Old/Vintage equipment and value as the years go by?

travellingcello

travellingcello

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I was just wondering about the value of manual focus lenses in particular and the value of them a few years down the line.

I've only really found out about manual focus lenses and film equipment over the least year or so (although now I would say I know a fair bit!) and from what I've read I'm led to believe that the value of MF lenses have jumped up over the last few years as more and more people are looking for MF lenses to use on their digital equipment.

I'm wondering whether anybody has any thoughts on what might happen in the future to the value of our MF lenses? I presume they can only go up but have we passed the initial rush already?

I'm not talking so much about Leica lenses which only really go up in value, and I am particularly interested if anybody has any thoughts on the value of the OM system.

Who's been around long enough to have witnessed the overall change in value of MF lenses?
 
Doubt they will be worth much in 50 years time, unless you have a very rare version.
Nikon and Leica are the main collectable brands, others less so, although I wish I'd kept my NC2000, in years to come that could be quite collectable in good condition.

Look at the value of some LF lenses/cameras made 100 years ago, some are worth thousands, others nothing.
 
Old lenses dived in price as film systems went out of fashion, there's been a bounce in value in the last two years when m4/3 systems took off and adapters allowed pretty much any lens to be used. It's not been a general ongoing rise in value - just a bounce, and there isn't a reason I can think of why there should be an ongoing appreciation.

The exceptions will be good examples of rare and/or desirable lenses. But that was always the case.
 
The MF lenses value going up may have something to do with their larger image circle that make them easily usable as a poor man tilt/shift lenses on DSLRs with smaller sensors. I use my Pentacon 6 lenses with tilt adapter on Nikon for example and this combo costs less than 150 pounds in some cases so comparing to Nikon T/S lenses it's very affordable. And there is a resurgence of interest in the film nowadays as well with lots of affordable MF cameras now on evil bay...

Plus some of the well made MF give a truly spectacular digital rendition - I find my CLA's CZJ Biometar 120mm for Pentacon 6 to be the best portrait lens (although on a slightly longer side) and fantastically sharp (by modern day standards). It resolves better than Nikkor 50mm f/1.4, is multicoated and it only cost me 60 pounds ;-)

I am not saying that this price rising will stay - it will probably dissipate and go away to some degree.
 
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Alexey.. I think the OP is referring to MF as manual focussing, which is slightly confusing as convention would use MF for medium format. The medium format marketplace is slightly different.
 
:bonk:

How did I not spotted this?!!! I so got used to MF as in medium format....

Alastair said:
Alexey.. I think the OP is referring to MF as manual focussing, which is slightly confusing as convention would use MF for medium format. The medium format marketplace is slightly different.
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Manual focus medium format are also definitely appreciating in price ;)

The higher end collectable stuff - 35mm, medium format, large format - is definitely becoming the interest of collectors, many of which are based in China. That certainly seems to be the opinion of dealers for that sort of stuff.

The more useable, bog standard prime lenses have definitely shot up in price thanks to micro 4/3rds and lens adapters. The thing is though, I reckon most of those people buy them, use them for a bit, they are lovely but they begin to get bored of it and only a few really keep using them as regular lenses. The vast majority don't use them for anything but occasional use, due to their limitations. So I'm not 100% convinced the prices will hold steady.

But there is a general continued interest in film cameras as well - the good ones will always hold their value, but the "classic" first film camera choices are getting a bit long in the tooth now. Even the venerable K1000 is beginning to get very old, and the first generation of electronic cameras are also beginning to get very elderly (and failure rates will only increase).
 
value tends to be limited to the highest quality or the rarest items. with the highest value placed on the Rare low production high quality items.
The popular market place has never produced a valuable legacy.
Strange and idiosyncratic items also have a novelty value.
Film will no longer be available in ten years time, so will not be a factor.
 
Thanks for your replies everyone.... Film not available in 10 years? Sounds likely I suppose but who would have thought it would have lasted till 2012 ? And with a resurgence with lomo photography and all that i wouldn't be too sure it will die out so easily.

