One of my photos pinched, advice required

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jimmy83

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James
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Send them an invoice - hopefully they'll pay

If they don't small claims tack of the county patents court (note not small claims court per se) for copyright violation
 
http://www.dmcdjonline.com/contact.php

The legal entity appears to be Disco Mix Club Limited. There are a few directors (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/01754509/DISCO-MIX-CLUB-LIMITED/directors-shareholders) but the shares are held by just two people.

Ring them up, ask who invoices for photo usage should be marked for the attention of.

Do not get into any discussion of whether they pay for images or not, you only want to know whose name to put on the envelope. If the conversation drifts, politely end the call and hang up.

Then send your invoice, there are a few threads that give suggested wording. Is it just on the website,or do you know if there is print usage as well?
 
Cheers guys, some great advice there. I'm pretty sure its just on their website, I could be wrong tho I doubt they would print a 1000px longest side with logo's either side to be honest.
 
Also if you've not already done so get screen shots of it in place, and quickly as now you've linked to it, if they're savvy they'll be taking the page down with that image on quick
 
MWHCVT said:
Also if you've not already done so get screen shots of it in place, and quickly as now you've linked to it, if they're savvy they'll be taking the page down with that image on quick
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Good shout, just done it.
 
one thing, going to court is the last resort. Why not get them to pay for this image, and try to build a relationship leading to more sales in the future.
 
boyfalldown said:
one thing, going to court is the last resort. Why not get them to pay for this image, and try to build a relationship leading to more sales in the future.
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This x1000 approach this well an you could end up building a long term business relationship, do it wrong and you'll be that arse who came in all guns blazing who stuck us with a bill and threatened us with court, never going to talk to him again
 
boyfalldown said:
one thing, going to court is the last resort. Why not get them to pay for this image, and try to build a relationship leading to more sales in the future.
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I don't think you're allowed to go straight to court, you have to give them the opportunity to pay first.

Invoice first, court if they don't pay.
 
Alastair said:
I don't think you're allowed to go straight to court, you have to give them the opportunity to pay first.

Invoice first, court if they don't pay.
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You are 'allowed', technically at least. However the judge will take a very dim view of you if you do. And the odds against you getting any costs at all, even in the small claims, are pretty high even if you win.

I did say it should be a very last resort though
 
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boyfalldown said:
You are 'allowed', technically at least. However the judge will take a very dim view of you if you do. And the odds against you getting any costs at all, even in the small claims, are pretty high even if you win.

I did say it should be a very last resort though
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That. I took someone to court, won, they simply shut their business, moved a few miles to new premises nearer their home and started again the next day. Took them to court again and lost, nothing to do with them, the other company...

That was £2500 and is still a sore point
 
boyfalldown said:
one thing, going to court is the last resort.
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It certainly is. This subject often comes up on Photo.Net and the number of people posting "you should get legal advice" or "you need to speak to a lawyer" amazes me (although it shouldn't I suppose as Photo.Net is a mainly American forum).

In most cases, speaking to a lawyer will cost more than any remedies you might be awarded.

Definitely a last resort.


Steve.
 
I'd say be polite (to start with at least), but businesslike and completely matter of fact and (as suggested above) find out who to invoice then send in a commercially reasonable bill. Would you be expected ask to pay of they found you inside one of their events without permission and without paying on the door etc? What if they let you in to something they were hosting but then they caught you recording their mix? Would they worry that you might not end up being a good customer and let it go? I think we know the answer.
 
I was going to email them but can only see this email contact form to send - http://www.dmcworld.com/contact.php

Do you guys reckon an email would be ok? I can't see any phone numbers on the site.
 
Look under "Physical address" on the contact age. There's a phone number and street address.

Always do this by phone call, it's the only way you can steer the conversation to avoid any debate.

Send the invoice recorded delivery. Make sure it's worded precisely, unambiguously and professionally.

Make sure you know how you want to be paid, and be very careful about your letterhead if you don't have a bank account in the name of your trading name - it's very easy to end up with a cheque you can't cash.
 
Alastair said:
Always do this by phone call, it's the only way you can steer the conversation to avoid any debate.
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I would say always do this by email... Its a great way to record any conversation. It means you can take time to think or ask advice before responding and your not put on the spot or flustered into saying somehting you later wish you hadn't..... you also cant be accused of you said this he said that... Emails record conversations and much better in cases like this... really doeasnt need the personal touch..
 
That's fine until they ignore your question "Who do I send the invoice for the attention of?", and they only respond with a long-winded "We don't pay for images" wall of text.

The phone call approach has worked for me under similar circumstances, but I can see that if you're not confident on the phone the email approach might be almost as good. Quite frankly, it doesn't really matter what's said on the phone as long as you stick to the question and avoid further debate. If you engage in any debate on whether they pay or not, you're only weakening your position. They will pay, that should be taken as absolute, the phone call is only a courtesy to speed things up by making sure that the invoice is marked for the attention of the right person.
 
