorrow my employer would sack me on the spot, and I'd have no union to back me up.

There is absolutely no feeling of team spirit in our country these days - strike is a selfish action because a group of INDIVIDUALS think they're not being paid enough.

 

[TCR4x4]

I dont know where this £45k a year has come from, but I can assure you, all the tanker drivers I know earn half that. (I work in the industry)

Im an ADR (hazardous goods including flamable liquids and volitile solids) qualified HGV driver, and only in my dreams could I earn that much.
Just another load of gob***** spouted from the daily mail no doubt.

I dont agree with anyone striking when it causes everyday people hassle, but if they must, at least let the truth be known.

 

[trencheel303]

I dont agree with anyone striking when it causes everyday people hassle, but if they must, at least let the truth be known.

Thats what strike is all about though. It's a collection of individuals teaming up to cause everyone else a PITA so that their own wages can go up.

It's tantamount to everyone in an IT company refusing to fix their clients' computers (and thus causing a lot more people problems) because of their own needs/wants. It's essentially mass blackmail.

See: selfishness.

 

[big soft moose]

Isn't that your choice to live off base? You could live on base for 10 years, save a fortune, see the world, shoot some nasties and then by the time you move off base you've got a fat bank account and 10 years of pay increments

seriously , if you saw the state of a lot of military housing you wouldn't be saying that. Which is particulary true for those with wives and families - life in the block isnt too bad for young single soilders but its clearly not going to appeal to a career proffesional (who are the people the army needs to hold on to to function)

And while its true that if you don't like it you can always give civvie street a try, a lot of soilders are in to serve their country - something which can't be said of tanker drivers who are only in it for the employment. (soilders also arent allowed to strike which is why they can't protest housing conditins which would not pass a civilian H&S inspection)

You are also displaying a very idealised view of army life , its more long periods of mind numbing tedium in which the only world you see is one base or the other which all look a like, interspersed with combat/peacekeeping tours where the 'interesting' scenery is somewhat marred by the hordes of millitant tallitubbies (or whatever) trying to maim or kill you.

 

[big soft moose]

I dont know where this £45k a year has come from, but I can assure you, all the tanker drivers I know earn half that. (I work in the industry)

Im an ADR (hazardous goods including flamable liquids and volitile solids) qualified HGV driver, and only in my dreams could I earn that much.
Just another load of gob***** spouted from the daily mail no doubt.

I dont agree with anyone striking when it causes everyday people hassle, but if they must, at least let the truth be known.

45K is the average figure and the source is your good mate len in the guardian, sure you don't think your fearless leader is a gob***** (although if you do i'd be in full agreement) - obviously as its an average some earn more and some earn less

 

[gramps]

Away from army life .... here in Bristol several bus routes have been cancelled, or at least shortened ... the queues of cars waiting to get into several petrol stations are blocking roundabouts, making it impossible for buses to get through!

 

[big soft moose]

Thats what strike is all about though. It's a collection of individuals teaming up to cause everyone else a PITA so that their own wages can go up.

It's tantamount to everyone in an IT company refusing to fix their clients' computers (and thus causing a lot more people problems) because of their own needs/wants. It's essentially mass blackmail.

See: selfishness.

the difference being that if an IT company tried that they'd go bust because all their clients would go elsewhere.

And frankly all this 'everyone has a right to withhold their labour' is so much guff - forces dont, police don't, the self employed can't, and anyone who's on a low or even average wage can't afford to (before anyone says miners strike , they were subsidised by collections etc organised by the NUM and socialist worker etc)

Frankly anyone who can afford to think about striking for more than a few days isnt badly paid enough to justify it (and for all that people were saying that its not about pay even len mcluskey has said it is)

If it goes ahead i'd suggest that they fire the 'king lot of them, and give some of the unemployed HGV holders (including lots of ex forces) the chance to earn what is still a very good wage

 

[gman]

I've nothing against the army at all, I'm simply arguing that it's all about choice. You go into the army knowing the pay, knowing the dangers etc. If you decide to have a family at a young age whilst in the army then that is your choice. You can, however, choose not to be skint by staying on base etc which people in the private sector on a similar wage cannot do.

If all these truckers do in fact get paid £45K then it does seem an awful lot to be honest because they also know the risk before taking on the job lol

 

[antihero]

I'm a pretty liberal person, but I'm not quite sure where I stand on strike action. If tanker drivers were being paid the NMW then maybe I'd be more forgiving, but they (generally) take home a lot of money, by any standard!

I know for a fact that if I went on strike tomorrow my employer would sack me on the spot, and I'd have no union to back me up.

There is absolutely no feeling of team spirit in our country these days - strike is a selfish action because a group of INDIVIDUALS think they're not being paid enough.

Thats what strike is all about though. It's a collection of individuals teaming up to cause everyone else a PITA so that their own wages can go up.

