One for the vinyl fans possibly...

srichards

Suspended / Banned
Messages
10,968
Name
Suz
Edit My Images
Yes
I was idly wondering whether using ilfotol wetting agent after cleaning records with a mix of warm water, bit of vinegar and a few drops of washing up liquid would be a good idea? Whatever is used to clean can't leave any kind of residue. The cleaning machine I'm looking at comes with a cleaner liquid but most people that have used it said it leaves a residue, hence trying to find an alternative. A two stage clean seems sensible to me.
 
Is it one of these you're using Suz?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knosti-Disco-Static-Record-Cleaning/dp/B00793YMKK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414332372&sr=8-1&keywords=knosti record cleaning machine

It's what I use. The fluid is good for reducing / removing static, but a second clean with distilled water is ESSENTIAL to avoid residue.

That's what I was looking at getting :thumbs:

I don't seem to have much of an issue with static as I use a microfibre cloth across the playing surface. There's only the odd record that clings onto the playing mat like poop to a blanket.
 
I'm a bit anal about my vinyl. Every record, even new, goes through the cleaning process and then straight into a Nagaoka sleeve.

I also use an anti-static brush and take very good care of my stylus.
 
Might try a few different things and see which works the best.

Mine are just in original sleeves. Don't think any have been cleaned ever so years of crud will be on them.
 
Friend's cat used to walk across their record deck while it was playing. She wasn't popular.

Personally I'd keep the lid closed :)

Ugh. The state of some albums I've just found is making me wince as well!
 
Last edited:
I mix my own; 25% Isopropyl alcohol, 75% water.

The key is that you do not want to leave any crud so it should be technical or lab grade Isopropyl and steam distilled or triple deionized water. Tap water is best avoided.

Wetting agent is good but I don't know about Ilfotol. Laura Dearborn's book has a lot of info on solution and notes that Kodak's Kodaflow must not be used as it contains other chemicals that leave a residue behind. Apparently Kodak recommends against using it too. Washing up liquid shouldn't be used as it contains salt. I have run out of wetting agent and until I can find another source for a very clean product I am just not using any.

That Keith Monks machine looks rather good. I made my own from plans sold via HiFi News years ago and it still works well. I think it was sold by Moss Marketing and inside is a vacuum cleaner motor so its a bit noisy - sounds like a plane taking off!

Like Simon I wouldn't play a new record until its cleaned as there is usually still release agent left in the bottom of the grooves from the press and after each clean they go into a fresh sleeve. I use a carbon fibre brush too.



Hope that helps

Mark
 
As I am out of wetting agent I just googled for info and it seems that Kodak's Photoflow is ok but Kodaflow is not.

I bought some water from a chemical company last time but coincidentally one of the recipes I just goggled said Halfords top up water is fine so when mine runs out I will probably use that.

Mark
 
Glad the Halford's water is ok as it's cheap and I'm lazy :)
 
Also you can collect. Water is so heavy that I seem to recall postage was more than the product last time!
 
Now I love my vinyl but I was once told never to clean my records! I do keep them all in Nagaoka sleeves though. You've all got me thinking now.
 
There seem to be lot of disagreement about clean/not clean, wet playing/dry playing.

I'm also confused by diamond styluses wearing out at all. It's diamond. It's hard as hell. How can it wear out?!
 
There seem to be lot of disagreement about clean/not clean, wet playing/dry playing.

I'm also confused by diamond styluses wearing out at all. It's diamond. It's hard as hell. How can it wear out?!
I've often wondered the same - diamond against vinyl - you would think it'd never wear out. Though when you consider what it does, then maybe it's to be expected...there are pretty big forces involved given that they act on an incredibly small area.
 
You are all worrying too much! Breath on it. Wipe on belly part of a t-shirt (cotton obviously) and out back on the turntable. Job done. But then again if you purposefully scratch records when using them like me, your not too bothered about the static. And you definitely don't want to see what comes out of a groove on a dedicated scratch record after months of use!!!!
 
Thought this might be of interest to the vinyl junkies on here. Its actually from the Laura Dearborn book I mentioned before but I came across quoted on a website and as it was easy to cut and paste I thought I would put it here. I love the way the second paragraph shows the scale of vinyl and it does show why we need to keep them clean!

Visualize the fineness of a record groove, and then consider that it combines two distinct channels of information, each with completely different modulations. Some of the signal modulations in the groove are on the same order of size as a wavelength of light, which means the stylus has to “read” a signal as small as a millionth of an inch… For the half a mile or so of record groove per LP side, the stylus must precisely trace abrupt changes in the direction of the undulating groove, sometimes traveling at speeds several times the acceleration of gravity, without ever losing contact with either wall or blurring together the modulations. Groove friction heats the stylus up to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and the groove vinyl momentarily liquefies each time the stylus passes over it. (This is why one should let a record rest for at least 30 minutes before replaying it, and preferably for 24 hours.) Even though the cartridge tracking weight is commonly set at only about 1.5 grams, the entire weight is supported on the minute edges of the stylus. As a result, the downforce applied to the groove on a per-square-inch basis is several TONS. Combine these extreme conditions of weight, heat, speed, and need for exquisite manoeuvrability, then add in the scale of environmental vibrations that interfere with the stylus as it retrieves the music from the groove, and it’s extraordinary that ANY music (as opposed to noise) is heard through an audio system.

