"Panasonic G series" Owners Thread

[Stephen L]

The only time I think I’ve experienced shutter shock - I’m still not sure if it wasn‘t user error - was on the Oly E-M1 mark 1. But if people wiser than me say it’s the camera rather than the user then it must be true. And manufacturers seemingly acknowledging it does lend some credence.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

But if people wiser than me say it’s the camera rather than the user then it must be true.

The "if" is the key here, isn't it?

And manufacturers seemingly acknowledging it does lend some credence.

Sometimes, when these hares are set running on the internatter, marketing types might be inclined to respond, even when they know the claims are so much hot air...

 

[CSB]

I experienced a lot of shutter shock on my Panasonic GX1. That was one of the reasons I upgraded to the GX80, most of my pictures are usually in the affected shutter speed range and I could see the softness in the photos. They weren't unusable, but they weren't tack sharp either. I certainly wouldn't buy an older body looking back.

 

[Stephen L]

To be honest, I’m agnostic on this and other reports. If they don’t affect me then they don’t bother me. I prefer to go by my own experiences.

 

[woof woof]

The "if" is the key here, isn't it?

Sometimes, when these hares are set running on the internatter, marketing types might be inclined to respond, even when they know the claims are so much hot air...

I know your views on this Andrew and you are pretty unique as the rest of the world including many reputable reviewers and crucially Panasonic themselves acknowledged that shutter shock is a reality and that's doubtless at least partly why Panasonic redesigned their shutter mechanism to reduce the effect and made such a big thing of telling the world how much shutter shock had been reduced by the new mechanism.

The first time I saw shutter shock was with my GX7 and the tiny 14-42mm kit lens. At first I though the lens was just a poor lens but I tried it on my G1 and saw that it was excellent so that prompted me to look into the issue. I spent a lot of time looking into this and testing lenses and trying to understand the issue and in the end I just decided that I had better things to do and switched to cameras that don't so readily exhibit the problem.

I do think it's worthwhile informing people about this issue so that they can make informed decisions. Of course no one needs to take my word that shutter shock is a real issue as gospel, they can always just google it and follow the links to the reputable reviewers and bloggers documenting it.

 

[woof woof]

To be honest, I’m agnostic on this and other reports. If they don’t affect me then they don’t bother me. I prefer to go by my own experiences.

What worries me is that it's potentially an issue waiting to hit you because if you have a camera which can induce it but you use lenses which don't exhibit it you wont see the issue and all is well but what if you buy a new lens which is susceptible to shutter shock and you then use it with the mechanical shutter in the affected speed range?

I've never seen a definitive list of susceptible lenses but if there is one that'd make life a lot easier. If there isn't such a list camera and lens combinations just become a game of Russian roulette unless you always use the electronic shutter and this is where it all fell apart for me as when shooting under flickering lighting banding can be shot ruining so that rules the electronic shutter out and if using the mechanical shutter I'd be smack in the affected shutter speed range. So that killed the GX7 and G7 dead for me as at the time I wanted to use these cameras for indoor social shooting and they were unusable for that with the lens I wanted to use. With the GX80 and GX9 it's a non issue as they have the redesigned shutter and I can use the mechanical shutter with any lens at any shutter speed and be shutter shock free.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I know your views on this Andrew and you are pretty unique as the rest of the world including many reputable reviewers and crucially Panasonic themselves acknowledged that shutter shock is a reality

Lots of people believe in miracles and flying saucers. Doesn't mean they're right...

 

[Sangoma]

I do think it's worthwhile informing people about this issue so that they can make informed decisions. Of course no one needs to take my word that shutter shock is a real issue as gospel, they can always just google it and follow the links to the reputable reviewers and bloggers documenting it.

I don't think there is any doubt it is a "real issue", so nobody needs to search to see if your word is "gospel" on its existence.
And yes there are many reputable reviewers who have mentioned it, and there are a few who say it is a major catastrophe, but there are many more who say it is there, but not such a huge issue, except under certain circumstances combined with certain combinations of settings and lenses.
It is clear that you fall among those who found it a nuisance/deal breaker, however others have not found that.
So it is worth searching to see how severs the problem really is and if it might affect the person searching.

