Panamoz problems

mjkent

mjkent

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Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has had any problems with delivery from Panamoz?? I read a bit about them on hear and they get really good reviews but I have a problem with my delivery.

I ordered a 6d last Monday on it arrives in the UK from Hong Kong 2 days later. But since then it has been stuck at Stanstead because there is a problem with unpaid duty. TNT say I need to pay or Panamoz need to pay and Panamoz say that HMRC need to charge there account.

Panamoz have been good and already knocked off £40 for the delay and they just reply saying delivery will be hopefully be later this week.

I'm sure it will eventually turn up but I was just curious if anyone had experienced any similar problems??

Thanks all,

Mike
 
Paperwork and red tape unfortunately.
 
i thought duties were the responsibility of the buyer? Fair play if Panamoz pay them.
 
Panamoz say that the price you pay includes all taxes and duties. So to be fair the prices they charge are very good! So far with the discount they have given me as a good will gesture, the camera is more than £250 cheaper than Wex or Park, even with their current cash back promotion. All I need now is my camera.....
 
mjkent said:
Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has had any problems with delivery from Panamoz?? I read a bit about them on hear and they get really good reviews but I have a problem with my delivery.

I ordered a 6d last Monday on it arrives in the UK from Hong Kong 2 days later. But since then it has been stuck at Stanstead because there is a problem with unpaid duty. TNT say I need to pay or Panamoz need to pay and Panamoz say that HMRC need to charge there account.

Panamoz have been good and already knocked off £40 for the delay and they just reply saying delivery will be hopefully be later this week.

I'm sure it will eventually turn up but I was just curious if anyone had experienced any similar problems??

Thanks all,

Mike
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Interesting! You/Panamoz have got clobbered for import duty and VAT - that should be legally paid on all imports from outside the EU. The fact that it hardly ever happens is the reason Panamoz are prepared to pay it, but they'll make no profit on this deal as a result.

If HMRC are finally clamping down on this and it's more than just a very rare one-off situation, grey imports will vanish overnight...
 
HoppyUK said:
Interesting! You/Panamoz have got clobbered for import duty and VAT - that should be legally paid on all imports from outside the EU. The fact that it hardly ever happens is the reason Panamoz are prepared to pay it, but they'll make no profit on this deal as a result.

If HMRC are finally clamping down on this and it's more than just a very rare one-off situation, grey imports will vanish overnight...
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This is true. I thought it would happen at some point. Maybe it was an unlucky spot check, but who knows.
 
I got clobbered on a Lens hood import from Japan a month ago.
 
JJ! said:
This is true. I thought it would happen at some point. Maybe it was an unlucky spot check, but who knows.
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All it would take to stop grey importing, and maybe throw a life-line to UK dealers, is for HMRC to clobber a few more people and publicise it. Technically, they could confiscate the goods, give you a hefty fine and a criminal record - payment of tax and duty is the buyer's legal responsibility. Nobody would take that risk.
 
HoppyUK said:
All it would take to stop grey importing, and maybe throw a life-line to UK dealers, is for HMRC to clobber a few more people and publicise it. Technically, they could confiscate the goods, give you a hefty fine and a criminal record - payment of tax and duty is the buyer's legal responsibility. Nobody would take that risk.
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They would never do that, otherwise I could send you a present and land you in jail.
 
Archie747 said:
I expect HRMC can differentiate between gifts and personal imports.
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Unless they get the original invoice and card purchase, how would they know from the address label?

And turning the table, does that mean all package with the box "gift" ticked will be fine?
 
Canon Bob said:
The question is.....
Would UK retailers lower their prices due to having a higher turnover or would they raise them because the competition has evaporated?
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I doubt it is up to the retailers. By all accounts the margins on new goods are effectively controlled by the manufacturers as they are so small.
 
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Canon Bob said:
The question is.....
Would UK retailers lower their prices due to having a higher turnover or would they raise them because the competition has evaporated?
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But the true competition would not have evaporated - the other UK dealers that are playing by the same rules, and not far Eastern sellers that are able to unfairly undercut them by avoiding duty and VAT.
 
HoppyUK said:
But the true competition would not have evaporated - the other UK dealers that are playing by the same rules
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There is no competition though, prices are virtually if not completely regulated:

capture2.jpg
 
I ordered a d750 from them a couple of weeks ago and had no issues with the import, although mine came UPS - not sure if that makes a difference.

Hope you get sorted
 
HoppyUK said:
But the true competition would not have evaporated - the other UK dealers that are playing by the same rules, and not far Eastern sellers that are able to unfairly undercut them by avoiding duty and VAT.
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Surely the 'true' competition embraces all vendors selling the same product irrespective of whether they're playing by the same rules.
 
Lets face it neither HMRC or Customs have the resources to check every single package to make sure that duty is being paid for everything and any extra money that does go into Border Security is likely to be targeted at Drugs, Terror and People Smuggling, not checking every package that comes in from Hong Kong to make sure that camera equipment is declared correctly, there just simply isn't the manpower or resources to do that.

I don't see that prices would suddenly shoot up if grey's were stopped, people will always find a way and unless they were stopped globally (i.e Europe and the US did the same) there would likely be workarounds.
 
Canon Bob said:
Surely the 'true' competition embraces all vendors selling the same product irrespective of whether they're playing by the same rules.
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True, but if that's what we want then UK-based retailers, particularly the bricks & mortar variety that I like to have around, will continue to disappear. My local town Peterborough used to have three camera shops, now none. I think that's a bad thing and it's also bad economics to buy grey with 100% of the value going out of the country, zero tax paid, no employment, no income tax benefit etc etc.