Well the reason I asked this was because I have an Olympus 50mm 1.2 and am unsure whether to keep it - it is unusual and I think quite hard to find I think.....
 
travellingcello said:
Thanks for your replies everyone.... Film not available in 10 years? Sounds likely I suppose but who would have thought it would have lasted till 2012 ? And with a resurgence with lomo photography and all that i wouldn't be too sure it will die out so easily.

Well the reason I asked this was because I have an Olympus 50mm 1.2 and am unsure whether to keep it - it is unusual and I think quite hard to find I think.....
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People have been predicting the death of film for a while now. Will it be here in 10 years? Who knows. I think we may still have B&W film available but perhaps not colour. I also wouldn't be surprised if Kodak (with all of their current troubles) and Fuji (with their history of discontinuations) were not well out of the game by then.
 
A ten year prediction.. Portra 400 and Ektar, probbaly not much else on the colour front in retail volumes, maybe someone in the Far East will continue with some everyday emulsions.. And I have some doubts about commercial longevity of Ektar (it's a nice emulsion, but why would I choose it over Portra in the dev'n'scan age?). Home developing or mail order labs will be the norm as High Street labs struggle to maintain volume.

Somehow I see Kodak (or Son of Kodak) hanging around in the film market longer than Fuji.

I might be looking at the market with a slight bias though, I buy and shoot far more 120 than 135.
 
While there may have been a bounce in 35mm lenses, there is quite a bargain mentality such as this link http://forum.mflenses.com/what-are-the-biggest-bargains-you-have-found-t27202.html

Tokina and Carl Zeiss seem to be highly regarded, but lenses can be easily found at charity shops and car boot sales. Having just aquired Fuji S2pro for a song - the seller apparently did not realise an issue with the CR123 batteries being dud (description - "Malfunctions, it flattens batteries"), a Sigma Nikon fit 70 - 150 lens has been obtained for it via eBay for £4.65
 
kennethwfd said:
While there may have been a bounce in 35mm lenses, there is quite a bargain mentality such as this link http://forum.mflenses.com/what-are-the-biggest-bargains-you-have-found-t27202.html

Tokina and Carl Zeiss seem to be highly regarded, but lenses can be easily found at charity shops and car boot sales. Having just aquired Fuji S2pro for a song - the seller apparently did not realise an issue with the CR123 batteries being dud (description - "Malfunctions, it flattens batteries"), a Sigma Nikon fit 70 - 150 lens has been obtained for it via eBay for £4.65
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Well I agree to some extent but people are wiser to such bargains these days, I'm quite sure it's much harder to find such bargains these days.
 
Also, it only takes a quick Google search to discern whether the lens is of any worth - just hammering in a few of the words written on the lens into a search engine and hey presto!
 
menthel said:
People have been predicting the death of film for a while now. Will it be here in 10 years? Who knows. I think we may still have B&W film available but perhaps not colour. I also wouldn't be surprised if Kodak (with all of their current troubles) and Fuji (with their history of discontinuations) were not well out of the game by then.
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Looks like I'll be stocking up on Acros 100 just in case. I hope film doesn't die out. Afterall most decent photography courses still teach using traditional & analogue methods. Plenty of younger shooters love working in film aswell. I know I've always preferred black & white film to black & white ditigal conversions by a long shot {excuse the pun} hahaha. I don't mind the value boucing up, down or around, aslong as it doesn't just die a final death, whether it be 135, MF or LF.
 
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I think, given the precarious nature of the companies that make the product (Kodak - financial woes in general, Fuji - likes discontinuing products without telling anyone), it is very difficult to try and predict what will happen.

Slide film is, IMO, going to become more and more extinct. Whilst the colour negative film alternatives don't necessarily have all the same qualities, the lack of E6 processing available means less people will buy the film to shoot, which means less E6 processing, which means less... you get the idea. C-41 still has more users, even if they are a tiny proportion of what it was 15 years ago.