Yes it is fair to point it out to people thinking of getting one of the affected cameras to avoid them being disappointed, but it is also fair to point out that many other people have had no problem to help them avoid missing out on a camera at an attractive price (and the shutter shock issue does not seem to affect the price compared to others of the same age and similar specs) and that would serve their needs well.

I have had well known brands of dSLRs that suffer more visibly from a similar problem, but have seen no signs of it on Panasonic yet, I may do one day with a lens I don't have yet, but I have a fair selection now, so chances are I may not see it

But I do agree it is a good idea to google it and get a balanced view

 

[tijuana taxi]

I doubt Olympus would entitle one of their menu settings "anti shock" without good reason.

 

[Stephen L]

What worries me is that it's potentially an issue waiting to hit you because if you have a camera which can induce it but you use lenses which don't exhibit it you wont see the issue and all is well but what if you buy a new lens which is susceptible to shutter shock and you then use it with the mechanical shutter in the affected speed range?

I've never seen a definitive list of susceptible lenses but if there is one that'd make life a lot easier. If there isn't such a list camera and lens combinations just become a game of Russian roulette unless you always use the electronic shutter and this is where it all fell apart for me as when shooting under flickering lighting banding can be shot ruining so that rules the electronic shutter out and if using the mechanical shutter I'd be smack in the affected shutter speed range. So that killed the GX7 and G7 dead for me as at the time I wanted to use these cameras for indoor social shooting and they were unusable for that with the lens I wanted to use. With the GX80 and GX9 it's a non issue as they have the redesigned shutter and I can use the mechanical shutter with any lens at any shutter speed and be shutter shock free.

There are a lot more potential real world issues which could hit me. C’est la vie

 

[woof woof]

Lots of people believe in miracles and flying saucers. Doesn't mean they're right...

I don't know why I'm waste my time responding to you Andrew as half the time I'm sure you're sat there in your undies chuckling away at your trolling... but I'll respond one last time for the benefit of anyone who may be reading this....

You needn't believe me or Andrew, just google the issue and make your own mind up.

 

[woof woof]

There are a lot more potential real world issues which could hit me. C’est la vie

Well yes, we could all be affected by real world issues but this is a photography forum so here I'm more concerned with having a days or even one shot that matters ruined than the situation in the middle east or covid variants or the war in the Ukraine or any other real word issues but as you say, C'est la vie and you guys are old enough and well informed enough to make your own decisions. Newbies to MFT however IMO deserve openness and honesty and enough helpful information to be able to do their own research and make their own informed decisions.

 

[woof woof]

I don't think there is any doubt it is a "real issue", so nobody needs to search to see if your word is "gospel" on its existence.
And yes there are many reputable reviewers who have mentioned it, and there are a few who say it is a major catastrophe, but there are many more who say it is there, but not such a huge issue, except under certain circumstances combined with certain combinations of settings and lenses.
It is clear that you fall among those who found it a nuisance/deal breaker, however others have not found that.
So it is worth searching to see how severs the problem really is and if it might affect the person searching.

The issue for me was indoor social shooting as with the lens I wanted to use I couldn't use the electronic shutter as that'd cause banding under artificial lighting and I couldn't use the mechanical shutter as I'd be in the affected shutter speed range. Outdoors I could use the electronic shutter.

One workaround is to avoid affected lenses but I chose to use the lenses I wanted to use on bodies that didn't cause the issue.

I do think it's something people need to be aware of and armed with knowledge they can then make their own informed buying decisions.

 

[Stephen L]

Yes, potential issues should be highlighted for people to make their own minds up. However, the same people need to have the other side of the argument also stated. Some people are so fixated by certain issues that they describe them as calamitous and that a balanced view is wrong.
For me, I’m an amateur. If I regularly experience a certain issue which bothers me, then I will dispose of said equipment. With no regrets. Professional photographers, of course, have different priorities.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Some people are so fixated by certain issues that they describe them as calamitous and that a balanced view is wrong.

