Panamoz

swiftflo

swiftflo

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Great thumbs up to Panamoz, ordered a new Canon camera last Wednesday and here I am at 15.00 hrs with the camera in my hands. A lot of suppliers in the UK could take a lesson from them.
 
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swiftflo said:
Great thumbs up to Panamoz, ordered a new Canon camera last Wednesday and here I am at 15.00 hrs with the camera in my hands. A lot of suppliers in the UK could take a lesson from them.
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As good as Panamoz are, to be fair most decent UK retailers could get it to you earlier than that.
 
Byker28i said:
I walked into my local camera store and had the item I wanted urgently within minutes, whilst supporting my local store, their employees. A lot of tax avoiding grey importers could learn a lot from that ;)
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Whatever rings your bell. Personally I would buy UK products if we weren't alway's being ripped off.
 
swiftflo said:
Whatever rings your bell. Personally I would buy UK products if we weren't alway's being ripped off.
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Go on then, I'm in now. Just how are we being ripped off? Are you on about the taxes that are paid on items, that pay for the services you use?

You're retired right? So you get a pension from the government, wonder where that money comes from. Been to the doctors lately, wonder where that comes from?

A camera is a luxury item. I don't have a problem with paying some tax on that so that I have access to some services I might occasionally need, or my elderly relatives use. Same as I'll try to support local businesses, because I like to see what I'm getting, feel it, try it, plus I'm supporting someones jobs.

Panamoz don't pay VAT, they aren't vat registered. They make this clear on their website.

So go on then, just how are we being ripped off? It's your morals, your decision wherer you buy from, but don't expect any sympathy with an opening post like yours when you're boasting of tax avoidance.
 
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Byker28i said:
You're retired right? So you get a pension from the government, wonder where that money comes from. Been to the doctors lately, wonder where that comes from?
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Some people are either very stupid, or very hypocritical, or possibly both.
 
Byker28i said:
Panamoz don't pay VAT, they aren't vat registered. They make this clear on their website.
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Neither does any other importer or UK based retailer, VAT is the responsibility of the purchaser not the retailer. UK retailers pass VAT on to the IR on our behalf.
 
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swiftflo said:
Whatever rings your bell. Personally I would buy UK products if we weren't alway's being ripped off.
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I walked into my local camera store in the fancy shopping centre and they had the item I wanted but at a ridiculous price. Whilst supporting my local store and their employees is fine by me I object to paying a premium to cover shiny glass frontage and over the top rates.
 
Steep said:
Neither does any other importer or UK based retailer, VAT is the responsibility of the purchaser not the retailer. UK retailers pass VAT on to the IR on our behalf.
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VAT is the responsiblility of the vendor. They collect VAT on behalf of HMRC.
 
Dryce said:
VAT is the responsiblility of the vendor. They collect VAT on behalf of HMRC.
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Again, a UK vendor collects VAT on behalf of the IR, they do not pay it (except on purchases of their own). A retailer outside of the UK has no such responsibility, that falls on the importer i.e. you.
 
Vat amounts for around 20% of the UK tax income, with another 12% coming from taxes on goods and services outside VAT
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-kingdom.pdf

I mean it's not like OP walks into a petrol station and says he's only going to pay 35p per litre for his fuel because the rest is tax and we're "alway's being ripped off". So that 30% is a deemed a rippoff but they wouldn't like 30% cut in services, in social payments etc.

We live in a country that provides services for all, which means someone has to pay for it. Through income tax is reasonably, but also through a tax on what you buy thats deemed. Yes it's more expensive here, but you get what you pay for, including supporting local businesses and jobs, which means there's more money in the local economy.

You do what you like, it's your morals and these companies exist to exploit this tax avoidance, but please don't come on here boasting about it and how UK companies that work under the rules "could take a lesson from them".
 
Byker28i said:
You do what you like, it's your morals and these companies exist to exploit this tax avoidance, but please don't come on here boasting about it and how UK companies that work under the rules "could take a lesson from them".
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Just as you are free to get on your high horse about tax avoidance the OP is free to praise the service of a company he chooses to use. I seem to remember in the past the same argument being used round the other way re the right to make comments.
 
Byker28i said:
Go on then, I'm in now. Just how are we being ripped off? Are you on about the taxes that are paid on items, that pay for the services you use?

You're retired right? So you get a pension from the government, wonder where that money comes from. Been to the doctors lately, wonder where that comes from?

A camera is a luxury item. I don't have a problem with paying some tax on that so that I have access to some services I might occasionally need, or my elderly relatives use. Same as I'll try to support local businesses, because I like to see what I'm getting, feel it, try it, plus I'm supporting someones jobs.

Panamoz don't pay VAT, they aren't vat registered. They make this clear on their website.

So go on then, just how are we being ripped off? It's your morals, your decision wherer you buy from, but don't expect any sympathy with an opening post like yours when you're boasting of tax avoidance.
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I have said my piece and expressed my own view, so thats it from my point of view, I am not getting into a long and protacted argument over this.
 
Would it be possible for those who disagree with grey imports to just keep their opinions in one place, rather than jumping on every thread and turning it into an argument? We all choose how we spend our money and as such should be allowed to discuss this with others on an ... erm discussion forum. If someone has had good service from a company and they would like to help others make an informed decision on a possible purchase then I'd say good on them. It gets tiresome listening to the same sanctimonious rhetoric.
 
Steep said:
Just as you are free to get on your high horse about tax avoidance the OP is free to praise the service of a company he chooses to use. I seem to remember in the past the same argument being used round the other way re the right to make comments.
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High horse? I put forward one side of the argument for discussion and am waiting for OP to put his side of why we're being ripped off ;)
 
From the back of your high horse.
 
rick448 said:
Would it be possible for those who disagree with grey imports to just keep their opinions in one place, rather than jumping on every thread and turning it into an argument? We all choose how we spend our money and as such should be allowed to discuss this with others on an ... erm discussion forum. If someone has had good service from a company and they would like to help others make an informed decision on a possible purchase then I'd say good on them. It gets tiresome listening to the same sanctimonious rhetoric.
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GLOL. Post of the thread so far. “Please stop moaning about me breaking the law”

I’m going to assume that OP was suggesting that some UK companies could learn for the delivery speed and communication from Panamoz rather than just suggesting they should stop paying the required VAT. There is no way they can compete on price with companies like Panamoz.
 
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rick448 said:
Would it be possible for those who disagree with grey imports to just keep their opinions in one place, rather than jumping on every thread and turning it into an argument? We all choose how we spend our money and as such should be allowed to discuss this with others on an ... erm discussion forum. If someone has had good service from a company and they would like to help others make an informed decision on a possible purchase then I'd say good on them. It gets tiresome listening to the same sanctimonious rhetoric.
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Sigh sanctimonious rhetoric :( Yet it's fine to say great service from a company that delivers in 5 days when a UK company could have done it next day? It's only great because the price is cheaper from not paying VAT (which is payable so does that mean the buyer is liable?)
It's a discussion forum, buying a grey import then this is one side of the argument for and against.

Should we not have any discussion of the grey market then because its been discussed before. Does that mean we shouldn't have threads praising suppliers as we've had those before?
 
Andrew Benbow said:
GLOL. Post of the thread so far. “Please stop moaning about me breaking the law”

I’m going to assume that OP was suggesting that some UK companies could learn for the delivery speed and communication from Panamoz rather than just suggesting they should stop paying the required VAT. There is no way they can compete on price with companies like Panamoz.
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I'd be very interested to here how many people on here pay the required tax on photographs they sell, as well as many other rules / laws people break on a day to day basis. Though I'm sure you don't break any laws at all and you are a fine upstanding citizen in society. Why don't all you holier than though types go and create your own back slapping thread and bask in your collective glory...
 
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Byker28i said:
Sigh sanctimonious rhetoric :( Yet it's fine to say great service from a company that delivers in 5 days when a UK company could have done it next day? It's only great because the price is cheaper from not paying VAT (which is payable so does that mean the buyer is liable?)
It's a discussion forum, buying a grey import then this is one side of the argument for and against.

Should we not have any discussion of the grey market then because its been discussed before. Does that mean we shouldn't have threads praising suppliers as we've had those before?
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Discuss away, it just gets boring when it is the same argument over and over again. I for one won't be bothering again.
 
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Steep said:
From the back of your high horse.
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Ok point taken, its not meant to be.

So VAT is payable on imports. If it's not paid by the importer does the liability then fall onto the purchaser?
 
The liability has always been on the importer, never on the supplier. If you buy from the likes of Panamoz it's up to you to contact hmrc and pay the duty/tax.
 
Steep said:
The liability has always been on the importer, never on the supplier. If you buy from the likes of Panamoz it's up to you to contact hmrc and pay the duty/tax.
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Hum I've found
As a UK resident the purchaser is legally required, upon receipt of the goods, to pay import duty and VAT at 20%. For peace of mind it is advisable to check the small print of the vendor’s documentation. According to H.M. Customs and Excise, unscrupulous overseas suppliers may falsely describe or value items to evade import duty. If the Customs declaration form on the parcel is found to be misleading then the recipient may be liable to financial penalty or prosecution. Purchasers may even have to forfeit the goods.

Panamoz: While we will pay for all import and customs charges, we are unable to provide a VAT invoice, as we are not a VAT company.

Does that therefore mean Vat is payable and they've pushed that liability onto the purchaser?
 
rick448 said:
I'd be very interested to here how many people on here pay the required tax on photographs they sell, as well as many other rules / laws people break on a day to day basis. Though I'm sure you don't break any laws at all and you are a fine upstanding citizen in society. Why don't all you holier than though types go and create your own back slapping thread and bask in your collective glory...
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Ah, the argument of someone who knows they are wrong and needs to justify it.
 
So reading more into this and that thread, Vat is payable by the purchaser and should be declared. Probably something people who purchase from the grey market aren't aware of
 
rick448 said:
Would it be possible for those who disagree with grey imports to just keep their opinions in one place, rather than jumping on every thread and turning it into an argument? We all choose how we spend our money and as such should be allowed to discuss this with others on an ... erm discussion forum.
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Erm, no, because it's a Discussion Forum, and we're not about to stifle opinions contrary to yours. Pretty much EVERYONE who's been a member on TP for more than a few weeks knows that as soon as someone posts a thread praising ANY of the grey importers, it's going to attact posts from people who don't hold with tax evasion. Hence all the popcorn smileys etc as the first few comments.

If you post on this forum stating that you've had great service from a grey importer, thats fine, you're entitiled to do so, but be aware that as far as i'm concerned, the "tax brigade" are also entitled to remind you of your obligations and/or moral/legal shortcomings.
 
TheBigYin said:
Erm, no, because it's a Discussion Forum, and we're not about to stifle opinions contrary to yours. Pretty much EVERYONE who's been a member on TP for more than a few weeks knows that as soon as someone posts a thread praising ANY of the grey importers, it's going to attact posts from people who don't hold with tax evasion. Hence all the popcorn smileys etc as the first few comments.

If you post on this forum stating that you've had great service from a grey importer, thats fine, you're entitiled to do so, but be aware that as far as i'm concerned, the "tax brigade" are also entitled to remind you of your obligations and/or moral/legal shortcomings.
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I know what happens when every one of these threads starts, hence asking if it’s possible to prevent the constant moaning and gnashing of teeth around this particular area of tax avoidance. That’s all.

Personally I don’t care what others think, and certainly aren’t bothered by the opinions of a few keyboard warriors or wannabe tax collectors. The problem is, it isn’t a discussion at all is it, it’s just a chance for a few people to jump on the outrage bus. I’ll just refrain from these “discussions” in future.
 
rick448 said:
I know what happens when every one of these threads starts, hence asking if it’s possible to prevent the constant moaning and gnashing of teeth around this particular area of tax avoidance. That’s all.

Personally I don’t care what others think, and certainly aren’t bothered by the opinions of a few keyboard warriors or wannabe tax collectors. The problem is, it isn’t a discussion at all is it, it’s just a chance for a few people to jump on the outrage bus. I’ll just refrain from these “discussions” in future.
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To be fair, you've jumped on the outrage bus yourself. "keyboard warriors", "sanctimonious rhetoric." as did the OP with "A lot of suppliers in the UK could take a lesson from them." and "alway's being ripped off". Would you consider that one sided. Was it only about price as delivery was 5 days?
We also have rules on here about not discussing or encouraging illegal activities. Tax evasion is one of those although to be fair I don't think most purchasers are aware that they are liable for the VAT. I think it's also fair to point out possible warranty issues.

I'll remember stick to reminding people to check their VAT responsibilities and warranty so I don't upset your delicate sensibilities ;)
 
Byker28i said:
To be fair, you've jumped on the outrage bus yourself. "keyboard warriors", "sanctimonious rhetoric." as did the OP with "A lot of suppliers in the UK could take a lesson from them." and "alway's being ripped off". Would you consider that one sided. Was it only about price as delivery was 5 days?
We also have rules on here about not discussing or encouraging illegal activities. Tax evasion is one of those although to be fair I don't think most purchasers are aware that they are liable for the VAT. I think it's also fair to point out possible warranty issues.

I'll remember stick to reminding people to check their VAT responsibilities and warranty so I don't upset your delicate sensibilities ;)
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You won’t upset me at all. I’m aware of my responsibilities, but thank you for your concern :)
 
swiftflo said:
Personally I would buy UK products if we weren't alway's being ripped off.
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I think the arguments stemmed from this statement. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of going grey, I think it's unfair to knock UK retailers who are playing by the rules. As far as I'm aware margins are miniscule on many items once the initial higher price for early adopters has subsided.
 
ukaskew said:
I think the arguments stemmed from this statement.
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tbh, it actually started this time by praising how quickly it was received ............... 5 days. :eggface:
(although it's still in with all the usual guff when talking about the grey issues :rolleyes: )
 
HTT types never seem to think that somebody buying Chinesium products is perfectly aware of the possible issues but decides to go ahead anyway for reasons that are their business only.

It's internet disease, I must preach at you, I must show that I'm morally superior to you...
 
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