OMD/M43 vs D7000/D300s

bl0at3r

bl0at3r

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Alan
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Okay, imagine you had around £1000 to spend and you were already covered for a pocket friendly, lightweight m43 body and pancake lens (GX1&14-42PZ for sake of argument)....

Also for sake of argument imagine you were happy with the GX1 for most things but just wondered if the images would be easier to capture and more fun with a DSLR in some situations.

Would you...

a. Stick with m43 and buy an OMD & 12-50mm kit in addition, which will give you a slightly better sensor and noise performance, higher fps, EVF, interchangeability between existing lenses and both bodies.

b. Just buy a couple more lenses for the GX1 - it is a fairly competent all rounder.

c. Buy a D7000/D300s with a kit lens to compliment the GX1 and for use when weight/size is not an issue and an optical viewfinder and 1/8000 shutter would be useful.


I don't have a particular style but do favour wider focal lengths (have never shot anything over about 150mm) and prefer natural light to flash so better noise handling is important, I also enjoy taking pictures of the nephews and pets.
 
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Never used the D7000/300 or Panasonic GX1, but I do use OM-D, Pens & Olympus DSLRs.
Just to throw you another option, have you considered a used OM-D + 12-50mm
Provided it's not a grey import, and the seller had the original receipt, you will benefit from the remains of the 2 year warranty. That should give you some peace of mind.
With the remaining savings, you could add a used 9-18mm since you seem to have a preference for the wider lenses.

I'd avoid the 7-14mm with the OM-D unless you've had a chance to try out the combination first, as there seems to be some purple flaring issues with reflections from the new sensor.

This presumably wouldn't be an issue with your Panasonic body. I carry the 7-14mm on an E-P2, with a longer lens on the OM-D, which gives you the best of both worlds, other than needing 2 types of battery.
 
bl0at3r said:
but just wondered if the images would be easier to capture and more fun with a DSLR in some situations.
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What would a DSLR bring that would make things easier and more fun?

The only thing the GX1 lacks is a leading edge sensor (and a viewfinder for my crud eyes). Either GH3 or OMD have one - and you can benefit from using the same lenses....
 
Having had all of the cameras you mention (GX1, OM-D, D300 and D7000) I would do one of these:

1) Wait for the new Olympus PEN which is basically a slightly smaller but potentially better version of the OM-D
2) Buy a Fuji X100S (or X100 if you want to spend less)

Of your options, I would probably go for option 1 but I'd sell the GX1 as there really is no point having that and the OM-D (I say this having had both at the same time and then selling the GX1). I then sold all my 4/3 gear and got the X100S which I love with a passion bordering on insanity!
 
You missed out on the decent built in body IS system so all lenses with benefit with the OM-D ;) personally id go with the OM-D as i had similar decision but thought id commit to Canon DSLR rather than M43..
I sold my M43 and found i was never bothering too use my Canon gear so ive gone with M43 and selling my Canon gear :thinking:
 
Sell the GX-1 and buy the EP-5 + the new VF. Without the VF is small and easy to carry as your GX1, with the VF is as competent as the EM-5 (lacks weather sealing though).

Alternatively get an X-E1 body is similar to EP-5 in size but you gain a better sensor and a built in view finder, although no collapsible zoom.

I went for the X-E1 having had the GX1 for a few weeks some time ago, having kept a K-5 and having tried the OM-D in a store.
 
I have the X-E1 and the OM-D in regards too them 2 i find the X-E1 does have the edge overall on photos themselves, It has a pop up flash that you can bounce if needed and you can reduce size AF point unlike the OM-D unless im missing where the option too do that on the OM-D :shrug:

But the OM-D has much bigger selection of lenses, still provides great quality photos and its much quicker too focus..
If your shooting still stuff between them it'd be very hard choice yet if want something capturing that moves personally then its the OM-D would be my choice then.
 
Hmm, I guess that all makes sense, thanks - I just can't put my finger on it..

I rarely take pictures of pets and babies but in the last few weeks I have tried to capture cats, a dog and a Damien - all three I was struggling with available light, shutter speed and or shutter lag, focus speed and iso noise - even with the 20mm wide open.

A large number of shots had smeary faces where they had zoomed off just at the wrong moment.

Fairly sure this has nothing to do with the lack of viewfinder, but maybe my technique was lacking?

Can't help thinking a DSLR and the GX1 would be best of both worlds - small and light GX1 with the 14mm and 20mm pancakes and a DSLR with 16-85 or similar?

Or the OMD with a 12-35 and a bunch of other m43 lenses....

Or...
 