It's a widespread problem on the internet and it tends to wipe out a lot of good things. One of the sadder clues that someone has such an idee fixe is that they start chucking around personal insults when challenged.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Took this BIF of a Cormorant yesterday, but the bird was way over to the lower right side of the picture, so a heavy crop and resize was done to get composition. Obviously this has degraded the overall picture, but the body and wings are still sharper to my eye than the head.
Would this be because the Pana 100-300mm was at full zoom and is softer round the edges of the lens (where the birds head was in the original) I Used F8

 

[Sangoma]

Hard to say, however sharpening artefacts are more evident around the head which makes it look less sharp.

Just a personal preference, I would have likes the bird more to the left, to me it would look like it is flying somewhere, not into a wall, if you see what I mean.

I like it though, background is good, focus etc looks on

I don't think it was the lens, just a combination of processing factors.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Hard to say, however sharpening artefacts are more evident around the head which makes it look less sharp.

Just a personal preference, I would have likes the bird more to the left, to me it would look like it is flying somewhere, not into a wall, if you see what I mean.

I like it though, background is good, focus etc looks on

I don't think it was the lens, just a combination of processing factors.

There was no room to crop it more to the left Steve, I've taken no crop from the right side. The subject was caught in the bottom right of the frame.
It took off and flew across me on the other riverbank, so I had seconds to raise the camera and try and get on it. This was the only shot worth keeping.

 

[Lost_Manc]

Too many to quote but thank you to everyone for the continued input and experiences.

The shutter shock seems definitely to be something that decides opinion. I appreciate it being brought up as a possible issues as someone with no experience of the system. I get the feeling it much like the debate with Fuji focus showing its locked on target but then on inspection it's taken the focus in front or behind the subject despite the green box. Plenty swear it doesn't happen. I digress however.

I managed to download a selection of RAWs for the GX9 using the 12-32 and the 8-18 with a variety of settings used but with a max iso of 3200 which appeared very noisy however cleaned up nicely in DxO Photolab using either Prime or DeepPrime NR. All shots unto 1600 seemed decent and with minimal noise.

@woof woof also kindly took the time to send me some shots specifically using the 20mm 1.7 as that lens is what I intend to pair with the GX9.
Alan sent some shots using even higher iso and again DxO happily 'rescued' the 6400 shot and did a good enough job with the 12800 and 25600 shots to make them 'keepers' if needed.

Overall based on what I have seen I am pretty confident in the quality of the files. I appreciate there no reason they wouldn't be good. It's just an unknown to me. (Equally plenty have issue with Fuji files or presume they are going to be terrible t work with based on internet talk).
Have had a little play with highlights and shadows and just general messing with the files and they seem flexible enough should the need present.

I'm no pixel peeper beyond situation like this but files look fine on my computer at 100% as id hope but equally still decent at 200% especially after being run through DxO so likely some room to crop without too much penalty I'd guess.

All files were RAW so I have no idea how the jpgs stack up but I only tend to shoot RAW anyway. I have no doubt they hols up just fine based on the RAWs though.

With regards to body I have pretty much decided to get the GX9 (at this point I'm pretty much certain I will give the system a try) as whilst the issue(s) may or may not ever present themselves to me with the older bodies at this point I want to have the best chance of everything being 'right'.

Having looked at the usual used sites the cost of the GX9 body doesn't seem very competitive vs new, imo of course so I'm leaning towards new in this respect now helped by the fact I have an unused gift voucher for Wex meaning I can get the kit for almost the same price as a used body.
The kit with the 12-32 makes some sense too as my wife will use the camera when I have the Fuji out plus daughter has started to show an interest in using a camera on our hikes so again could be a useful lens to have initially vs a prime. Immediate weakness being the lack of a zoom ring but as they at least are both used to using touch screens on phones to take pictures it will likely to a non issue.