On the equipment side, aside from the increasing age of the gear is another problem - the increasing age of those who are skilled to fix the gear! To have so many choices of repair people, for relatively good value for money (a fraction of the original cost of the camera, and in some cases, a fraction of the second hand cost of the camera) is something that will probably dwindle in the coming years & decades. A shame, that.
 
kennethwfd said:
While there may have been a bounce in 35mm lenses, there is quite a bargain mentality such as this link http://forum.mflenses.com/what-are-the-biggest-bargains-you-have-found-t27202.html

Tokina and Carl Zeiss seem to be highly regarded, but lenses can be easily found at charity shops and car boot sales. Having just aquired Fuji S2pro for a song - the seller apparently did not realise an issue with the CR123 batteries being dud (description - "Malfunctions, it flattens batteries"), a Sigma Nikon fit 70 - 150 lens has been obtained for it via eBay for £4.65
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There is no way that I would buy or exchange an S2 PRO for a song, that song in the current market, with Simon Cowell behind it could be worth, £££££ millions. Remember:bonk::thumbs::clap::D
 
IamAshlyRose said:
Looks like I'll be stocking up on Acros 100 just in case. I hope film doesn't die out. Afterall most decent photography courses still teach using traditional & analogue methods. Plenty of younger shooters love working in film aswell. I know I've always preferred black & white film to black & white ditigal conversions by a long shot {excuse the pun} hahaha. I don't mind the value boucing up, down or around, aslong as it doesn't just die a final death, whether it be 135, MF or LF.
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None of us can predict the future but I doubt that film will die out altogether....possibly become a little harder to find and maybe less variations.

Recently there looks to have been quite a comeback towards film shooting both from those who used to shoot film, gone digi then found themselves digging out that old slr from many moons ago.

In addition there is the lomographers and quite a number of young people who wish to go down the film route as well as or in place of digi.

As for the value of lenses/ vintage gear ......rare and obscure items tend to hold or increase in value. If someone wants something badly enough, they will often pay what to others seems a ridiculous amount of money.....that, I believewill apply to MF lenses just like it will to any other product.
 
I think film in general is fairly safe (more specific film as Freecom suggests may disappear) as a quick search on Flirck will attest. The amount of film/specific film camera/lens groups is huge and many seem to have thousands of members a lot of whom are young. My worry is the cost of raw materials may rise to such an extent that people will not be able to buy as much and if demand does drop then.... well you know what happens then.

Andy
 
I guess that I am qualified to answer this one as I bought a new Olympus OM1n in 1980 and an OM2n a year later. In the first case I ended up paying about £40.00 for the standard f1.8 Zuico standard lens. In the second case I bought a wide angle f2.8 28mm lens and paid about £50.00 to go with that camera body. As we all know that some dealers are selling usesd items at the same prices today stating immaculate condition 'buy now' on and off Ebay. The bargains are to be had in the auction listings. In money terms, I could say that my lenses have kept their original value over the 30 years, but if new were still available they would probably cost somewhere around £200.00. As to the future, it is safe to assume this current interest in film will die down and values will again reduce. What film has working against it is new cameras not being available easily and at the right price.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned anything about fungal infections and condition. This is important to avoid spending a significant amount of money on something which is totally useless! This is a fresh topic that is best explored well before contemplating buying an item.

I also have an Olympus E420 which I had from new in 2008, I do have a 4/3 adaptor to use OM series lenses and I am having great difficulty in getting them to focus. The result looks so awful that I refuse to show any existing results to anyone. I could really do with some help with this.
 
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I'm not sure something has held its value if it simply sells for its original price thirty years later, because £50 had a lot more purchasing power then. Surely you have to adjust for inflation? £50 in 1981 is equivalent to about £160 now, which is not too far off your estimate of £200 if these lenses were still available new.

Of course, condition, scarcity and desirability come into it too and some cameras/lenses have outperformed inflation.
 
Just worked out that my Spotmatic F with 50mm f1.4 would have cost me the equivalent today of about $3500 compared to its recommended price of $600 in 1971..... :eek::eek:
 
s162216 said:
Just worked out that my Spotmatic F with 50mm f1.4 would have cost me the equivalent today of about $3500 compared to its recommended price of $600 in 1971..... :eek::eek:
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Wow does it really cost that much back then? I got the black spotmatic F 50mm 1.4 for £60 a month ago on fleabay.
 
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Also does anyone know how much is the Olypmpus F is worth these days? The first generation one.
 
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