And while I'm not taking any kind or moral stance (I've bought grey myself) grey imports are actually illegal. It's a polite word for black market trading, technically it's smuggling. They used to hang smugglers LOL :eek:
 
gramps said:
There is no competition though, prices are virtually if not completely regulated:

View attachment 102293
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It's another discussion really, and while manufacturers would deny it, they do actually control prices (albeit indirectly) and are totally two-faced about grey imports. Officially they disapprove, unofficially they use grey sellers to moderate manufacturing and inventory levels. They could easily stop it if they wanted to - they know exactly who is selling what.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Unless they get the original invoice and card purchase, how would they know from the address label?

And turning the table, does that mean all package with the box "gift" ticked will be fine?
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Gifts still attract duty and VAT, the starting limit is just double non-gifts.
 
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mjkent said:
Panamoz say that the price you pay includes all taxes and duties. So to be fair the prices they charge are very good! So far with the discount they have given me as a good will gesture, the camera is more than £250 cheaper than Wex or Park, even with their current cash back promotion. All I need now is my camera.....
Click to expand...

They undervalue the goods, and then pre-pay the duty due based on that value.

If there's been a spot check, and HMRC have opened the package, they can then see that the value of the item is incorrectly declared and they'll be charging Panamoz the additional amount. As the shipper had already pre-paid some of it, they've probably just gone to them, rather than issue an invoice to you.
 
Geoff Moore said:
The following might be of interest to some.. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...eal-deal-imported-sold-unofficially-consumers
@HoppyUK there is nothing illegal in importing products as a consumer, as long as the correct duty is paid where applicable and that the items being imported are not banned, or on a restricted list.

Also: https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad
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Yes, sorry I should have been clear - the illegal bit is not the importing process but the non-payment of duty and VAT (which is the buyer's responsibility).

But obviously nobody does pay it (except in very rare cases) and if that cost is added on, then any saving disappears and it may even cost more than an official product.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
They undervalue the goods, and then pre-pay the duty due based on that value.

If there's been a spot check, and HMRC have opened the package, they can then see that the value of the item is incorrectly declared and they'll be charging Panamoz the additional amount. As the shipper had already pre-paid some of it, they've probably just gone to them, rather than issue an invoice to you.
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Hmmm - doubt it.

More likely they don't pay any duty in advance, but have terms with the shipper to re-bill back any additional charges.

If they were routinely paying duty upfront, they would be collecting it and itemising it at the point of checkout as that would take away all the uncertainty and bad press for zero additional cost to them.
 
Furtim said:
Hmmm - doubt it.

More likely they don't pay any duty in advance, but have terms with the shipper to re-bill back any additional charges.

If they were routinely paying duty upfront, they would be collecting it and itemising it at the point of checkout as that would take away all the uncertainty and bad press for zero additional cost to them.
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Well when I received an order from them it had a pre-paid duty certificate on the front of it.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Well when I received an order from them it had a pre-paid duty certificate on the front of it.
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It's worth remembering Duty does not equal VAT.

Import Duty is one thing (and happens to be zero on Digital Camera bodies)
VAT is then due on the Cost + Import Duty total at 20%
 
Furtim said:
It's worth remembering Duty does not equal VAT.

Import Duty is one thing (and happens to be zero on Digital Camera bodies)
VAT is then due on the Cost + Import Duty total at 20%
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Well it was probably VAT then, it was a year ago now. But it showed a value of the item (not the right value) and an amount that had been paid to HMRC before shipping. I assumed they did it that way, because they were still making profit and having something paid on an item might make it less likely to get spot checked vs not paying anything.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Well it was probably VAT then, it was a year ago now. But it showed a value of the item (not the right value) and an amount that had been paid to HMRC before shipping. I assumed they did it that way, because they were still making profit and having something paid on an item might make it less likely to get spot checked vs not paying anything.
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Their FAQ states that they are not a VAT registered company, therefore they can not legally be collecting VAT on your behalf, and if they are not VAT registered, they have no means of paying VAT systematically to the UK Government. The only thing they can be doing is spot paying the 'penalty' duty / VAT when checked by HMRC. That VAT element would also have to detailed on your invoice, as this would be your proof that you had paid the VAT (as it is your responsibility as set our in the T&C).

If I were a betting man, I might suggest that the certificate you received is naught but a work of fiction, but a betting man I am not.
 
The whole thing is totally wrapped up in smoke and mirrors - lies basically - from all quarters.
 
mjkent said:
Panamoz have been good and already knocked off £40 for the delay and they just reply saying delivery will be hopefully be later this week.
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Consider yourself lucky if they pay. You should be paying the duty and handling charges.
 
TLR-330 said:
Consider yourself lucky if they pay. You should be paying the duty and handling charges.
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My friends package from panamoz was stopped a couple of months ago. It was only delayed a day as panamoz paid up immediately. So I'd consider the op massively unlucky to have to pick up the bill.
 
HoppyUK said:
And while I'm not taking any kind or moral stance (I've bought grey myself) grey imports are actually illegal. It's a polite word for black market trading, technically it's smuggling.
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That isn't really what 'grey import' means. Grey imports are just imports outside the manufacturer's official distribution channels. Some of the major US dealers like B&H and Adorama openly sell perfectly legal grey imports at a discount relative to their officially imported stock. What's being described here is actually, not just technically, smuggling.
 
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