Ultimately for me the intention still remains to use it with a prime though and the 20mm seems to be going for around £150 used and generally out of stock new anyway. If I do go with the kit I will probably hold off buying the 20mm initially and see what focal range I seem to be falling into with the 12-32 and then buy a prime accordingly.

Again. Thanks for all the input and I will be sure to update if/when I do make a purchase.

 

[Sangoma]

Too many to quote but thank you to everyone for the continued input and experiences.

The shutter shock seems definitely to be something that decides opinion. I appreciate it being brought up as a possible issues as someone with no experience of the system. I get the feeling it much like the debate with Fuji focus showing its locked on target but then on inspection it's taken the focus in front or behind the subject despite the green box. Plenty swear it doesn't happen. I digress however.

I managed to download a selection of RAWs for the GX9 using the 12-32 and the 8-18 with a variety of settings used but with a max iso of 3200 which appeared very noisy however cleaned up nicely in DxO Photolab using either Prime or DeepPrime NR. All shots unto 1600 seemed decent and with minimal noise.

@woof woof also kindly took the time to send me some shots specifically using the 20mm 1.7 as that lens is what I intend to pair with the GX9.
Alan sent some shots using even higher iso and again DxO happily 'rescued' the 6400 shot and did a good enough job with the 12800 and 25600 shots to make them 'keepers' if needed.

Overall based on what I have seen I am pretty confident in the quality of the files. I appreciate there no reason they wouldn't be good. It's just an unknown to me. (Equally plenty have issue with Fuji files or presume they are going to be terrible t work with based on internet talk).
Have had a little play with highlights and shadows and just general messing with the files and they seem flexible enough should the need present.

I'm no pixel peeper beyond situation like this but files look fine on my computer at 100% as id hope but equally still decent at 200% especially after being run through DxO so likely some room to crop without too much penalty I'd guess.

All files were RAW so I have no idea how the jpgs stack up but I only tend to shoot RAW anyway. I have no doubt they hols up just fine based on the RAWs though.

With regards to body I have pretty much decided to get the GX9 (at this point I'm pretty much certain I will give the system a try) as whilst the issue(s) may or may not ever present themselves to me with the older bodies at this point I want to have the best chance of everything being 'right'.

Having looked at the usual used sites the cost of the GX9 body doesn't seem very competitive vs new, imo of course so I'm leaning towards new in this respect now helped by the fact I have an unused gift voucher for Wex meaning I can get the kit for almost the same price as a used body.
The kit with the 12-32 makes some sense too as my wife will use the camera when I have the Fuji out plus daughter has started to show an interest in using a camera on our hikes so again could be a useful lens to have initially vs a prime. Immediate weakness being the lack of a zoom ring but as they at least are both used to using touch screens on phones to take pictures it will likely to a non issue.

Ultimately for me the intention still remains to use it with a prime though and the 20mm seems to be going for around £150 used and generally out of stock new anyway. If I do go with the kit I will probably hold off buying the 20mm initially and see what focal range I seem to be falling into with the 12-32 and then buy a prime accordingly.

Again. Thanks for all the input and I will be sure to update if/when I do make a purchase.

Prices go up and down, I got my GX9 with a 12-32 lens for just over £300, but now I see a GX8 is more!
And I only paid £70 for my 20mm 1.7.
I do watch and wait though, not usually in any hurry.

Good luck with what you get, and I am sure you will enjoy the GX9, they are really great.

 

[Lost_Manc]

Prices go up and down, I got my GX9 with a 12-32 lens for just over £300, but now I see a GX8 is more!
And I only paid £70 for my 20mm 1.7.
I do watch and wait though, not usually in any hurry.

Good luck with what you get, and I am sure you will enjoy the GX9, they are really great.

I guess like a lot of things right now the supply issues are driving used prices the wrong way for buyers.

I do think some re-sellers are taking the proverbial with the price on bodies though vs new(stock permitting).

I will keep an eye on things but as I have that voucher and nothing else I really need I may just send some hard earned the way of Wex.
Based on the ‘like new’ body on MPB I will only spend £30 more for the kit from Wex taking voucher into account and get an longer warranty for what that’s worth really!