The 20mm will kill you dead on focus speed.... It is known as a slow to focus lens.

The 12-35 on the other hand ;)
 
bl0at3r said:
Hmm, I guess that all makes sense, thanks - I just can't put my finger on it..

I rarely take pictures of pets and babies but in the last few weeks I have tried to capture cats, a dog and a Damien - all three I was struggling with available light, shutter speed and or shutter lag, focus speed and iso noise - even with the 20mm wide open.

A large number of shots had smeary faces where they had zoomed off just at the wrong moment.

Fairly sure this has nothing to do with the lack of viewfinder, but maybe my technique was lacking?

Can't help thinking a DSLR and the GX1 would be best of both worlds - small and light GX1 with the 14mm and 20mm pancakes and a DSLR with 16-85 or similar?

Or the OMD with a 12-35 and a bunch of other m43 lenses....

Or...
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Alan, I had this problem taking photos of my daughter's cats with the E-M5 & P20. She lives in Sheffield in, well ....... one of those small dark northern terraced houses - tiny windows, so not much light, auto-focussing was a nightmare.

Until I hit on the solution - flash - I stuck on my new old nissin 360 manual flash (£3.60 from eBay - yes really!!) pointed up to bounce off the ceiling, used back button focussing to set the focus in the zone that the cats were diving around in, and then shot away.

The flash lit up & froze the little bu%%ers perfectly :thumbs:
 
bl0at3r said:
Okay, imagine you had around £1000 to spend and you were already covered for a pocket friendly, lightweight m43 body and pancake lens (GX1&14-42PZ for sake of argument)....

Also for sake of argument imagine you were happy with the GX1 for most things but just wondered if the images would be easier to capture and more fun with a DSLR in some situations.

Would you...

a. Stick with m43 and buy an OMD & 12-50mm kit in addition, which will give you a slightly better sensor and noise performance, higher fps, EVF, interchangeability between existing lenses and both bodies.

b. Just buy a couple more lenses for the GX1 - it is a fairly competent all rounder.

c. Buy a D7000/D300s with a kit lens to compliment the GX1 and for use when weight/size is not an issue and an optical viewfinder and 1/8000 shutter would be useful.


I don't have a particular style but do favour wider focal lengths (have never shot anything over about 150mm) and prefer natural light to flash so better noise handling is important, I also enjoy taking pictures of the nephews and pets.
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I don't get on well with the D7000 and don't much like the Jpegs from it, in normal use. And ... the kit lens is nothing special, but already your budget is dented.
I'd go for (if I were you) a G5 maybe? For the handling, newness and all-round useability. Sticking with m4/3rds but shelling out a thousand pounds for the e-M5 is never in my thinking. ... aah, no I wouldn't.
Get the 45mm if you haven't already.
Get the Sigma 30mm too.
Get the 40-150 since everyone needs one.
You still have £600 left to spend!
The only fly in the ointment is the not-as-good-as-Olympus-VF-2 EVF available for your GX1.
 
Thanks Les good idea, Chris and Ulfric, I already had an OMD just before Xmas for a couple of months. Andy, I agree the P20 is a lazy focuser but is the 12-35 really that much faster?

Sneaks off to look for pictures of the 12-35 on a GX1 :naughty:

What I want is a rangefinder style body with optical vf, 1/8000 shutter, OMD or GH3 sensor - perhaps the GX2?
 
bl0at3r said:
By the time you have one of the limited range of large nex lenses on it you may as well have a DSLR - same goes for OMD and 12-35 IMHO
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A bit of an extreme view, me thinks. The Nex 7 is such a small thing that it's always going to be smaller than a DSLR and if it isn't I'd like to know which DSLR is smaller. Same for the OMD too IMVHO.

You seem to flit between cameras and systems a lot so maybe it's time to think about settling for at least a while? After all the camera and lens is just the tool that you use and these days almost any tool with the spec that enables you to shoot how and what you want will easily be good enough.
 
woof woof said:
A bit of an extreme view, me thinks. The Nex 7 is such a small thing that it's always going to be smaller than a DSLR and if it isn't I'd like to know which DSLR is smaller. Same for the OMD too IMVHO.
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It's not about being smaller, i wont argue they are smaller - the difference is between being pocketable and not....