It's tantamount to everyone in an IT company refusing to fix their clients' computers (and thus causing a lot more people problems) because of their own needs/wants. It's essentially mass blackmail.

See: selfishness.

Praise the lord! Thats exactly what I was trying to get at in the first place....Selfishness.

For example...IF the tanker drivers went on strike (doesn't matter why), and ended getting their demands met, no matter who it disrupts, they will be happy. IF one of those very same strikers was sat at the airport in 4 months time with his family waiting to fly to Magaluf for a much needed holiday only to find the baggage handlers had gone on strike and they wouldn't be going anywhere, would they smile and congratulate the baggage handlers for fighting their corner, in an act of defiant solidarity? Doubt it.

 

[Chris Primadona]

It's starting to get a bit crazy here too (Just outside Glasgow). I drove past two stations, one has ran out of fuel and the other had about 40 cars in a queue waiting on the road to get in to fill up.

 

[gman]

If the tanker drivers all went on strike in order to get the Government to reduce the insane amount of duty on fuel then that's a strike worth doing!

 

[big soft moose]

I've nothing against the army at all, I'm simply arguing that it's all about choice. You go into the army knowing the pay, knowing the dangers etc. If you decide to have a family at a young age whilst in the army then that is your choice. You can, however, choose not to be skint by staying on base etc which people in the private sector on a similar wage cannot do.

If all these truckers do in fact get paid £45K then it does seem an awful lot to be honest because they also know the risk before taking on the job lol

I don't thnk anyone disputes that - the issue with regard to forces has only come up as an illustration that even if we accept that driving a tanker is hazardous (which death/injury statistics doesn't support) some people do a much more hazardous job for less pay

stepping away from military comparrisons , what does a cess lorry driver get ? (about 25k according to google) that's a much more unpleasant job - loads of similar examples

bottom line as far as i can see - no one is forced to become a tanker driver so if you don't like it, don't do it there are plenty more who'd be happy to take your place.

 

[Ruffy]

After reading some of the comments here, I guess it will be best for me to go hide when we go out on strike

 

[gramps]

I guess it will be best for me to go hide when we go out on strike

Don't say that ... you'll start them panic-buying water!

 

[Simmotino]

IF one of those very same strikers was sat at the airport in 4 months time with his family waiting to fly to Magaluf for a much needed holiday only to find the baggage handlers had gone on strike and they wouldn't be going anywhere, would they smile and congratulate the baggage handlers for fighting their corner, in an act of defiant solidarity? Doubt it.

If any of them are flying on Friday, we may find out!

 

[cambsno]

If the tanker drivers all went on strike in order to get the Government to reduce the insane amount of duty on fuel then that's a strike worth doing!

That is one strike I will support!!

 

[big soft moose]

After reading some of the comments here, I guess it will be best for me to go hide when we go out on strike

thing is i actually support the fire brigades demand for more pay, (though i'm ambilavent about whether a refusal to answer 999 calls is responsible - and theres also a question as to why fire fighters are allowed to strike if the police aren't) , but you guys are yet another example of people who do a job which is far more dangerous than driving a tanker for considerably less pay than the tanker drivers average

 

[trencheel303]

the difference being that if an IT company tried that they'd go bust because all their clients would go elsewhere.

And frankly all this 'everyone has a right to withhold their labour' is so much guff - forces dont, police don't, the self employed can't, and anyone who's on a low or even average wage can't afford to (before anyone says miners strike , they were subsidised by collections etc organised by the NUM and socialist worker etc)

Frankly anyone who can afford to think about striking for more than a few days isnt badly paid enough to justify it (and for all that people were saying that its not about pay even len mcluskey has said it is)

If it goes ahead i'd suggest that they fire the 'king lot of them, and give some of the unemployed HGV holders (including lots of ex forces) the chance to earn what is still a very good wage

QFT - far too much wibble wibble and not enough worky worky. Like I said earlier... team spirit in this country is appalling.

 

[TCR4x4]

If £45k a year is an average, then that must mean there is a large proportion on around £60k, which is quite franky rediculous.

I dont care what paper its come from, its rubbish.
I work with a major Texaco distributor and none of thier drivers come close. None of the drivers that deliver to them come close and none of the drivers I meet out and about come close.

One driver I knew got arrested and fired for spyphoning off fuel from his tanker to sell.
Not because he was greedy or a bad guy, but his wage didnt cover his living costs and he got into a very bad place.

HGV drivers, and more specifically most tanker drivers, do not earn £45k a year!

 

[big soft moose]

QFT - far too much wibble wibble and not enough worky worky. Like I said earlier... team spirit in this country is appalling.

yeah because i really feel team spirit with a bunch of people who are threatening to screw up the economy and my livelihood

if we had team spirit in the country they'd be thinking about the consequences of their actions on everyone else - if they can't think of anyone but themselves quite frankly , **** em ! let them reap what they sow

 

[trencheel303]

If £45k a year is an average, then that must mean there is a large proportion on around £60k, which is quite franky rediculous.

