Outcome from making contact with local newspaper (update - now from 2 newspapers)

nigpd

nigpd

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Nigel
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I thought it would be interesting to post the response following an approach to a local newspaper

Background

I'm shooting an FA vase football match tomorrow followed by games of the same team for the rest of the season. The local newspaper have a small report from the team's matches but no photos. So I approached the newspaper to ask if they would be interested in photos from the matches for use in the paper and/or website. I also asked that if there was interest, what their standard rates are for providing images...........

The response was

"We would happily take photos from the match but, sadly, we are not in a financial position to be able to pay for them."
Regards
xxxxx xxxxxx
Sports Editor

My initial reaction is "no pay - no play". I do not want to give my work away for free

I'm just wondering if there is a "round 2" response I could make to counter their initial response in the hope of exacting a standard rate for any accepted images.

Your thoughts are welcome
 
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I'd respond with something along the lines of I regret you don't have the budget for photos to support your reports if this position changes in the future pleased don't hesitate to contact me.

And I'd include your current rates as of the date of the letter/email including the caveat that rates subject to change without notice or something along those lines, that said try and make sure you remain professional :)

Please not this is not my area of photography so nearly my educated opinion :thumbs:

Matt
MWHCVT
 
I had a similar answer from my local paper and i replied to them saying "I regret you don't have the budget for photos to support your reports,and it is a shame that you are using stock photos and making out they match shots".I got a reply the next week and came to mutual aggreement.
 
I often get this when contacting papers for the away team. If they dont have a budget then the cant pay, just a sign of the times. Personally I'd send them a portfolio of your work from a couple of past games (suitably watermarked) and ask them if they would keep you on file sould the situation change. If the team does well in the FA Vase they may well want some pics but dont expect to high a fee.
 
Just received a reply from the second local newspaper I contacted at the same time

the reply was very much along similar lines..........

"Thanks for the email and the offer.

However, I have to advise you that at present we are not paying for freelance photographs. The pictures we feature are taken by our staff photographers or provided freelance free of charge. I fully understand your request for payment, but stress we can only accept pictures on a free of charge basis at the present time.

Best regards

xxx xxxxxx
Editor"
 
Usual sort of replies. They will be interested if you have some pictures of particular value to them at which point it's worth re-approaching them again.
 
Tobers said:
Usual sort of replies. They will be interested if you have some pictures of particular value to them at which point it's worth re-approaching them again.
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It then becomes a bit of a catch 22 situation though. Why go and shoot if there isnt a market for your work. If you are going to shoot any way, well that is a different situation.

Surly its more productive to contact the publications/media outlets first, asking them what their requirements are ? At this point payment can also be discussed.

Off spec submissions will probably result in a high percentage of the above replies. 'Sorry No Funds'
 
Tugster said:
It then becomes a bit of a catch 22 situation though. Why go and shoot if there isnt a market for your work. If you are going to shoot any way, well that is a different situation.

Surly its more productive to contact the publications/media outlets first, asking them what their requirements are ? At this point payment can also be discussed.

Off spec submissions will probably result in a high percentage of the above replies. 'Sorry No Funds'
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I'm doing a team photo shoot before the match and some images from the game for the team's website. This work is paid. I just wanted to see if there would be the opportunity to sell in some images to the local press produced during the match
 
i doubt if you will ever recive money from paper for sports in that low of a class

if i were you ask them to print your website with each image keep a copy of the paper scan it or take it from there website and build up a portfolio saying you have had imagesd published in a paper

that is the best you will ever get from a local league club

i know a few photographers in hull who use to go to hull fc (rugby) and get there images published over the local press photographer who was paid by the local paper who have them on a full time wage

it is all about people seeing you that is what brings work in
 
snapzz said:
I often get this when contacting papers for the away team. If they dont have a budget then the cant pay, just a sign of the times. Personally I'd send them a portfolio of your work from a couple of past games (suitably watermarked) and ask them if they would keep you on file sould the situation change. If the team does well in the FA Vase they may well want some pics but dont expect to high a fee.
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:plusone:
 
nigpd said:
I'm doing a team photo shoot before the match and some images from the game for the team's website. This work is paid. I just wanted to see if there would be the opportunity to sell in some images to the local press produced during the match
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Make sure you make it clear to the club that they shouldn't pass on these photos to any newspaper without your permission, it is highly likely the paper will at sometime contact the club to ask for stock images, papers seem to think clubs should provide this sort of stuff FOC

The above depends on what your agreement with the club is over ownership of the team/head and shoulders pics you are about to take
 
Gary Coyle said:
Make sure you make it clear to the club that they shouldn't pass on these photos to any newspaper without your permission, it is highly likely the paper will at sometime contact the club to ask for stock images, papers seem to think clubs should provide this sort of stuff FOC

The above depends on what your agreement with the club is over ownership of the team/head and shoulders pics you are about to take
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Good point Gary. I will retain copyright and will provide licenced use of the team, head shots and in game action images solely for use on the club's website. Images are not to be passed on to third parties without prior consent of the copyright owner

Do you think I need to be any more specific than this in my dealings with the club?
 