My GX1 with 14/20mm lens will fit in a jacket pocket ergo it is pocketable, even with the pancakes the OMD will not, therefore you need to take a bag of some sort, if you are taking a bag then you may as well take a DSLR with one lens fitted... I think :)



You seem to flit between cameras and systems a lot so maybe it's time to think about settling for at least a while? After all the camera and lens is just the tool that you use and these days almost any tool with the spec that enables you to shoot how and what you want will easily be good enough.
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I have some form of mental problem although I'm too mental to know which one :D

I wish I could settle on one system, I have an affection for m43 and have done since the 1st cameras but sometimes my mind wanders. As you say every camera will take decent shots these days, I just wish you didn't have to compromise on features with one system or another. :bonk:
 
bl0at3r said:
What I want is a rangefinder style body with optical vf, 1/8000 shutter, OMD or GH3 sensor - perhaps the GX2?
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That is the olympus pen e-p5 as suggested earlier ;)
 
bl0at3r said:
I wish I could settle on one system, I have an affection for m43 and have done since the 1st cameras but sometimes my mind wanders. As you say every camera will take decent shots these days, I just wish you didn't have to compromise on features with one system or another. :bonk:
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I have a similar issue and have tried many different cameras over the last couple of years. I actually enjoying buying them (used) and trying out different cameras as it is part of the interest and doesn't really cost me much but I would prefer it if I just stuck with one if I am honest although I do keep gravitating back to DSLRs.
 
bl0at3r said:
What I want is a rangefinder style body with optical vf, 1/8000 shutter, OMD or GH3 sensor - perhaps the GX2?
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What I want is...

RF style body, an EVF will do but one with a technology that doesn't shine a torch in my eye.
Cutting edge sensor, not a Panasonic rehash of something that was at best average 2-5 years ago.
Good DR.
ISO 100 and reasonable higher ISO performance.
1/8000 shutter speed.
Fully articulated rear screen that can be turned to the body.

I don't believe that Panasonic or Olympus will launch such a camera in the next 5 years. What I might get is...

RF style with EVF that shines a torch in my eye and is unusable for genuine low light use.
Cutting edge sensor is possible, I hope.
Good DR is again possible.
ISO 100 is doubtful, sadly, and the base will probably be 160 or even 200. Damn Them.
1/4000.
Fixed or possibly tilting screen.

I'm going to give Panny/Oly a few more months, possibly a year and if they're true to form and don't produce I'll get a Nex 6 and a few lenses and will carry on mostly using legacy lenses.
 
vrapan said:
Alternatively get an X-E1 body is similar to EP-5 in size but you gain a better sensor and a built in view finder, although no collapsible zoom.
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I really fancy a Fuji but two things put me off...

I can't get past having a base ISO of 200 for RAW. I know that the numbers probably aren't right and that the JPEG's are lovely but I want to shot RAW and keep the shutter speed down enough to be able to shoot with wide aperture lenses in good light without juggling ND's. Buying nice f1.4's and using them at f5.6 doesn't interest me.

I'm also put off but the fact that Shergar would be easier to find than a Fuji.
 
But the 1.4 is as much about shooting in low light as it is narrow depth of field. Not sure the technology is going to help evf's stop shining a torch in your eye, it is after all a mini tv screen that uses light to produce an image...

Why not buy a refurb fuji and try it, you'll lose very little if you sell and it'll put your mind at test one way or the ither
 
Soulman said:
But the 1.4 is as much about shooting in low light as it is narrow depth of field.
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Of course, and conversely wide apertures aren't just for low light as they can also be a creative choice and normally the smaller the format the wider the lens and the wider the aperture you need to make shallow DoF obvious for display screen and small print images so arguably wider aperture lenses are more of a requirement with MFT and APS-C systems and yet it's these smaller systems that are increasingly hobbled with 1/4000 second max shutter speeds and increasingly high base ISO's, a double whammy. ND's cure the problem but it means putting them on for one shot and taking them off for the next and I personally find them a PITA.

Soulman said:
Not sure the technology is going to help evf's stop shining a torch in your eye, it is after all a mini tv screen that uses light to produce an image...
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Why not? There are display technologies that don't emit light and others that don't emit any significant amount of light whereas what we have in cameras at the moment is technology that does emit light and often way too much for genuine low light shooting. I'm not talking about night vision here and enhancing an image that isn't visible to the human eye, I just want the camera to display what my eye can see without shining a torch into my eye, ruining night vision and making the camera unusable for more than one shot.

Soulman said:
Why not buy a refurb fuji and try it, you'll lose very little if you sell and it'll put your mind at test one way or the ither
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I have thought about it but I just seem to have a mental block when faced with the idea of ordering to try and probably send back. At least there is a Sony Shop an hours drive from me but God knows where I'd find a Fuji, let alone a Samsung. I can't even be confident of finding a top end Olympus or Panasonic either without an hours drive or one and a half hours train travel.