And if. I did end up ultimately getting rid of the 12-32 I guess depending on what I got for it I’ll ultimately end up no worse off.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I do think some re-sellers are taking the proverbial with the price on bodies though vs new(stock permitting).

Always remember the most important rule in buying and selling: "the seller proposes but the buyer disposes".

And if. I did end up ultimately getting rid of the 12-32 I guess depending on what I got for it I’ll ultimately end up no worse off.

I'll take the 12~32 over a prime lens on most days. I have two: one on the GM5 it came with and the other on my GX7. A marvellous point and shoot lens in a super compact package - as is this noisy little character...

 

[jamin100]

Look what arrived (G9) along with the 14mm f2.5 which I’ve put on my GX80. It’s tiny !



Now I have to decide if i’m keeping the GX80

 

[woof woof]

Well done Ben.

The 14mm f2.5 is one of two lenses I've sold and rebought the other being the 20mm f1.7. I sold them as I had other options but rebought them because they're so compact.

My 14mm f2.5 has been on my GX80 for quite some time now. It is IMO an underrated lens.

 

[Stephen L]

Well done Ben.

The 14mm f2.5 is one of two lenses I've sold and rebought the other being the 20mm f1.7. I sold them as I had other options but rebought them because they're so compact.

My 14mm f2.5 has been on my GX80 for quite some time now. It is IMO an underrated lens.

I have an itch for this 14mm but have always had concerns about its iq. However, now that I have a wee GF2, currently sporting a 20mm f1.7, I may reconsider.

 

[woof woof]

I have an itch for this 14mm but have always had concerns about its iq. However, now that I have a wee GF2, currently sporting a 20mm f1.7, I may reconsider.

What concerns do you have about its IQ?

 

[Stephen L]

What concerns do you have about its IQ?

Basically, I am sceptical about a pancake lens having the physical room for decent elements. However I am tempted to buy one as a) they are so cheap, and b) as I said it could sit nicely on the GF2 as I find the 20mm focal length just a tad long for a pocket camera.

 

[seadog99]

I moved to Nikon Z FF a while ago but I can’t bring myself to part with my GX80, 14mm and 20mm. It’s my city break/weekend kit and produces some really nice images.

 

[woof woof]

Basically, I am sceptical about a pancake lens having the physical room for decent elements. However I am tempted to buy one as a) they are so cheap, and b) as I said it could sit nicely on the GF2 as I find the 20mm focal length just a tad long for a pocket camera.

Well, there's a large number of reviews out there you can check out.

I usually use mine from wide open to f4 with only occasional forays into smaller apertures and I find it difficult to really fault it. The obvious limitation is that it's f2.5 but if it was wider it wouldn't be as compact or if it was IQ would visibly suffer. The biggest gripes I've seen against it in reviews are price, vignetting and flare resistance but I have to say the latter two aren't real world issue for me and I use mine without a hood and price wise they seem to be readily available on the used market from around £80 and up. There's a MK2 but I haven't looked into the differences.

 

[d00d]

Now I have to decide if i’m keeping the GX80

Too beautiful. You must keep it.

 

[d00d]

Here's a pic of my GX80 with 25mm, a combo I love.

 

[Stephen L]

Well, there's a large number of reviews out there you can check out.

I usually use mine from wide open to f4 with only occasional forays into smaller apertures and I find it difficult to really fault it. The obvious limitation is that it's f2.5 but if it was wider it wouldn't be as compact or if it was IQ would visibly suffer. The biggest gripes I've seen against it in reviews are price, vignetting and flare resistance but I have to say the latter two aren't real world issue for me and I use mine without a hood and price wise they seem to be readily available on the used market from around £80 and up. There's a MK2 but I haven't looked into the differences.

Thanks. That sounds promising. Must admit the f2.5 aperture didn’t really excite me, but then I’ve plenty of lenses f2.8 which I use with no issues. For my type of photography vignetting can be attractive, and as for flare, just best to avoid those situations. I might well invest.

