Outdoor lighting advice

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Butler

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James Butler
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Is there any obvious way to differentiate between a lighting kit best suited to studio photography and one for outdoor work, or are most kits built with both in mind? Im looking for a strobe kit I can use primarily outdoor, Ive used Bowens before. Are there any kits people would particularly recommend?
 
All kits are built EITHER for indoor or outdoor use.
Mains powered kits for indoor use are cheaper, have faster recycling, brighter modelling lamps.

Battery powered kits for outdoor use can also be used indoors of course, but they really shine ( :)) outdoors.

There are some compromises, like the Bowens Gemini which is an indoor kit that has an optional battery, but that's a bit of a compromise.

"Advanced Photographer" has run a very etailed test of pretty much all the outdoor kits in their February issue, I think it will be out next week - well worth getting a copy and seeing what they have to say about the various options.
 
Thanks very much both of you! The Bowens Gemini kit looks good, but im not sure whether being an indoor kit I should be conscious of using such lamps outdoors in less than sunny weather?

One more thing, can anyone explain how noticeable the difference between 200, 400 and 500 watt strobes will be? Trying to decide what I can realistically justify.
 
The Bowens Gemini kit looks good, but im not sure whether being an indoor kit I should be conscious of using such lamps outdoors in less than sunny weather?
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IMO it's a long, long way from being the best option. Like all compromises, it does one thing well and everything else less well.

200,400,500 etc just refers to the amount of energy stored in the capacitors. In theory that also indicates how bright the flash will be, and in practice it often does too, but it isn't a reliable indicator of how much power will actually be delivered.

Power is a strange concept, most people assume that they need far more power than they really do...

In the studio, 300 Ws (Watt-seconds, not watts) is plenty for just about anything if you're shooting on digital. If push comes to shove then you can always effectively double the power just by moving the ISO dial from 100 to 200. If you're shooting on large format film you will need something like 2400Ws just to get the same effective depth of field...

For most people, 200 Ws is enough. 300Ws is just half a stop more than 200Ws and 400Ws is just a tiny bit more than 300Ws.

Outdoors though, it's different. 300Ws might be just enough on a dull day, but on a sunny day you'll need 600Ws if you want your lighting to dominate the sun and contribute more to the shot than the sun.
 
Garry Edwards said:
"Advanced Photographer" has run a very etailed test of pretty much all the outdoor kits in their February issue, I think it will be out next week - well worth getting a copy and seeing what they have to say about the various options.
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Out on the 18th.
 
As discussed above, I would recommend getting a battery operated kit if your primary use is outdoors. So something like the Lencatra Safari or Elinchrom Quadra (this will cost you a fortune) is the way to go in my opinion. :)

Garry Edwards said:
There are some compromises, like the Bowens Gemini which is an indoor kit that has an optional battery, but that's a bit of a compromise.
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I would not recommend this for outdoors. It will work, but it is slow and not so easy to use piece of kit. I had a go with 2 Bowens 500Ws monoblocks and battery pack. Definitely not worth buying if you plan to use them outdoors most of the time. Recycling time was extremely long.
 
This thread may help you, people who have tried different systems have commented on their findings.
Out on the 18th.
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But my advice to you is to sit on your plastic until the 18th, then spend a fiver on Advanced Photographer - it will be worth it just to read the tests, that fiver could save thousands!

Lencarta has advertised in it so will get a free copy, but even I would buy it if I had to:)
 
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I bought an interfit stellar x indoor kit 2nd hand a year ago off e-bay for £270(was excellent value). It has 2 600w units, and has been great for what i wanted. As i now want to use them outdoors on location i've had to buy an innovatronix inverter battery pack for £320 which i'm awaiting delivery on, which will do the job fine, and will mean i've got an outdoor set up with plenty of light for £600. What i would say is that i'm a plasterer and carrying some pretty heavy kit isn't that big a deal for me, however if i was starting from scratch again, i'd purchase one of the kits dedicated for outdoor use, as they are lighter and designed for purpose.
Take note on what Garry says about power, when using lights outdoors you definitely need the power because bumping up the iso isn't usually an option outdoors, as that would often defeat the object. This afternoon, i was practicing in the garden, shooting my niece in bight sunny conditions. One of my lights used at 1/2 power(=300w/s) was next to useless!
Also cheers for the information about beauty dishes Garry. I've ordered a 70cm white one from lencarta.
 
Il definitely get the mag when it's out!

By the way, where can you buy Lencarta Safari kits?
 
