Panamoz - phone them and get generic answering machine reply. Legit?

menthel said:
One member has posted up their invoice from HDEW including VAT number (verified). One of the mods was in contact with Digital Rev and confirmed that taxes were paid, as have other members whom have confirmed that they have paid tax receipts on their packages. Panamoz lie on their declarations so that tax is not paid and therefore anyone buying with them and then not declaring and paying tax etc is breaking the law. It is fairly black and white really. :)
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I am not sure it is so Black and White Take a look at DigitalRevs conditions:

"When ordering goods from DigitalRev Limited, overseas deliveries may be subject to import duties and taxes, which are levied once the package reaches the specified destination. Any additional charges for customs clearance must be borne by you, unless an Import Handling Charge is included in the price of the goods.

Related importation costs include any import tax and/or duty levied on the invoiced order, any courier's customs handling surcharges, any Free Domicile forwarding surcharges levied by the courier. Different customs policies around the world may apply other additional customs costs or clearance costs. We have no control over these charges and cannot predict what they may be. Any other additional charge is not considered to be directly related to the importation and is therefore not covered by Digitalrev Limited. Customs policies vary widely from country to country, so you should contact your local Customs officer for further information. Additionally, please note that when ordering from DigitalRev Limited, you are considered the sole importer of record and must comply with all laws and regulations of the country in which you are receiving the goods. Your privacy is important to us and we know that you care about how information about your order is used and shared. We would like our international customers and customers dispatching products internationally to be aware that cross-border deliveries are subject to opening and inspection by customs authorities. "

So as well as promising to refund you if you get stuck with fees, they also say that you are liable. Does not sound like they are paying tax on everything.

I am just trying to play devils advocate - I am not sure any of us really know what is going on. If you want to ensure you are 100% legal and morally correct, buy from your local camera shop and ensure you get a European warranty card.
 
Milkfloat said:
I am not sure it is so Black and White Take a look at DigitalRevs conditions:

"When ordering goods from DigitalRev Limited, overseas deliveries may be subject to import duties and taxes, which are levied once the package reaches the specified destination. Any additional charges for customs clearance must be borne by you, unless an Import Handling Charge is included in the price of the goods.

Related importation costs include any import tax and/or duty levied on the invoiced order, any courier's customs handling surcharges, any Free Domicile forwarding surcharges levied by the courier. Different customs policies around the world may apply other additional customs costs or clearance costs. We have no control over these charges and cannot predict what they may be. Any other additional charge is not considered to be directly related to the importation and is therefore not covered by Digitalrev Limited. Customs policies vary widely from country to country, so you should contact your local Customs officer for further information. Additionally, please note that when ordering from DigitalRev Limited, you are considered the sole importer of record and must comply with all laws and regulations of the country in which you are receiving the goods. Your privacy is important to us and we know that you care about how information about your order is used and shared. We would like our international customers and customers dispatching products internationally to be aware that cross-border deliveries are subject to opening and inspection by customs authorities. "

So as well as promising to refund you if you get stuck with fees, they also say that you are liable. Does not sound like they are paying tax on everything.

I am just trying to play devils advocate - I am not sure any of us really know what is going on. If you want to ensure you are 100% legal and morally correct, buy from your local camera shop and ensure you get a European warranty card.
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I know you are. I would usually buy UK stock too (in fact I only have one "grey" piece of kit and that is a 17-55 from HDEW having made sure that it would be "legit"). However, it has been demonstrated on TP that HDEW and DR do pay their taxes due (DR was confirmed by one of the mod/owners and hence why they are still advertisers on here- I don't have the thread details to hand). Personally I would usually buy new from a UK stockist or second hand from a good source as I like to have piece of mind that some dodgy wotsit on the other side of the world suddenly won't support me when things go wrong! ;)
 
I would presume all of you that are so hung up about import tax and import duties take the same stand with every company and never bought anything from Amazon and never use Google as a search engine, and will never buy a coffee out of Starbucks!
 
foxworld said:
I would presume all of you that are so hung up about import tax and import duties take the same stand with every company and never bought anything from Amazon and never use Google as a search engine, and will never buy a coffee out of Starbucks!
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Even if we do, it is a different situation. Their tax situation is legal (although morally wrong) within the UK, whereas this situation with the HK importers is fully illegal! Actually, I do boycott Starbucks but only cos their coffee is pretty awful! ;)
 
foxworld said:
I would presume all of you that are so hung up about import tax and import duties take the same stand with every company and never bought anything from Amazon and never use Google as a search engine, and will never buy a coffee out of Starbucks!
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Difference between illegal and immoral :)
 
menthel said:
Even if we do, it is a different situation. Their tax situation is legal (although morally wrong) within the UK, whereas this situation with the HK importers is fully illegal! Actually, I do boycott Starbucks but only cos their coffee is pretty awful! ;)
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The only difference is a little business like Panamoz wont be really making big big money or losing the tax payer that much anyway. But the three business I just mentioned are cheating the country multi millions! Long as we have our priorities straight eh! I don't really give a flying fk who is avoiding tax, It's some one else job to catch them! I just always find it funny how some people refuse to see the wood from the trees!
 
foxworld said:
The only difference is a little business like Panamoz wont be really making big big money or losing the tax payer that much anyway. But the three business I just mentioned are cheating the country multi millions! Long as we have our priorities straight eh! I don't really give a flying fk who is avoiding tax, It's some one else job to catch them! I just always find it funny how some people refuse to see the wood from the trees!
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Legal wood and moral trees! ;)
 
foxworld said:
The only difference is a little business like Panamoz wont be really making big big money or losing the tax payer that much anyway. But the three business I just mentioned are cheating the country multi millions! Long as we have our priorities straight eh! I don't really give a flying fk who is avoiding tax, It's some one else job to catch them! I just always find it funny how some people refuse to see the wood from the trees!
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I imagine the likes of WEX, Calumet, MPB etc see things a little differently as it's bound to put a dent in their business. Even based on the few who post order updates in the Panamoz thread there are many thousands of pounds going through them on a weekly basis, a percentage of which I'm sure would have stayed in the UK otherwise.

Ironically it's probably Amazon that will be left to hoover up legitimate UK purchases should any more independents fold.
 
Its my understanding that HDEW are not actually acting as camera sellers but are in fact are providing a paid service sourcing imports on the customers behalf. Under their store policies tab in the small print for "Intellectual Property" it says this...

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INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. Please note that by making a purchase on this website you will be acting as the importer of the product for all purposes including all customs regulations,copyright and trademark laws.You accept that the role of HDEW Cameras is limited to sourcing products and making them them available for you to import directly from the country of origin. By purchasing a product through this website you authorise us to make arrangements for clearance of customs on your behalf for the products you have ordered.
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Thus effectively you are paying for them for the service of finding the camera and arranging custom declarations on your behalf plus of course reimbursing them the cost of the camera that you imported....
 
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