OCF sync speeds.

ryanyboy

ryanyboy

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Hi all,

I use flash off-camera in all my work but get increasingly frustrated at the slow shutter speeds required. The cheapo transmitter/receivers (Yong Nuo - excuse spelling) I use really only sync well at 1/160 sec. Bobbins when i want to keep the aperture large.

SO, what's the BEST way to sync faster. And, secondly what's the CHEAPEST way??

I suspect Pocket Wizards will be one of the answers.....
 
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Pocket Wizards..:shrug:

The Yongnuo's Sync faster than Cactus, but the PW will match your cameras sync speed.. in fact the new ones will HYPER sync! iirc they will take it up to 1/400 without going into FP! :D
 
As you suspected, Pocket Wizards are the way to go. With the MiniTT1 and FlexTT5 combo you can push your flash sync speed to around 1/400th depending on your body.
You can also use HSS (or whatever the Nikon equivalent is).

Though it doesn't come cheap!
 
Ryan, I struggle with this and the cheap fix for me was to use an ND filter to allow larger apertures. Obviously this doesn't help with getting faster shutter speeds tan what my skyports can help me achieve (1/250th) but at least I can shoot f/2.8 and wider to get the desired effect. I just use the screw-in ones on my 17-50, although I'm sure slot-ins would be fine :)
 
ryanyboy said:
Hi all,

The cheapo transmitter/receivers (Yong Nuo - excuse spelling) I use really only sync well at 1/160 sec.
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Just took delivery of the Yongnuo 602 transmitters this morning, they are "supposed" to sync at 1/250th tops, at least that is what I found looking at youtube.

Won't find out until tonight though.
 
Scotty Pro said:
Just took delivery of the Yongnuo 602 transmitters this morning, they are "supposed" to sync at 1/250th tops, at least that is what I found looking at youtube.

Won't find out until tonight though.
Click to expand...

Let me know mate. My experience is 1/160 but would love to know if yours is faster :)
 
ryanyboy said:
I have the SU-800 and would agree it's the obvious answer. But it's so unreliable in outdoor situations. And that's where I want the faster sync.
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I knew that's what you'd say ;)

What about adding a set of Radio Poppers to the SU-800?
 
ryanyboy said:
I have the SU-800 and would agree it's the obvious answer. But it's so unreliable in outdoor situations. And that's where I want the faster sync.
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I see a medium format camera in your future. ;)
 
Canon 50D, Canon 430EX2's and 580EX2's. It's just never been an issue.

And, after finally rtfm I've actually worked out how to use Canons wireless flash properly, using the 580 as a commander and the two 430s as slaves. Works a treat, even on ETTL, but seems unnecessarily complicated at first :thinking:
 
BandyQuill said:
yeah i read about the canon wireless system, seems like alot of effort for what it is.
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It seemed that way to me too, when I first had a go with it. That is until I realised I can control all three flashes from the back of the camera. No more running up and down, tripping over light stands and such. For certain situations, it's much easier, for others radio triggers and manual are better. Horses for courses. You've just got to get your head around Canon's unintuitive instructions and terminology.
 
RF 602's

I've just tried mine, syncs OK at 1/250 and you can just see the curtain at the bottom of the pic @ 1/320 so I recon it would be ok at 1/300 if I could set it to that.

Canon 1d and Canon 580
 
Ste Manns said:
I've never had any issues with my set, they work at 1/250th every time?? :shrug:
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same here, where with my yn460s, sb800s or studio lights.

Silly q, but have you tried with fresh set of good quality batteries?
 
ryanyboy said:
Thanks Simon - will go watch :thumbs:
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I might be wrong, but I'm not sure that the RadioPoppers are capable of pushing the sync speed beyond the sync-speed native to the camera.

I think that's still the preserve of the PocketWizards.
 
That Dave Black video uses a fibre optic hack doesn't it to transmit the IR signal from the SU800 through the Radiopopper to the radiopoppers on each flash - expensive I'm sure :)
 
markrichardson said:
I might be wrong, but I'm not sure that the RadioPoppers are capable of pushing the sync speed beyond the sync-speed native to the camera.

I think that's still the preserve of the PocketWizards.
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Dave Black shoots at 1/1600 and above using the SU800/Radio Poppers set up in FP mode....

specialman said:
That Dave Black video uses a fibre optic hack doesn't it to transmit the IR signal from the SU800 through the Radiopopper to the radiopoppers on each flash - expensive I'm sure :)
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In the surf video he splits the feed and has two flashes running off each receiver, using cables and mounts from Michael Bass, Bass shows the set up on his site with four flashes running from one Radio Popper using his mods, at a cost of around £200 (plus the flashes/RPs and SU-800), so comparable in cost to one Pocket Wizard...
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Dave Black shoots at 1/1600 and above using the SU800/Radio Poppers set up in FP mode....
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My point about the pushing the sync speed beyond the sync-speed native to the camera wasn't expressed very clearly.

The PocketWizards use what they call hypersync to enable shutter speeds faster than the camera's native sync-speed, without having to use FP/HSS.

