off camera flash 7D and 430EX

[LCPete]

Am trying out off camera flash, 7D and 430EX (not the 430EXII)

will the camera still control the flash output or do I have to vary it manually on the flash with the exp settings?

I know the 430EXII has ETTL when used off camera but not the 430EX but not sure what that means in practice

Ive managed to get the flash to fire OK by setting the 430EX to slave and in the camera menu in flash control the built in flash is set for wireless
if I try to go into external flash func setting I get the message incompatible flash I guess its because its not the 430EXII

this is the sort of thing I,m trying to do

(taken with 550D and off camera flash on cord) I used -2 flash exp and 200 at f4 with the camera on manual

Am going to try at the zoo with off camera flash with the 7D and 430EX, shooting through glass in some of the darker enclosures
I realised afterwards that my 7D will fire the flash wirelessly and will be a lot easier than messing about with a cord

 

[u8myufo]

I get the same message on my 580ex with the 7D I just use the camera and flash in manual, set flash to high speed and then adjust the power setting on the flash itself to give the reult I am happy with.

 

[LCPete]

I get the same message on my 580ex with the 7D I just use the camera and flash in manual, set flash to high speed and then adjust the power setting on the flash itself to give the reult I am happy with.

Thanks Rich
Will give it a try

 

[HoppyUK]

In terms of operation, only difference between an EX-I and EX-II gun is you can't use the in-camera menu system to control it when in the hot-shoe (or on a cord). You just have to do that on the gun directly (which is easier anyway).

For remote operation, there's no difference - the 7D's pop-up will master the 430EX as a remote slave exactly the same.

 

[LCPete]

In terms of operation, only difference between an EX-I and EX-II gun is you can't use the in-camera menu system to control it when in the hot-shoe (or on a cord). You just have to do that on the gun directly (which is easier anyway).

For remote operation, there's no difference - the 7D's pop-up will master the 430EX as a remote slave exactly the same.

Thanks Richard
so am I right in saying that the exposure will be correct?
I just have to use exposure compensation on the flash itself if I need to

 

[AndyB1976]

You can also shoot in manual via the camera (well on my 580exIIs)

You need to leave the flashes on ETTL and not manual as you might logically expect. Then select manual in the 7D flash menu and set your exposure values and once you expose your remote slaves will read Manual with your values entered at the camera.

Of course you can compensate ETTL if you wish but I use the above method to config the groups and use the histogram/highlight alert to decide (loosely) what I think is correct.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks Richard
so am I right in saying that the exposure will be correct?
I just have to use exposure compensation on the flash itself if I need to

It should be, but flash exposure has a lot of variables and is even more difficult for the camera to estimate than ambient light, and you'll often have some of both in the same shot.

Chimp it, and then adjust flash exposure on the back of the gun, and ambient exposure on the camera as normal.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks Richard
so am I right in saying that the exposure will be correct?
I just have to use exposure compensation on the flash itself if I need to

No.
You will be able to set the ratio from the camera menu. The only difference is that you can't set exp comp (don't need to if using ratios) or change modes.

So you can use ettl or manual and set the ratio to make the 430 either key light or fill light with up to 3 stops difference from the built in flash.

Theoretically you can set the inboard to not fire, but in reality it appears to fire anyway.

As richard says, ettl gives less predictable results than manual.

 

[Steve T]

That is a great black on black shot as far as I know!.

I read loads on white this and white that, but Black is a dark art indeed (pardon the pun) and I would ask to see any expert opinions accompanied by a better shot than that and how it was done.

This could be a great thread Pete

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks Richard
so am I right in saying that the exposure will be correct?
I just have to use exposure compensation on the flash itself if I need to

It should be, but flash exposure has a lot of variables and is even more difficult for the camera to estimate than ambient light, and you'll often have some of both in the same shot.

Chimp it, and then adjust flash exposure on the back of the gun, and ambient exposure on the camera as normal.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understood your question correctly in my reply above.

With remote slave operation, there is no difference between EX-I and EX-II guns. Both types are controlled the same way by the camera's pop-up as master - set the remote/s to slave mode and leave them. Make any exposure adjustments with the in-camera menu.

Post #4 applies.

 

[LCPete]

You can also shoot in manual via the camera (well on my 580exIIs)

You need to leave the flashes on ETTL and not manual as you might logically expect. Then select manual in the 7D flash menu and set your exposure values and once you expose your remote slaves will read Manual with your values entered at the camera.

Of course you can compensate ETTL if you wish but I use the above method to config the groups and use the histogram/highlight alert to decide (loosely) what I think is correct.

Thanks Andy

It should be, but flash exposure has a lot of variables and is even more difficult for the camera to estimate than ambient light, and you'll often have some of both in the same shot.

Chimp it, and then adjust flash exposure on the back of the gun, and ambient exposure on the camera as normal.

Thanks richard

No.
You will be able to set the ratio from the camera menu. The only difference is that you can't set exp comp (don't need to if using ratios) or change modes.

So you can use ettl or manual and set the ratio to make the 430 either key light or fill light with up to 3 stops difference from the built in flash.

Theoretically you can set the inboard to not fire, but in reality it appears to fire anyway.

As richard says, ettl gives less predictable results than manual.

Thanks Phil
I will have a go later ,will experiment with the ratios
I did go to the zoo today to try it out but the animals were not co-operating will have a practice on the cats

That is a great black on black shot as far as I know!.

I read loads on white this and white that, but Black is a dark art indeed (pardon the pun) and I would ask to see any expert opinions accompanied by a better shot than that and how it was done.

This could be a great thread Pete

Thanks Steve was pleased how it came out am hoping to do the same with wireless flash and the big cats at the zoo

Sorry, I'm not sure I understood your question correctly in my reply above.

With remote slave operation, there is no difference between EX-I and EX-II guns. Both types are controlled the same way by the camera's pop-up as master - set the remote/s to slave mode and leave them. Make any exposure adjustments with the in-camera menu.

Post #4 applies.

Thanks richard
Problem was that I didnt get what people were explaining, think I have now
Ive never really used flash before never been happy with how it came out but determined this time to figure it out

 

[LCPete]

Had a go this afternoon tried ETTL and manual both seemed to work OK
Got the hang of varying the ratios and also with ETTL and varying the exposure compensation on the 430 EX
I set the exposure compensation on the 7D pop up flash to - 3

this one was with ETTL and - 1 exposure compensation on the 430 EX
just the effect I was after
thanks for the help everyone

and the same shot slightly darker