Innovatronix XT is quite a good option, if what you want is to take your studio heads outdoors now and then. It's like like the Bowens travel pack but more powerful and works with anything. There is now also the Mini version and bigger XT3 available from The Flash Centre, but not on their website yet.

A bit of a left-field idea, and I've not tried it yet, but you could plug an Elinchrom D-Lite (v light at 1.5Kg with real 400Ws) into the Innovatronix Mini, and have a powerful portable system that actually weighs less than some of the custom outdoor outfits. Should be reasonably cheap too.
 
Michael Sewell said:
Actually, that ain't bad for such a small and light unit. Like most things, there has to be a trade off somewhere, although I would think that would be sufficient for all but the busiest of location shooters.
I know it wouldn't meet my needs
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Interesting summary from the 'Tronix site about their three units

Power: XT3 > Mini > XT SE
Compatibility: XT3 > Mini > XT SE
# of Pops: XT3 > XT SE > Mini
Recycling Time: XT3 > Mini : XT SE
Weight: XT3 > XT SE > Mini
Dimension/Size: XT3 = XT SE > Mini

Which would suggest if you don't need a high number of 'pops' the Explorer Mini is the one to go for, as it betters the old XTSE on all other counts.

Paul
 
HoppyUK said:
A bit of a left-field idea, and I've not tried it yet, but you could plug an Elinchrom D-Lite (v light at 1.5Kg with real 400Ws) into the Innovatronix Mini, and have a powerful portable system that actually weighs less than some of the custom outdoor outfits. Should be reasonably cheap too.
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That looks very interesting, and possibly a "game changer" for some. Wonder why they didn't go down the lithium route for the battery?
 
treeman said:
That looks very interesting, and possibly a "game changer" for some. Wonder why they didn't go down the lithium route for the battery?
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Quote from Innovatronix

"1. Why does Innovatronix still use SLA, instead of Lithium batteries?
Answer: Innovatronix Inc is not dismissing the possibility of using Lithium
batteries for our portable battery solutions. We are continuously looking for
new technologies in the interest of technical and product developments.
However, at this point, we are not using Li Ion batteries because of the
following reasons:
– Cheap/inexpensive Li Ion batteries from China do not last at least 200
charge and discharge cycles. Most of them are only around 100+ charge
and discharge cycles. This is based on 20+ different batteries we have
tested. This parameter is not acceptable to Innovatronix standards.
– In addition to inherent charge and discharge cycle limitation, at this
moment, due to travel restrictions, loose or spare lithium ion batteries
are not allowed in checked-baggages, unlike safe-to-travel sealed lead
acid batteries. See related articles on restrictions for Li-ion batteries for
air transport.
– Cheap/inexpensive Li Ion batteries are unreliable. They can explode and
you wouldn't know if the battery life had ended or lapsed.
As a matter of policy, Innovatronx Inc will not release Li-ion powered
battery pack until we are ready, that safety and security of the end-user is
ensured."
Paul
 
paul williams said:
Quote from Innovatronix

"1. Why does Innovatronix still use SLA, instead of Lithium batteries?
Answer: Innovatronix Inc is not dismissing the possibility of using Lithium
batteries for our portable battery solutions. We are continuously looking for
new technologies in the interest of technical and product developments.
However, at this point, we are not using Li Ion batteries because of the
following reasons:
– Cheap/inexpensive Li Ion batteries from China do not last at least 200
charge and discharge cycles. Most of them are only around 100+ charge
and discharge cycles. This is based on 20+ different batteries we have
tested. This parameter is not acceptable to Innovatronix standards.
Click to expand...


Interesting, The difference between cheap and expensive Lithium must be great. Profoto say their Lithium battery last 4 times longer the the Lead Acid.

I hope so...:shrug:
 
treeman said:
That looks very interesting, and possibly a "game changer" for some. Wonder why they didn't go down the lithium route for the battery?
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Edit: crossed post with Paul/Mark. Must remember not to make tea half way through :D

Good question, and one that Innovatronix addresses in their FAQ. Personally, I think a lot of it is bull and if lithium is good enough for Bron/Profoto/Lencarta, then that's plenty good enough for me. The advantages of lithium are very persuasive.

Turning that around though, what if Lencarta adapted their Li-on to power any studio monolight head? Could be a killer combo :)
 
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I find that statement by Innovatronix a little strange - perhaps it suffered in translation...

There are airline limits on the carriage of lithium batteries in hand luggage, but those limits are extremely generous and don’t affect the Safari Li-on and I’m confident that they don’t affect Profoto or Bron either – if they did, we would have heard about it by now.
Basically, the airline regulations are about the transport of commercial quantities, which they say that they don’t allow, but they do allow in special packaging, and they allow spares to be carried too. As for explosion/fire risk, yes that is a very real potential problem with the disposable lithium primary batteries, they use an intercalated lithium compound. Lithium-ion batteries on the other hand use metallic lithium and also have a protective circuit that limits peak voltages, it’s primarily the high peak voltages that make disposable lithium batteries dangerous.

Yes, any lithium battery would become highly dangerous if its core was to be dropped in water – but they are totally sealed, so the danger doesn't exist. The military wouldn’t use them unless they can be used safely in water. In fact the Safari can be stood in water up to but not including the charger socket…
Battery life – TBH nobody knows, and anyway it depends quite a bit on ambient temperature (they last longer in cold climates) but the one thing that we do know is that they last far longer than any other kind of battery except for lead acid, which can last a long time if it’s used heavily and not long at all if it’s neglected. Their comment about Chinese manufacture is strange, as far as I can tell nearly all lithium batteries are assembled in China. That makes sense because all of the actual lithium comes from China.

Good question, and one that Innovatronix addresses in their FAQ. Personally, I think a lot of it is bull and if lithium is good enough for Bron/Profoto/Lencarta, then that's plenty good enough for me. The advantages of lithium are very persuasive.

Turning that around though, what if Lencarta adapted their Li-on to power any studio monolight head? Could be a killer combo
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Don't start that!
Lencarta has enough problems keeping up with the demand for the Li-on:)

It will of course be on the Lencarta stand at Focus, and people can wander round and compare it with the competition, we are all in pretty much the same area.
 
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Well perhaps its mostly a cost based decision - SLA batteries are plentiful, cheap and very reliable. Went down to my local battery supplier (when I was looking at the Mini Explorer and he has replacements on the shelf from £20 for a standard SLA 'Any Orientation' version & can order versions in 6 differing physical sizes.

Multiblitz also do 2 battery packs, but can only be used with specific multi-voltage heads, as they appear to output 120v - they also use SLA batteries.

Paul
 
treeman said:
Does this go to explain anything :thinking:

From the Profoto web site:
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your guess is as good as mine, lol...doubtless makes it more expensive though! I know that profoto do have sheets of compliance that you can get to help persuade airlines that their batteries are safe to fly with.

Brilliant batteries though, the Li acuteb's are mental, so light.
 
Butler said:
Shall I assume they don't sell the kit as a kit, rather you have to buy all the bits separately then? Or am I completely overlooking something on the website? Basically just trying to work out a price for the Safari kit brand new?
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You have choices. You can either buy the flash generator for £600 plus the flash heads for £200 each, and/or the ringflash head for £250, or you can buy the kits. If you buy as a kit then you get the armoured carry bag free.
Safari Li-on 1 head kit, £800
Safari Li-on 2 head kit, £1000
Safari Li-on ringflash kit, £850
 
I just couldnt wait for the mag to come out and went with the Lencarta Safari 2 head kit.

Garry, I hear youre the man to speak to if I have any problems!
 
Butler said:
I just couldnt wait for the mag to come out and went with the Lencarta Safari 2 head kit.

Garry, I hear youre the man to speak to if I have any problems!
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You made a good choice. Yes, just give me a ring if you need any help.
 
Had my first play today...

Quick question. On each lighting stand is a stainless spigot (I think it is) attachment that the flash heads go on to, these stainless parts, even though well done up, have a small amount of play in them meaning the flash heads move even when completely tightened. They are also missing little rubber parts from the top which I think are supposed to be there, but not sure what difference this makes. Is this a fault?

Thanks in advance
 
Michael Sewell said:
Unsure as to why you should have play in the spigot once the adaptor is tightened up. The rubber tip is only there as a protector, and not all stand manufacturers use them. Besides, you would lose it within a week :D
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I have some old Elinchrom stands. There's a hard plastic tip on the spigot. On has broken. Lights on that always wobble.

I also have a bunch of Lencarta stands. None of them have plastic/rubber tips but they all do up tight.

Try rotating the head round the stand - sometimes they lock better in one orientation. If not then warp some duck tape round the spigot to pad it out.
 
Its the actual stainless bit thats a bit loose though, the heads attach to them no problem and with no play.
 
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