I may be hard to please but my response is to wait for a camera that I think is capable of meeting my needs rather than buy and endless stream of cameras I'll very probably be disappointed with and end up getting rid of after just a few weeks. Not that anyone would do that :D
 
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woof woof said:
I may be hard to please but my response is to wait for a camera that I think is capable of meeting my needs rather than buy and endless stream of cameras I'll very probably be disappointed with and end up getting rid of after just a few weeks. Not that anyone would do that :D
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Why the need for a Rangefinder body? All other requirements are met by a DSLR aren't they.
 
A RF style is more likely to fit in a pocket or smaller bag.

My GF1 v G1 for example. Although you'd think the GF1 isn't really that much smaller than the G1 it is and is smaller to the extent that it makes a big difference. Taking away the hump and grip really makes a difference.

Plus of course my perfectly formed nose is more likely to remain perfectly formed when not pressed up against the back of a DSLR.
 
Spend £1000 on a trip somewhere really interesting and take pictures with the kit you've got. That will be far more memorable than getting more kit.
 
Tobers said:
Spend £1000 on a trip somewhere really interesting and take pictures with the kit you've got. That will be far more memorable than getting more kit.
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Says the guy who already have my 2nd dream camera: Sony RX1. :p


What I'd like to see for micro43 is similar to Alan's.

- RF style body, I prefer optical view finders, the hybrid in X-Pro1 looks great, just need a more universal mount.
- Good AF speed
- Cutting edge sensor
- Good DR.
- ISO 100 and reasonable higher ISO performance.
- Fully articulated rear screen that can be turned to the body to prevent it from getting scratched.
- perhaps a 8-15mm UWA lens that has filter threads.

When those are met, I'll happily go micro43. With: Panny 12-35 as main walkabout lens. Can't say no to f2.8 at only 300g :D

Otherwise I'd get a small camera to always have on me, the Fuji x100s is top of my list at the moment. But won't mind a Leica M or Sony RX1 if I win the lottery.
 
woof woof said:
Plus of course my perfectly formed nose is more likely to remain perfectly formed when not pressed up against the back of a DSLR.
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My nose is naturally bent, guess I must be a natural photographer (although the evidence in the photos I take doesn't quite back that up!)
 
Damn nearly perfect (on paper), I just really don't like the design of the Panasonic. P5 looks with built in viewfinder would have been great. Ill pop into the olly roadshow in London tomorrow to handle the p5 hopefully and see how it is with the vf4.

But got to admit rx1 is still telling me get me instead :)
 
The EP5 has a price of 900£ body only!!! How can that be when you can get an x-e1 with the rather great 18-55 for a tenner less and you get a very good built in vf that does not add extra bulk on the camera. Price is off the hook far as I am concerned and I actually like it .
 
vrapan said:
The EP5 has a price of 900£ body only!!! How can that be when you can get an x-e1 with the rather great 18-55 for a tenner less and you get a very good built in vf that does not add extra bulk on the camera. Price is off the hook far as I am concerned and I actually like it .
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Cost/price/expensive all relative really. Isn't the x-e1 a bit slow to focus? It may be cheaper but if you have to judge and shoot and pray when the moment is there it is a bit pointless as well. Not saying that the p5 is better, heck it isn't even released yet. But the Fuji do have a bit of reputation for slow focus. For me I want something reliable to focus each and every time but not carry my 24-70 around (well it was stolen anyway) all the time.
 
bl0at3r said:
Hmm, I guess that all makes sense, thanks - I just can't put my finger on it..

I rarely take pictures of pets and babies but in the last few weeks I have tried to capture cats, a dog and a Damien - all three I was struggling with available light, shutter speed and or shutter lag, focus speed and iso noise - even with the 20mm wide open.

A large number of shots had smeary faces where they had zoomed off just at the wrong moment.

Fairly sure this has nothing to do with the lack of viewfinder, but maybe my technique was lacking?

Can't help thinking a DSLR and the GX1 would be best of both worlds - small and light GX1 with the 14mm and 20mm pancakes and a DSLR with 16-85 or similar?

Or the OMD with a 12-35 and a bunch of other m43 lenses....

Or...
Click to expand...

The D7000 would definitely be better in terms of tracking AF but noise performance would be I'd guess around 1 stop better so if your struggling at f/1.7 on the GX1 you'd probabley need to use prime lenses.

If you really want to see a significant boost in low light performance I might consider a FF DSLR, I'v seen used copies of the D700 for around £800-900 in decent condition.
 
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