I dont care what paper its come from, its rubbish.
I work with a major Texaco distributor and none of thier drivers come close. None of the drivers that deliver to them come close and none of the drivers I meet out and about come close.

One driver I knew got arrested and fired for spyphoning off fuel from his tanker to sell.
Not because he was greedy or a bad guy, but his wage didnt cover his living costs and he got into a very bad place.

HGV drivers, and more specifically most tanker drivers, do not earn £45k a year!

If his wage didn't cover his living costs then he was living beyond his means.

Not trying to play devil's advocate here, just looking at things from both sides.

if we had team spirit in the country they'd be thinking about the consequences of their actions on everyone else - if they can't think of anyone but themselves quite frankly , **** em ! let them reap what they sow

That's what I was getting at.

 

[big soft moose]

If £45k a year is an average, then that must mean there is a large proportion on around £60k, which is quite franky rediculous.

I dont care what paper its come from, its rubbish.
I work with a major Texaco distributor and none of thier drivers come close. None of the drivers that deliver to them come close and none of the drivers I meet out and about come close.

One driver I knew got arrested and fired for spyphoning off fuel from his tanker to sell.
Not because he was greedy or a bad guy, but his wage didnt cover his living costs and he got into a very bad place.

HGV drivers, and more specifically most tanker drivers, do not earn £45k a year!

so why does the head of Unite think otherwise ? - its a bit worrying that the guy who's leading on the negotiations doesnt have a good feeling for what his members earn.

also what would you suggest a more realistic average wage is ? (for tanker drivers i mean , the average wage for general HGV is distinctly lower)

 

[boyfalldown]

yeah because i really feel team spirit with a bunch of people who are threatening to screw up the economy and my livelihood

its already screwed. I suspect they ain't going to screw it up further.

if we had team spirit in the country they'd be thinking about the consequences of their actions on everyone else - if they can't think of anyone but themselves quite frankly , **** em ! let them reap what they sow

true, but it also cuts both ways, maybe if people had some more understanding/empathy with others that sentiment wouldn't be needed. As far as I'm aware the industrial action isn't about pay. (Bear in mind that no one except UK government has said there will be a strike.) Nice way to turn public opinion against a group of people (again).

 

[gman]

I don't agree that firefighters should strike over pay. If pay is poor then people simply won't go for that job so they'll end up having to raise the salaries to attract employment. The downside being it doesn't have such an immediate impact.

However, firefighters striking because they aren't provided proper safety equipment to do their job or because they are being held back from saving lives due to ridiculous H&S legislation is a different story.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I was only a baby back then so I only know about what I have heard and how it always gets brought up when someone goes on strike.

But with the panic buying wasn't the british known to have been champs back in the 40s when they had to ration, no whining or complaining we just got on with it... What happened to us

We're no longer in black and white for starters, Mr Chumley-Warner

 

[big soft moose]

As far as I'm aware the industrial action isn't about pay.

they keep saying that but when you look at len mcluskey's article the only fact in amongst a whole bunch of polemic is about a supposed pay reduction

also with regard to the screw up of the economy - I can't say whether its true nationally but down here we are very dependent on tourism , and the tourist economy is suffering as a direct result of all this fuel panic

for example part of my portfoilio is a campsite - before tuesday we were fully booked for the easter weekend (a result of the nice weather), now about a third of those bookings have cancelled, and from what i hear from other campsites, B&Bs etc this is a common story - play that out across the est of the tourist infrastructure (tearooms, pubs, ice cream sellers, bucket shops, attractions etc) and you are looking at a shed load of lost income

I work for a big organisation so its only an anoyance for us, but its an outright disaster for a lot of small independent operators many of whom were already struggling to keep their heads above water in the recessive economy.

Now i dont only blame the tanker drivers as the government's handling of the situation has been 'king awful, and the fuel companies shouldnt have let it get to ths stage either - but they all need to grow up and think about the consequences of their actions rather than acting like small boys in a the school yard

 

[Spuff]

so why does the head of Unite think otherwise ? - its a bit worrying that the guy who's leading on the negotiations doesnt have a good feeling for what his members earn.

I wouldn't think for a moment that Len McClunky has any real knowledge of or interest in the tanker driver's welfare. They have simply provided him with a suitable "vehicle" to keep his profile raised and further his idealogical ambitions. Separate to this action, he has already called for industrial unrest to disrupt the Olympics.

He did much the same with the BA Cabin Crew unions in their fruitless strikes when he was trying to (successfully) manoeuvre himself into the General Secretary position. And notice how these things are no longer supposed to be about money? Nowadays it's dressed up as "members' concerns about safety, bullying or changes to working practices.

Incidentally, whilst I support the tanker driver's right to strike, less than 50% of the driver's that are members of Unite voted for strike action! It's always the vociferous, militant minority.