 

[Lost_Manc]

I'll take the 12~32 over a prime lens on most days. I have two: one on the GM5 it came with and the other on my GX7. A marvellous point and shoot lens in a super compact package

Good to know. The lack of a focus ring is something of a shame for me but reality may prove it to be a non issue in the end.

 

[St207]

Good to know. The lack of a focus ring is something of a shame for me but reality may prove it to be a non issue in the end.

I hope you really enjoy the GX9 when it comes, I know I‘ve very much enjoyed using mine since getting it last year. I found I preferred using the 20mm 1.7 II more than the 12-32mm zoom, but the 12-32mm is a very handy way of carrying about a standard zoom.

 

[woof woof]

Thanks. That sounds promising. Must admit the f2.5 aperture didn’t really excite me, but then I’ve plenty of lenses f2.8 which I use with no issues. For my type of photography vignetting can be attractive, and as for flare, just best to avoid those situations. I might well invest.

If you want a couple of raws to play with and pixel peep before buying let me know.

 

[Stephen L]

If you want a couple of raws to play with and pixel peep before buying let me know.

That would be good of you, thanks. Do you want to use Dropbox or just email?

 

[Crotal Bell]

6K Photo mode on the G9. I would imagine this is quite good for BIF?
Give the frame enough room for the bird to fly and save you favourite 18MP still from the sequence when it takes off?

 

[Sangoma]

6K Photo mode on the G9. I would imagine this is quite good for BIF?
Give the frame enough room for the bird to fly and save you favourite 18MP still from the sequence when it takes off?

It looks more difficult than just using high speed burst.
I am not able to select the best frame using the LCD screen on the camera, I can't see if the focus is 100% or slight motion blur, it is easier to select from individual frames on the PC
There is also a bit of a lag before it starts recording, so if waiting for a bird to take off, depending on reaction times it could be a second from take off before the first frame is recorded..

Pre-burst works well

I'm sure there are circumstances when it is very useful, but I haven't found any yet, and just prefer burst and pre-burst.

Doesn't matter what mode you use, you still have to get the bird in the frame, and I find that is where the most skill and practice is needed, I haven't got there yet, and don't do it enough to become really good at it!

 

[Adamcski]

I've used 6k photo for capturing the dog running. Think it's pretty good to be fair but I have played with it for a while now. Again, there are some YouTube videos on people using 6k for BIF that I've also watched just to learn a bit more about it.

 

[delb0y]

I tried 6k briefly first time out with the G9 last week, but the main issues were (aside from the aforementioned extracting-the-favourite-still) was that one still has to get the bird in the frame and the camera still has to nail the focus. Regarding the former, I think I still have a lot of practice to do, and regarding the latter I still have dozens of settings to experiment with. I'm thinking of trying back button focus, as the shutter button on the G9 is so sensitive that I think it's taking shots before the focus is there.

I've also found (so far) that, as Steve said, burst and pre-burst were better options, but the downside is one comes home with so many frames to sort through it's a pretty daunting affair, and (for me at least) post-processing, especially sorting through hundreds of photos, isn't an enjoyable part of photography - probably because I have old software and I have to convert the files to DNG before I can import them into Lightroom, and I'm forever having to delete stuff as my hard-drive is so full. Having two versions (RAW and DNG) of hundreds of photos is not good. One day I shall get a new PC and a newer version of LR. One day...

Anyway, last time out I went with just a small set of custom focus points and stuck with the slower burst mode. I will probably try a single point of focus next time, then the face-recognition, then back-button focus with each of those focus settings... So many options to try and work through and experiment with...

I've also found, disappointingly, that the G9 has exactly the same issue the G80 has, which is when focussing on a bird in the sky, often the bird simply vanishes from the EVF (I believe as the camera hunts for focus it will randomly focus on the sky, i.e. infinity, and thus the bird disappears). I'd read about this in a few reviews, but I'd also read other reviews and seen YT videos where folks say it doesn't happen. I might eventually stumble upon a setting where it solves the issue, but it was one of the things I was looking forward to moving beyond with the newer camera.