Octos Vs Softbox....

[specialman]

Never having used an octo, I'm not sure what benefits over a standard softbox they offer and in turn, whether it's worth investing in one.

Just been having a look at something like the Lastolite Hotrod Octo (or similar) but all the marketing gumf seems to focus on is A) broad, soft light, and B) alternative catchlights. The latter isn't a massive bonus for me, as I rarely do portraiture where catchlights could be inspected, but the ability to produce really soft light interests me, particularly outdoors where sometimes I feel my current softboxes (40cm ebay jobbie + 28" Apollo) are just a bit hard. Outdoors shooting in winter is what interests me most, when I want to really go to town on soft lighting to help work the conditions in my favour....

However, is there that much of a difference? I know apparent source size and diffusion play a big part in all of this, so is there something inherent to the design of the octo that makes it better than the euivalent (square) softbbox of the same size?

As an aside, is there anywhere on the web where you can clearly see the difference that modifier shapes have on how a subject is lit, maybe a site that has static set-up that remains the same throughout (like the camera/lens tests in AP)? I know different modifiers from different brands produce different quality of light, so it's a bit of a 'how's long is a piece of string' question, but it's the easiest way I can get my head around what will work for me. Strobist has some info on modifers but mainly what DH likes to use, and not a general overview of what's available, what it does and how they compare. Probably a long shot and more likely to find bits of info spread around the internet - just looking for a quick reference that can help....

 

[Garry Edwards]

I've looked at the Lastolite Hotrod Octo on their website and frankly I can't see any special benefits, it's just a softbox for a hotshoe flash, like any other. Basically, provided that the design is OK (and this one seems to me to be fine) then it's all about relative size and shape, although of course build quality and other things may make one softbox more or less suitable than another.

If you're interested in shooting outdoors then I would have thought that one of the Lencarta folding softboxes would be a much better bet, it's designed for use with (any) studio flash via changeable speedrings but can also be used with hotshoe flashes using one of these for a single flash or one of these for up to 3 flashes.

As an aside, is there anywhere on the web where you can clearly see the difference that modifier shapes have on how a subject is lit, maybe a site that has static set-up that remains the same throughout

Yes, there is, it's in the Lencarta Learning Centre

 

[specialman]

Garry, as always you're a gent and a font of knowledge

I'd heard/read a little about octos but like you say, with it all being about apparent light size and what-not, it was a case of finding out what is it going to give me that I don't already have with my two softboxes. I was hoping there was going to be some magic answer about the shape creating some unique light that I couldn't live without, but it seems that probably in the situations I'd use one, I wouldn't be benefiting from the fall-off created by having a circular shape instead of a square........

That link is great - just what I needed.

Amazing the difference between apparent light size and the end result; the octo being more than twice the size of the softbox produces a totally different light; are they both using single diffusion panels?

Thanks for pointing me towards those softboxes. I like the look of the speedring fitting; looks very tough and the angle attachment is how I like it, nice and simple and not a ball-joint, which I find just don't handle breezes as well..... Like I say, at the moment I use a Eestcott Apollo, which I like as an allround box when I have space and it's not too breezy. My other one was a £25 fleabay jobbie that's battered (and doubles up as a rain cover now and then ) but works brilliantly and features in probably 90 per cent of my flash shots. Thing is, although the build isn't that bad, it's too small for full body stuff because it's still hard light in that scenario....

 

[Garry Edwards]

You're welcome.

Amazing the difference between apparent light size and the end result; the octo being more than twice the size of the softbox produces a totally different light; are they both using single diffusion panels?

No, both with 2 diffusion panels.

 

[cowasaki]

I have found that all the different shaped soft boxes have their uses, advantages and disadvantages. With this in mind you will probably end up buying different shaped and sized softboxes. I bought a Lencarta 120cm octobox (think it was that size) and it is superb and my first choice when taking portraits BUT when I am not using it it is massive in a small studio. Likewise I bought a Lencarta 140x40cm strip box which again is superb and does a fantastic job but again it takes up too much space! I have learnt my lesson now and it is fold up softboxes every time for me!! You can have several and just stash them away whilst you use another one. Unless you have a studio the size of Garry's then space will always be at a premium.