Using the inch scale, a stylus is 30 feet long, affixed to a cantilever 50 feet thick and 275 feet long, which extends from a cartridge body 2,000 feet long, sitting 80 feet above the record. The tonearm, 450 feet in diameter, crosses 1,500 feet above the record from its pivot point four miles away… The stylus downforce temporarily deforms the vinyl by as much as an inch (20 times the size of a violin harmonic), leaving a stylus footprint on the groove wall measuring 10 inches long and 4 inches wide. A typical midrange signal demands that the stylus move 16 inches from peak to peak of the wave form. A deep bass note 10 dB louder requires the stylus to move 10 feet 6 inches whereas for a high-frequency harmonic at a very low sound level , the stylus must move only 0.68 inch. Even the simplest piece of music is likely to contain, at any one time, enormous numbers of frequencies at different levels.
 
Very interesting Mark, though not sure it clarifies the need to clean...can a cleaning process get into the groove in the same way that the stylus does (or rather should)? Is a good quality tonearm with a correctly set up cartridge/stylus not the best tool to get into the groove, scoop out any muck and keep it clean? I don't know the answer to this, just saying it's not clear cut to me (so on that basis I do nothing!).
 
Visualize the fineness of a record groove, and then consider that it combines two distinct channels of information, each with completely different modulations. Some of the signal modulations in the groove are on the same order of size as a wavelength of light, which means the stylus has to “read” a signal as small as a millionth of an inch… For the half a mile or so of record groove per LP side, the stylus must precisely trace abrupt changes in the direction of the undulating groove, sometimes traveling at speeds several times the acceleration of gravity, without ever losing contact with either wall or blurring together the modulations.

OK, I have some problems here... for a start, "traveling at speeds several times the acceleration of gravity" is nonsense, as an acceleration is not a speed. I'm also a bit surprised at the assertion of "a signal as small as a millionth of an inch". Consider this quick calculation (which I may have got wrong, hence the point of writing it!): the extreme case is the inner groove of an LP, approx 5 inches in diameter. Circumference is pi*d, or 15". It rotates at 33 rpm, so one rotation per 2 secs. In one second therefore it travels around 7.5". Roughly the highest frequency most of us can hear is of the order of 20 KHz, call it 30 KHz for the audiophiles. By my calculations a wavelength of 30KHz under these circumstances maps onto 250 microns, more than a thousand times longer than the wavelength of light (400 to 700 nanometres), and 250 times longer than a millionth of an inch.
 
Even though I suspect she is writing some guilded tosh in places I still like the idea of a record player constructed on the inch scale :D
 
My brain hurts......:thinking: Thank got for the i-pod
 
My brain hurts......:thinking: Thank got for the i-pod
Dig out your vinyl Andy, you know you want to :D And that's records not your gimp suit :runaway:
 
Used a laser thermometer on the stylus and the groove had just played. Normal ambient temperature. I think any increase in temperature is entirely down to warmth generated by the motor in the deck.... base board was 23C. Vinyl was 22.5 to 22.9. 350f in the groove sounds like complete spheres ...I'd expect to find some noticeable increase even with a blunt tool like me!
 
Dig out your vinyl Andy, you know you want to :D And that's records not your gimp suit :runaway:

That gimp suit fits just as well now as it did the day I bought it... I have photos somewhere... let me see if I can find them.
 
Used a laser thermometer on the stylus and the groove had just played. Normal ambient temperature. I think any increase in temperature is entirely down to warmth generated by the motor in the deck.... base board was 23C. Vinyl was 22.5 to 22.9. 350f in the groove sounds like complete spheres ...I'd expect to find some noticeable increase even with a blunt tool like me!
The record burn is very limited if using quality stylus and correctly set up. The ahh and fffffressssssh scratching on turntablist's records produces limited burn despite a continual back and forth movement. So not sold on that. Also if you use SERATO (analogue to digital) then you can look at the oscillation waveform and see the damage that the burns cause. 1-2years of repetitive use for the 1-8mins of the record and minimum damage.

Audiophile geeks would no doubt be turning but for the average collector nothing to worry about for listening to an album on repeat. More worries about the old 45s players that drop vinyl upon vinyl[emoji16]
 
Just back in... @Threeracers my post above wasn't a dig at you, I did mean to emphasise that the para was a quote but was under pressure to go out, sorry! Also I realised that my calculation was fine for a pure 30 KHz sine wave, but I suspect there will be shorter "features" when you overlay multiple frequencies. Doubt it would be a factor > 250, though! Interested to read some of the other comments.
 
Has anyone actually filmed a stylus in a record groove with a high speed high definition camera attached to a microscope? I'd be very curious to see what it gets up to.
 
Just back in... @Threeracers my post above wasn't a dig at you,.....

No worries Chris, I didn't think it was.

With regard to her book I cannot claim to fully understand the technical side but she is very highly respected in her field and I am sure it would have been shot down in flames if it were wrong. That passage was re quoted on another high end audio page so I am sure someone would have picked it up if it were wrong by now.

Mark
 
can someone just recommend a site that sells players? Im looking for one at the moment, nothing special, just a player and a couple of speakers will be fine up to a couple hundred quid?
 
can someone just recommend a site that sells players? Im looking for one at the moment, nothing special, just a player and a couple of speakers will be fine up to a couple hundred quid?
Are you after a record deck?
 
Back
Top