Thanks Alastair both good arguments, personally I would prefer email as I would be worried I might stay the wrong thing be accident.

Alastair, can you link me to the address I can't for the the life of my find the address and phone number!
 
Alastair said:
That's fine until they ignore your question "Who do I send the invoice for the attention of?", and they only respond with a long-winded "We don't pay for images" wall
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they can do the same by phone.. worse they can say they sorted it out over the phone.

Alastair said:
The phone call approach has worked for me under similar circumstances, but I can see that if you're not confident on the phone the email approach might be almost as good.
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worked for me by email and has nothing to do with phone confidence..


end of day both ways can work.. yours, mine..possibly other ways.. i just wanted to explain the advantages of email :)
 
jimmy83 said:
Alastair, can you link me to the address I can't for the the life of my find the address and phone number!
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See my link given above (post #3), then click on "Physical address" just above the contact form. I can't get a link to work that goes directly to the physical address.
 
Alastair said:
See my link given above (post #3), then click on "Physical address" just above the contact form. I can't get a link to work that goes directly to the physical address.
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Ah yes, missed that cheers!

I appreciate your advice, but I'm going to email them instead. Would you mind reading the email before I send it?
 
Just to give you guys a heads up...this is still ongoing!

They said they will get in contact with me on Thursday! A fellow photographer on facebook has said I could find their provider for the site and file a dmca request for copyright infringing. They have since taken my photo down but I do have screenshots of it.
 
Just pick up the phone and be polite, do what was suggested above and get an invoice in the post. Why are they getting in touch on Thursday - you've allowed them to argue why they're not going to pay, haven't you? :banghead:

Forget the DMCA, it's a distraction - all the more pointless if the image has already been taken down :stop:
 
I have phoned them and emailed they said they will get back to me on Thursday I've asked them for £250 but if they can offer me somewhere near that price I will be happy.

I will keep you updated.
 
jimmy83 said:
I have phoned them and emailed they said they will get back to me on Thursday I've asked them for £250 but if they can offer me somewhere near that price I will be happy.

I will keep you updated.
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How did you reach that price? You've said it wasn't in print, it was the one web page only. Others may disagree, but I think you're over-optimistic with your rate there.
 
wow £250, I would charged normally £40 for a photo for media use, seems a bit steep but then again better to start high and end up lower! Or maybe I need to up my prices?
 
250 quid? sorry but thats just mad... I charge 40 for web use but if someone used it like this.. I add 25 admin fee..

Sorry but you will get absoloutly nowhere with that... they will be laughing and put your invoice in the bin...
 
They might also tell the nice people at HMR&C about your little extra earner and they could (maybe unlikely but they could...) really ruin your day.
 
Nod said:
They might also tell the nice people at HMR&C about your little extra earner and they could (maybe unlikely but they could...) really ruin your day.
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IIRC you have 3 months to notify HMRC of a new source of income.
 
mattyg said:
It used to be that way but not anymore
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Blimey, I only did my tax exams in 2011! I specialise in Corporation Tax now so I'm a bit rusty on personal taxes! What are the new rules? 30 days?
 
Llamaman said:
Blimey, I only did my tax exams in 2011! I specialise in Corporation Tax now so I'm a bit rusty on personal taxes! What are the new rules? 30 days?
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As soon as possible is the official line. All references to 3 months have gone. I think it changed in 2010

However I also believe they changed something else that you had to register before the end of the tax year. But you would also get fined if you owed them money.

I think asap is the best option


EDIT:

HMRC request that self-employment is notified immediately so that the individual is registered for Class 2 NIC without delay.

If you do not register immediately you must notify within six months of the end of the tax year in which the business commenced to avoid possible penalties. So, if the business started during the 2012-13 tax year you have until 5 October 2013 to inform HMRC.
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HMRC, Clear as mud
 
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Mrrikki said:
wow £250, I would charged normally £40 for a photo for media use, seems a bit steep but then again better to start high and end up lower! Or maybe I need to up my prices?
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If the negotiation is AFTER the photo is published, it's fair enough to go in high imo.
 
furq said:
If the negotiation is AFTER the photo is published, it's fair enough to go in high imo.
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If you go in looking to negotiate you've already lost.
If you go in looking for several multiples of the going rate, you've already lost.

Go in looking and sounding credible, and you'll get paid. That means going in targeting a realistic industry rate in a professional, no nonsense manner.


Ok, so they ignore your unreasonable invoice, what happens next? - you won't get a court to enforce an unreasonable invoice. The company can now ignore you with impunity.

And if you haven't sent them an invoice at this stage you've ignored the advice already given - and your stuck in the position of still negotiating whether they'll pay you anything at all. Which you were specifically advised to avoid.
 
You can't enforce the invoice though. You can sue for damages, but you'd need to prove that they had caused damage to that amount. If you normally charge less then you'll lose.
 
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