 

[specialman]

Darren, I really do like the look of these Lencarta ones; as said, that speedring looks proper solid for outdoorsy stuff. How do you find the build - anything like studio stuff like, say, Bowens in terms of material strength? I know they're different beasts, but it's a reference point to compare....


Yep, folding boxes are very handy, although I don't mind the umbrella-types ones like the Westcott, but it probably isn't as strong. Think I might be going down that 95cm octo route, simply because it'll be well suited to the majority of in-situ stuff I shoot. Think my little fleabay jobbie will be staying though; works a treat handheld and as a moveable fill light

 

[cowasaki]

Darren, I really do like the look of these Lencarta ones; as said, that speedring looks proper solid for outdoorsy stuff. How do you find the build - anything like studio stuff like, say, Bowens in terms of material strength? I know they're different beasts, but it's a reference point to compare....


Yep, folding boxes are very handy, although I don't mind the umbrella-types ones like the Westcott, but it probably isn't as strong. Think I might be going down that 95cm octo route, simply because it'll be well suited to the majority of in-situ stuff I shoot. Think my little fleabay jobbie will be staying though; works a treat handheld and as a moveable fill light

I've been more than happy with the build quality of all the Lencarta kit I've bought to be honest but I have not used many brands personally so I'm not the person to ask. The Octobox and stripbox I have are really good quality as are the two folding softboxes I have from them. I will probably sell off the strip and octo box later in the year to replace them with folding ones but at the moment I am working madly on the software and electronics for a new photography device so I'm not doing as much in the studio as I was. (will be once these things are finished!)

 

[Mahoneyd187]

Comes down to preference, mine is octa for people, softbox for everything else, though having said that I pretty much solely shoot people, so pretty much always use round light sources

 

[HoppyUK]

As said above, size, and relative size (ie distance) is the dominant factor. The only significantly different softbox/octa is the Elinchrom Deep Octa which is more efficient because it projects a narrower pool of light and background shadows are a bit 'firmer'. Still fairly subtle difference though.

From your point of view, I suspect just moving your 28in softbox closer and adding a reflector is the first option (be careful of inverse square law fall-off though). Anything bigger and you'll be chasing it down the river

On the other hand, if you could get a really big softbox, and nail it down securely when conditions allow, given your lighting skills I think you might get some really nice results. I'm liking that idea very much

BTW, which magazines do you work for? Might take a browse in WH Smith. I've done a few pics for Angling Times and Trout Fisherman in the past - they were rubbish!

 

[Garry Edwards]

Comes down to preference, mine is octa for people, softbox for everything else, though having said that I pretty much solely shoot people, so pretty much always use round light sources

An octa is a softbox

The first softboxes, from memory, were made of sheet steel with acrylic or frosted glass fronts, used for product shots. They hung from beams in the studio, suspended on chains or with a pulley system.

Then Chimera took the concept into a portable system, using fabric and ripstop nylon instead of steel and acrylic/glass, then the idea was copied by other major players and then by just about every backstreet sweatshop in Kowloom...

As softbox production is a pretty low tech affair that can be done by just about anyone, the knicker sweatshops became softbox sweatshops, and that's why there are so many badly designed, badly made ones on the market today - it's pretty easy to save a few pence on materials, especially when the people doing the saving have no idea why it's important not to make those savings. The result? Loads of junk sold on fleabay and online stores that don't work properly. But even some well known names are guilty of selling cheap junk, although not at cheap prices, and there are softboxes around that only have a single diffuser - they produce hotspots - and which are pretty difficult to assemble/dissemble.

A well-designed, properly made softbox is capable of producing far more than just soft, diffused light. Using the right shape of softbox from the right direction it can produce rim lighting, it can produce well diffused but fairly hard lighting, it can produce high local contrast with soft overall contrast and it can also be used to feather the light - in other words, a softbox can be a very versatile tool.