The club are paying you so i would allow them full usage as they please, ie, program, promotional posters, website, etc, etc. the only restrictions i would insist on is they aren't allowed to pass onto any third party without your written permission.
 
Gary Coyle said:
The club are paying you so i would allow them full usage as they please, ie, program, promotional posters, website, etc, etc. the only restrictions i would insist on is they aren't allowed to pass onto any third party without your written permission.
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Good point again, Gary. I will amend my wording accordingly. Thanks for all the advice :thumbs:
 
Might be worth making sure that any images supplied to the team for their website are at too low a resolution for the paper to pinch off the team's site.
 
Nod said:
Might be worth making sure that any images supplied to the team for their website are at too low a resolution for the paper to pinch off the team's site.
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Virtually impossible. Newsprint is usually 120-150dpi, so even a basic 600px image will print out at 4". More than enough for local paper NIB.
 
Mark, thats some posh newspaper you work for, i was an apprentice printer some 36 years ago and all newsprint was 72dpi and still is today for the locals and regionals i work for, you can actually take a magnifying glass and count the dots.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Mark, thats some posh newspaper you work for, i was an apprentice printer some 36 years ago and all newsprint was 72dpi and still is today for the locals and regionals i work for, you can actually take a magnifying glass and count the dots.
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That's because you northerners are too tight to use a decent amount of ink!!
 
Frugal Mark,frugal.
 
isnt this how photography as a money earner is dying? there will always be someone willing to do it for a credit or just becuae its a hobby.....................

Well glad we are in an area that the uncle bobs have no chance of getting in.
 
isnt this how photography as a money earner is dying? there will always be someone willing to do it for a credit or just becuae its a hobby.....................

Well glad we are in an area that the uncle bobs have no chance of getting in.
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This is how ive been feeling over the past few months, ive cutback on spending every weekend of my spare time shooting games for the sake of shooting games, not making anything and spending about 8 hours of my time and petrol for it.

but you have to just keep on ploughing on, im keeping my hand in with the football over the winter, honing the skills on matches that dont really cost and keep following up leads.
Be active, find events, email organisers, find sports you havnt shot and get down and have a go so that if XYZ come and approach you asking "can you come cover my event" and youve done it before your in a position to do it and charge rather than turn it down or do a hash job.

Its hard, and i totally agree it is a catch 22, inparticular with gear, i'd love a real 300/400 prime and a d700 but i cannot justify the cost for something that at the moment makes no money. So ill make do with my dodgy sigma 70-200 and a d300 untill the time is right.

I think the most important thing that ive learned is that you dont become that uncle bob! as tempting as it is. I send my pics away for every home game for the clubs that is shoot, with a little quirky message to the sports editor who gives the exact same response as above. but likes to pay Mr Coyle when he comes down this neck of the woods! So it is BS and just dont give up and the right opportunity will come to find you!
 
This is how ive been feeling over the past few months, ive cutback on spending every weekend of my spare time shooting games for the sake of shooting games, not making anything and spending about 8 hours of my time and petrol for it.
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However i have to add this is absolutely crucial if you want to make anything of your protohraphy career because apart from your own skills, you have to create your own web of contacts and get yourself known. Ive just been a bit lazy and feeling a little deflated.
 
meatcandy89 said:
However i have to add this is absolutely crucial if you want to make anything of your protohraphy career because apart from your own skills, you have to create your own web of contacts and get yourself known. Ive just been a bit lazy and feeling a little deflated.
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Keep yer chin up fella, determination usually sees folk get where they want to get to, a little bit of luck helps but there are ways to make your own luck
 
meatcandy89 said:
However i have to add this is absolutely crucial if you want to make anything of your protohraphy career because apart from your own skills, you have to create your own web of contacts and get yourself known. Ive just been a bit lazy and feeling a little deflated.
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Had the feeling a few times, stick at it. had work pays off
 
meatcandy89 said:
However i have to add this is absolutely crucial if you want to make anything of your protohraphy career because apart from your own skills, you have to create your own web of contacts and get yourself known. Ive just been a bit lazy and feeling a little deflated.
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Absolutely correct :thumbs:

We are all guilty of letting this lapse and sometimes need a swift kick up the backside. Lack of earnings is a big spur on for anyone and if your determine to succeed then you probably will :)
 
Why not adopt a pragmatic approach? Small local rags can't/won't pay for photos, but they CAN give you a credit and a free advert - why not shovel the pics onto something like Instaproofs for any players/spectators that might want a copy, and offer the papers use of your work in return for a full credit/website link and a free small ad - that way, everybody gains!:thumbs:

I'd advise picking up the 'phone, rather than writing in!
 