With hotshoe style flashes, this allows you to push your sync speed to say 1/500 (depending on camera model) before you need to use FP/HSS.

With studio flashes etc people it has been allowing people to sync at up
1/1600.
 
Thanks again for all the ideas folks. The Dave Black idea that FITP mentions is probably great but sounds far too complicated for a Fen Boy like me :D

Bryan makes a very good point. Sync speeds with the Yongnuo kit does indeed pick up when fresh batteries are in the kit. But it's so frustrating that as the batteries are used a few times the sync speed drops. To be fair though I could make sure I put new batteries in the items when the sync speed is as slow as 1/160. Cheers Byan :)

After all has been said and done I think a set of pocket wizards is the way forward. It seems they are in good supply at the likes of Park Cameras and Warehouse Express. It's my birthday Tuesday so maybe a present to myself is in order :D

Before I go - does anyone know if a set of Nikon pocketwizards could be then used to fire studio strobes or the likes of the Quadra Rangers?? (which will be my birthday present next year when I hit 40 :'( )
 
markrichardson said:
My point about the pushing the sync speed beyond the sync-speed native to the camera wasn't expressed very clearly.

The PocketWizards use what they call hypersync to enable shutter speeds faster than the camera's native sync-speed, without having to use FP/HSS.

With hotshoe style flashes, this allows you to push your sync speed to say 1/500 (depending on camera model) before you need to use FP/HSS.

With studio flashes etc people it has been allowing people to sync at up
1/1600.
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That other kind of hypersync, up to any shutter speed you like, is called the 'tail sync hack' which you can bodge with any flash/camera. You need a few bits and a long flash duration, which generally means a studio flash or a hot-shoe gun firing on full power only.

It's not very good though - waaay down on power, and you get uneven exposure top to bottom. High Speed sync/FP Sync is much better.

On the Dave Black video, I'm guessing that he was only using Radio Poppers because the Pocket Wizards for Nikon were not available until a few weeks ago. You can do something fairly similar for a fraction of his investment. I've found a way of getting remote wireless radio HSS using RF-602s. It's a bit invloved, manual only, but it works :)
 
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I've found a way of getting remote wireless radio HSS using RF-602s. It's a bit invloved, manual only, but it works

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I for one would like to know how
 
paulminus273 said:
I've found a way of getting remote wireless radio HSS using RF-602s. It's a bit invloved, manual only, but it works

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I for one would like to know how
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I thought posting that comment might be a mistake ;) Well, this is how it works with my Canon 580EX guns, four of them, with four RF-602 triggers. Other guns/triggers may works differently, or not at all.

First you need one of these:

IMG_4870-1.jpg


Which is a simple optical slave (from www.colinsfoto.co.uk ) plugged straight into the RF-602 transmitter and fitted so that it picks up the flash from any gun set to high speed sync. I've since got a little 270EX for this purpose, with a neat custom made enclosure (actually half of an E45 skin cream bottle, which slips on Stofen-style). BTW, you can also use the same workaround to do radio-triggered second curtain sync - see below :thumbs:

Then you need to prep your remote flash guns, by setting them to slave and then firing them in HSS mode using a master gun set to whatever manual power output you finally want to use. Then you plug them into the RF-602 where they retain whichever firing mode was last used, in this case HSS. Now you're ready to shoot.

With the flash on camera set to HSS (mimimum power is fine) the optical slave picks up the HSS flash which goes out well ahead of all the other triggering signals. Which trips the transmitter, which then triggers the remote receiver, when then fires its remote flash which of course now puts out a HSS pulse. There you go.

It works for me, though sometimes one of the flashes doesn't fire - maybe once out of ten. I have no idea why, checked everything loads of times, but I guess neither the flash nor the triggers are supposed to work like this. So it's up to you - I'm not recommending it, particularly as you can get remote HSS using the regular IR system anyway.

However, the radio remote second curtain sync is not available in any other way with the normal Canon system and that works 100% reliably. Just set the remote guns as you normally would on the RF-602, and the on-camera flash to manual second curtain sync. Sweet :D
 
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david1701 said:
dam that makes good sense
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Be interested to see if you can make it work some time David :thumbs:

While you're at it, I'd also like to know what clean max x-sync speed you can get with an RF-602, a) plugged into the hot shoe, and then b) synched off the PC socket ;)
 
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I use these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-TETRA-WIRELESS-FLASH-STUDIO-TRIGGER-SET-NEW-/280501900187?pt=UK_Photography_DigitalCamAccess_RL&hash=item414f37539b
they claim to have max 1/250th sync, but they sync fine up to 1/500th with my 1D classic with both strobes and flashes.
However they dont take kindly to falling 8 foot up onto hard flooring when you dont secure them properly :lol:
From a signal distance/coverage piont of veiw they are great but the thing that lets them down is the quality of their construction they do come apart easily (cheap plastic) but you get what you pay for;)
 
Hey guys. I just thought i'd keep you updated. I've just ordered my Nikon Pocket Wizards. Will let you know how i get on asap.
 
PWs arrived today. One Mini TT1 and two flex TT5's. In terms of the firmware, some of the Americans have been getting them with the latest firmware installed. But mine were out of date. