PANAMOZ.

[brad28]

I jus get fed up of people repeating themselves or things other people have said, its spamming the forum and starting unnecessary arguments we know the facts on importing goods where tax has not been paid.

 

[OldCarlos]

Lazy has nothing to do with it.
If you don't actually want to join in with a new thread, you could add the link to your thread, then stop moaning about folk discussing the same things?

 

[OldCarlos]

Maybe a good idea to add a `sticky` fully explaining the potential pitfalls & legalities?

 

[OldCarlos]

: As for "countless" Panamoz threads, that's not entirely true...

I never mentioned `countless panamoz threads`.

 

[ukaskew]

I jus get fed up of people repeating themselves or things other people have said, its spamming the forum and starting unnecessary arguments we know the facts on importing goods where tax has not been paid.

The number of people who suggest that UK prices are 'a joke' compared to Panamoz etc (such as the one on the last page) says to me that it's worth reiterating these critical points every now and again, as some people clearly don't get it (or just don't want to accept the facts of what is happening here).

Do you not feel that this is something that should be clarified when people ask about using them? I would put it pretty high on the list of things people should be aware of, even if as it transpires most people appear to be happy to use them despite what they do.

For the record, I have used Panamoz due to reading a fair few good reports on them here, the service was superb, I was however shocked at their 'tactics' (jump back to the top of page 9 for evidence of this), as I had presumed I would receive a bill, as I do for the many, many items I import every year (usually non camera stuff, but always correctly declared).

Pretty much everything is repeated in one way or another on the forum, it would be a much quieter place if everything was only ever discussed once.

 

[Musicman]

The number of people who suggest that UK prices are 'a joke' compared to Panamoz etc (such as the one on the last page) says to me that it's worth reiterating these critical points every now and again, as some people clearly don't get it (or just don't want to accept the facts of what is happening here).

Do you not feel that this is something that should be clarified when people ask about using them? I would put it pretty high on the list of things people should be aware of, even if as it transpires most people appear to be happy to use them despite what they do.

Perfectly correct, IMO

 

[OldCarlos]

And me.

It's fine to give positive feedback, but also equally important to highlight potential pitfalls, otherwise folk (especially newer posters) don't get a balanced view on which to make a decision.

 

[Milkfloat]

Surely everyone knows the potential pitfalls? I have not read the whole thread but I do see plenty of comments about the fact that the goods are grey imports, the company may or may not pay the correct import duty, the warranty service and potential issues with bank transfers. All things that need to be considered before a purchase. I spent more time over my purchase that buying my house.

 

[OldCarlos]

tbh Simon, I'm not sure EVERYONE does.

Until about a year ago I hadn't fully understood the `grey import` market & certainly hadn't realised the pitfalls.
Newer posters, maybe just starting out or thinking about updating/adding to their kit, might just see a few positive reviews on a forum & jump in not knowing any better. That's why a balanced view is so important, ESPECIALLY on forums like this, rather than the so-called independent review sites.

 

[Dexy101]

Would be keen to know how much it's going for these days. Last I heard was £1765, and that was on another thread before Christmas.

Will do. Should hear back tonight or tomorrow.

 

[c.grex]

What a mess this thread is.... It's people falling out about what?

Has anybody asked Panamoz if the pay tax or VAT??? I buy loads of stuff online and a never ask if VAT is included.

I requested a invoice yesterday for a Camera kit. it came via email in the afternoon and I paid this morning. The tracking number was sent by dinner, and the kit is on it's way.
The only thing I know is that it has 12 months warranty, it came from a UK website with a UK telephone number. I wouldn't know if any tax has been paid or not, but as with all my other online and off line sales I never tend to ask.

A sticky thread with facts about grey imports may be a good idea. but be careful saying that these company's don't pay TAX/VAT, as far as I can see read there is no hard fact to say that they have defiantly evaded it.

BTW, I started looking at this thread knowing all about grey imports, I just wanted to know if people here had good buying experience and customer service. I for one have so far.....

 

[downs523]

Ordered a canon 6D with 50mm 1.4, got the invoice email the next day and it is now showing as in he postal system via DHL. Should be here Monday/ Tuesday.

Second order from them, recommended

 

[Llamaman]

I requested a invoice yesterday for a Camera kit. it came via email in the afternoon and I paid this morning. The tracking number was sent by dinner, and the kit is on it's way.
The only thing I know is that it has 12 months warranty, it came from a UK website with a UK telephone number. I wouldn't know if any tax has been paid or not, but as with all my other online and off line sales I never tend to ask.

A sticky thread with facts about grey imports may be a good idea. but be careful saying that these company's don't pay TAX/VAT, as far as I can see read there is no hard fact to say that they have defiantly evaded it.

If they were paying VAT it would be on your invoice (it's a legal requirement to split out the VAT). The fact that you don't know if tax has been paid suggests it's not on the invoice - meaning VAT isn't being paid.

 

[Musicman]

Has anybody asked Panamoz if the pay tax or VAT???

Panamoz FAQ

http://panamoz.com/index.php/faq#shipping

3. Will I have to pay additional charges?

Your government may charge you taxes and duties. Under all circumstances, we will fully pay/reimburse for all taxes, duties, and related charges.

[emphasis added]

I buy loads of stuff online and a never ask if VAT is included.

I requested a invoice yesterday for a Camera kit. it came via email in the afternoon and I paid this morning. The tracking number was sent by dinner, and the kit is on it's way.
The only thing I know is that it has 12 months warranty, it came from a UK website with a UK telephone number. I wouldn't know if any tax has been paid or not, but as with all my other online and off line sales I never tend to ask.

Does your invoice show that they have charged you VAT and how much VAT has been charged?

A sticky thread with facts about grey imports may be a good idea. but be careful saying that these company's don't pay TAX/VAT, as far as I can see read there is no hard fact to say that they have defiantly evaded it.

Well, let's examine the HMRC rules for VAT Invoices, for suppliers who are UK registered for VAT.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/charging/vat-invoices.htm

When a VAT invoice must be issued

If you are registered for VAT you must give any VAT-registered customers a VAT invoice for any standard-rated or reduced-rated goods or services you sell them.

If you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one.

Now, what happens if you ask Panamoz for a VAT invoice?

Consulting the Panamoz FAQ again

http://panamoz.com/index.php/faq#general

7. Are you able to issue a VAT invoice?

Please note we don't provide this service currently.

They cannot provide this service because they are not charging you VAT.

QED

 

[Jesus Quintana]

I just placed an order for a D7000. I got a reply from Tina after nudging her with a reminder email today for my invoice. All paid up now. Now the anxious wait.
I have broken every rule that I always laugh at others for not following:

Bank Transfer as payment
Ordering from outside the UK
Not having my hands on an expensive product before parting with my money
Trusting the internet

However an 18% discount over the Cheapest UK price with one years replacement warranty is just too good to turn down. It is only because of threads like this that I am willing to do it. Fingers crossed.

I hope they had a few in stock!!! I've ordered one as well after a bit of messing around with my bank today :bonk: Anyway, sounds like we're in the very same boat

I take it yours was £529 (if it's the body only)?

 

[Byker28i]

The messing about from the bank was quite rightly because they are trying to protect their customer from being defrauded from overseas. It's because you are bank transferring money overseas. Once they have it that you are happy to accept liability then they will transfer your money.

 

[c.grex]

The messing about from the bank was quite rightly because they are trying to protect their customer from being defrauded from overseas. It's because you are bank transferring money overseas. Once they have it that you are happy to accept liability then they will transfer your money.

Yet another comment on this thread that people are second guessing something. The bank account you send the money to is a UK HSBC account.

 

[c.grex]

Well, let's examine the HMRC rules for VAT Invoices, for suppliers who are UK registered for VAT.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/charging/vat-invoices.htm

If you are registered for VAT, then whenever you supply goods or services to someone else who is also registered for VAT you must give them a VAT invoice.

??? I'm not registered for VAT, so can't say I have always had Vat invoices or receipts. I'm not saying that you information is wrong, it's just I don't really care. I like to buy things the cheapest I can!

As has been pointed out a few times in this thread, I'm sure that 90% people will know just what they are doing buying a grey import. if not there is more than enough scary comments to help put them off.

I'd just like to see more comments about people have gone on buying, and any issues.

 

[Milkfloat]

I hope they had a few in stock!!! I've ordered one as well after a bit of messing around with my bank today :bonk: Anyway, sounds like we're in the very same boat

I take it yours was £529 (if it's the body only)?

There or there abouts. It is always worth negotiating. It seems there are at least 5 people posting about a new D7000 in the last week alone. Time for a new thread for Jan 2013 D7000 users only

 

[ukaskew]

but be careful saying that these company's don't pay TAX/VAT, as far as I can see read there is no hard fact to say that they have defiantly evaded it.

Plenty of people (including myself) have received orders from Panamoz with a negligible amount declared on the package and an incorrect description of the goods contained within it. People have asked for a VAT invoice with no luck. I have no issue whatsoever stating that on a public forum as it's fact, backed up by evidence.

Grey imports are fine as long as you are aware of the pitfalls (warranty etc), if correctly declared you would pay the appropriate taxes (to the courier, who will have already settled with HMRC), that's perfectly above board and legal.

There are two distinct issues here, grey imports and import duty/VAT. Somewhat ironically grey imports are being tarred by the second issue. Within reason you can personally import pretty much what you like into this country, a lens, a car, a pair of jeans. The manufacturers may not like it but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as the goods are correctly declared.

 

[Musicman]

Plenty of people (including myself) have received orders from Panamoz with a negligible amount declared on the package and an incorrect description of the goods contained within it.

It should be noted that the customs declaration on goods being imported is the legal responsibility of the importer (I.e. you) not the sender (Panamoz, in the terms of this discussion).

https://www.gov.uk/browse/business/imports-exports

When you import goods from outside the EU, the sender must complete a customs declaration form. Check with them that the form is filled in correctly. By law, this is your responsibility. HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) can fine you or seize your goods if there is a mistake on the form. In some circumstances you might be prosecuted.

 

[Musicman]

Also, if the goods you are importing are worth more than £2000, you are required by HMRC to complete an SAD C88 form, separately from the customs declaration on the outside of the package.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...HMCE_CL_000204&propertyType=document#P20_1264

 

[Dexy101]

I've decided not to bother with Panamoz and gone with HDEW. The reason being HDEW have a number where you can speak to someone and Panamoz didn't return 3 emails I sent them.

 

[Roule Duke]

I am considering using Panamoz, the savings on offer can not be ignored. Seems there are many happy customers on here, my purchase will be going on the credit card, im assuming this is acceptable form of payment?

 

[brad28]

I am considering using Panamoz, the savings on offer can not be ignored. Seems there are many happy customers on here, my purchase will be going on the credit card, im assuming this is acceptable form of payment?

Yes, you use PayPal to pay

You don't have to have an account though.

 

[Roule Duke]

Yes, you use PayPal to pay

You don't have to have an account though.

Cheers Brad, thanks for the heads up.

 

[brad28]

Cheers Brad, thanks for the heads up.

No problem, this was how I paid for my first purchase being skeptical but plan on paying by bank transfer in future to save 5%.

 

[Byker28i]

Yet another comment on this thread that people are second guessing something. The bank account you send the money to is a UK HSBC account.

6 posts, 4 on this thread about Panamoz. Any connection to the company?

When I enquired before christmas the BT was to an overseas account so no second guessing at all. I bought my 5Dmk3 from a UK seller.

Again I've no problem with where anyone buys their stuff from, but people need to be fully aware of exactly what the purchase entails.

 

[brad28]

6 posts, 4 on this thread about Panamoz. Any connection to the company?

When I enquired before christmas the BT was to an overseas account so no second guessing at all. I bought my 5Dmk3 from a UK seller.

Again I've no problem with where anyone buys their stuff from, but people need to be fully aware of exactly what the purchase entails.

I fully agree

 

[c.grex]

I have no connection Panamoz. And I can asure the payment I made on Friday was a UK bank account (maybe they use more than one??)

but it seems there a lot of people on this post have something against panamoz, but as I have already said, I came to this forum looking for what experience people had with panamoz, not for abuse (great warm and welcoming forum for people looking for info)

I am sure you are correct that the may be evading tax, and if someone is worried about it, all you would need to do is go somewhere else or ask them to declare everything up front and you will pay any fees.

Again as I have already said, I don't really want or care about the tax issue, they say they will pay any bills you get. As long as I get it as cheap as possible with some warranty that is worth using, I'm happy.

 

[c.grex]

Yes, you use PayPal to pay

You don't have to have an account though.

you are protected with paypal also, even if it a debit card you use for payment. I must admit I was going to use my card for the protection, but thought the extra 5% was too good to miss.

 

[andrewc]

Be careful.

The credit card company may say that their part of the transaction ended with paypal.

 

[c.grex]

Be careful.

The credit card company may say that their part of the transaction ended with paypal.

This is true, but That's when you can use paypal buyer protection

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I think the entire Panamoz discussion comes down to two choices.

1. People that are happy to buy from overseas knowing that the seller will not "declare" the goods correctly when sending and thus evade import Duty & VAT.

2. Those that are not happy with the above and would prefer to buy from a UK company.

I work for a company that imports/exports daily and we use DHL/UPS/TNT etc.

Putting a camera or such in a box then declaring this as a toy is 100% a no and not just for the reasons of avoiding the duty & VAT.
The security issues are paramount and items must be declared correctly so that the carrier knows "exactly" what they are transporting.

If UPS/DHL etc. got wind of this they would not be carrying these goods.

 

[WorldUK]

I am going for it, at the moment seems to me its bit over 200£ cheaper than any other UK offer.

Will wait for invoice now.

 

[Ploddles]

I think the entire Panamoz discussion comes down to two choices.

1. People that are happy to buy from overseas knowing that the seller will not "declare" the goods correctly when sending and thus evade import Duty & VAT.

2. Those that are not happy with the above and would prefer to buy from a UK company.

I work for a company that imports/exports daily and we use DHL/UPS/TNT etc.

Putting a camera or such in a box then declaring this as a toy is 100% a no and not just for the reasons of avoiding the duty & VAT.
The security issues are paramount and items must be declared correctly so that the carrier knows "exactly" what they are transporting.

If UPS/DHL etc. got wind of this they would not be carrying these goods.

I don't think DHL/UPS give 2 monkeys what is declared on the packaging, it is non of their business, and they are being paid and make a profit.

 

[downs523]

Got my 6D and 50mm 1.4 delivered today by DHL. Well packaged, 4 day turn around from ordering (inc wknd). One issue is item description note invoice stated $15 value and "sample imaging device" no bother to me but....must be wrong?

Anyway £1410 all in inc delivery, bargin

Pics below

 

[dave_bass5]

One issue is item description note invoice stated $15 value and "sample imaging device" no bother to me but....must be wrong?

Thats how they get it through customs without any charge.

Congrats on the new kit, looks lovely. I'd check the serial number on the bottom matches the one in the Exif, just for peace of mind.

 

[downs523]

Thanks mate, What does checking the serial number with the exif prove?

 

[dave_bass5]

Thanks mate, What does checking the serial number with the exif prove?

In a recent thread about the Canon 5dMKIII, specifically from DigitalRev it was seen that some of the cameras coming from HK had fake serial numbers on them. The cameras weren't fake, just the labels. Canon refused to touch these cameras if any repairs were needed.
I think the issues have been resolved for those who have found this but it wont hurt to make sure everything is in order.