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Organnyx said:
Why not adopt a pragmatic approach? Small local rags can't/won't pay for photos, but they CAN give you a credit and a free advert - why not shovel the pics onto something like Instaproofs for any players/spectators that might want a copy, and offer the papers use of your work in return for a full credit/website link and a free small ad - that way, everybody gains!:thumbs:

I'd advise picking up the 'phone, rather than writing in!
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Because most local papers are too busy offering prints themselves to advertise somebody else's work.
 
Absolutely fine - you can offer them an opportunity to broaden the number/quantity/quality of photos they have to offer by giving yours a plug too - as I said, everybody gains - if they can't be stuffed/afford to send their own staff photographer to footie matches, they gain from better "coverage" with no outlay, the photographer spreads his fame/expertise/website address in return (and perhaps makes a bob from print sales) - it's hard times for little local papers, so a bit of "mutual backscratching" could work well... the photographer could become their "unofficial staff sports photographer", gaining experience and exposure (pun!):cool:
 
Organnyx said:
Absolutely fine - you can offer them an opportunity to broaden the number/quantity/quality of photos they have to offer by giving yours a plug too - as I said, everybody gains - if they can't be stuffed/afford to send their own staff photographer to footie matches, they gain from better "coverage" with no outlay, the photographer spreads his fame/expertise/website address in return (and perhaps makes a bob from print sales) - it's hard times for little local papers, so a bit of "mutual backscratching" could work well... the photographer could become their "unofficial staff sports photographer", gaining experience and exposure (pun!):cool:
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I'm sorry, but there's so much wrong with that post that I'm not sure where to start.

No local paper is going to direct their customers elsewhere to buy prints.

Acting as an 'unofficial staffer' is a surefire way of losing a regular staffer their job.

No one reads photo credits apart from other photographers. Credit is meaningless. Unpaid publications (tear sheets) are equally meaningless in the professional world.

Photo credits don't include URLs.

Etc etc etc
 
As said, the only people who read credits is other photographers.if you see yourself in a football shot as a player you contact paper without looking who then pass them into the photographer.

It never works for photographers giving work away and never will. If papers want pictures they will pay. Simple as that
 
Organnyx said:
Absolutely fine - you can offer them an opportunity to broaden the number/quantity/quality of photos they have to offer by giving yours a plug too - as I said, everybody gains - if they can't be stuffed/afford to send their own staff photographer to footie matches, they gain from better "coverage" with no outlay, the photographer spreads his fame/expertise/website address in return (and perhaps makes a bob from print sales) - it's hard times for little local papers, so a bit of "mutual backscratching" could work well... the photographer could become their "unofficial staff sports photographer", gaining experience and exposure (pun!):cool:
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Absolute 100% utter garbage, there is no back scratching with local papers, them wont pay Tom because they see him as an easy touch who will eventually cave into the "need" to see his name in print, how do i know, well i know because the very newspapers who he has contacted and have said there is no budget are lying, how do i know they're lying, well that's because they have paid me for work ive provided for them in the past and will no doubt in the future, im not the only one they have paid, there's at least one more on here and 2 more possibly 3 pro/semi pros who i know of who have and will continue to get paid by these papers, that is until Tom or someone like him does cave in and give them freebies but im sure he wont as he sees the bigger picture.

Mate of mine sums it up perfectly, when they ask for free photos, ask them for free space for advertising in the paper, see how they react to that, you see, there is no back scratching to be done.
 
Rule of thumb. If you start off giving your images for free, you'll always be giving them for free. There are a few exceptions to this but most who offer free images will find it hard to start charging and the newspapers/publications will just seek out other "freebie" offerers.
 
I too have just been contacted by Daily Echo/Sports Pink Southampton based asking to use a couple of my photos from a recent non-league game. In which they won the league and where presented the league cup.

Been in two minds about charging, but as they say 'don't ask, don't get'
 
jimmy83 said:
I too have just been contacted by Daily Echo/Sports Pink Southampton based asking to use a couple of my photos from a recent non-league game. In which they won the league and where presented the league cup.

Been in two minds about charging, but as they say 'don't ask, don't get'
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They contacted you.. then your in the driving seat :) Just tell them your happy to supply and you will accept there standard rate ..but no free usage..
 
Studi0488 said:
isnt this how photography as a money earner is dying? there will always be someone willing to do it for a credit or just becuae its a hobby.....................

Well glad we are in an area that the uncle bobs have no chance of getting in.
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Unfortunately you get this everywhere now. I am a web designer but unfortunately there are too many people around wanting to build a portfolio and get experience so offer to do it for free. Then as a result the value of the work is pushed down.
 
KIPAX said:
They contacted you.. then your in the driving seat :) Just tell them your happy to supply and you will accept there standard rate ..but no free usage..
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Cheers Kipax,

So do you reckon wait for them to mention a price? Do you know if papers and the like are open to negotiations?
 
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