But it's just one of many tools: It isn't the answer to everything.

 

[Mahoneyd187]

An octa is a softbox

The first softboxes, from memory, were made of sheet steel with acrylic or frosted glass fronts, used for product shots. They hung from beams in the studio, suspended on chains or with a pulley system.

Then Chimera took the concept into a portable system, using fabric and ripstop nylon instead of steel and acrylic/glass, then the idea was copied by other major players and then by just about every backstreet sweatshop in Kowloom...

As softbox production is a pretty low tech affair that can be done by just about anyone, the knicker sweatshops became softbox sweatshops, and that's why there are so many badly designed, badly made ones on the market today - it's pretty easy to save a few pence on materials, especially when the people doing the saving have no idea why it's important not to make those savings. The result? Loads of junk sold on fleabay and online stores that don't work properly. But even some well known names are guilty of selling cheap junk, although not at cheap prices, and there are softboxes around that only have a single diffuser - they produce hotspots - and which are pretty difficult to assemble/dissemble.

A well-designed, properly made softbox is capable of producing far more than just soft, diffused light. Using the right shape of softbox from the right direction it can produce rim lighting, it can produce well diffused but fairly hard lighting, it can produce high local contrast with soft overall contrast and it can also be used to feather the light - in other words, a softbox can be a very versatile tool.

But it's just one of many tools: It isn't the answer to everything.

You know very well what I was refering to, and practically every manufacturer out there differentiates a rectangular SOFTBOX and an octagonal SOFTBOX by just calling one an octa and one a softbox :bonk:

 

[Garry Edwards]

You know very well what I was refering to, and practically every manufacturer out there differentiates a rectangular SOFTBOX and an octagonal SOFTBOX by just calling one an octa and one a softbox :bonk:

I hadn't noticed that, I differentiate them by calling them Octa softbox, square softbox, rectangular softbox, strip softbox...
Seems more logical to me...

 

[specialman]

....From your point of view, I suspect just moving your 28in softbox closer and adding a reflector is the first option (be careful of inverse square law fall-off though). Anything bigger and you'll be chasing it down the river .....
.....On the other hand, if you could get a really big softbox, and nail it down securely when conditions allow, given your lighting skills I think you might get some really nice results. I'm liking that idea very much ...

Cheers - glad to know I'm at least on the right track with me lighting. The Apollo is excellent but it's probably beena combination of crappy weather and laizness that has seen me use it as you've described less than I should have. the handheld softbox is just too easy to pick up - I will use my tools more effectively

...BTW, which magazines do you work for? Might take a browse in WH Smith. I've done a few pics for Angling Times and Trout Fisherman in the past - they were rubbish!

Bauer (formerly Emap), which does TF and AT are our biggest competitors; I work for a company called DHP, we do seven consumer titles and three trade mags, the latter three I don't have as much to do with because it's all news-based stuff with supplied images. The consumer mags are:

Match Fishing
Pole Fishing magazine
Total Coarse Fishing
Total Carp
Advanced Carp Fishing
Total Flyfisher
Total sea Fishing

I generally get a byline when the staff remember to include it so it's pretty easy to spot my work - I've shot most of the covers lately as well, but seeing as much of my processing isn't required/welcome (delete as appropriate) they usually look a bit gash, unless I can sneak one that I tweaked under the radar

 

[HoppyUK]

I had a look today Pat, but all the fishing mags appear to be in sealed bags.

 

[The23rdman]

I had a look today Pat, but all the fishing mags appear to be in sealed bags.

That's cos the fish are all naked.

 

[HoppyUK]

That's cos the fish are all naked.

Whatever does it for you Dean

 

[specialman]

I had a look today Pat, but all the fishing mags appear to be in sealed bags.

Ah yes, bagged and probably cover mounted - another drive to increase sales (and annoy people because they can't flick through!!)...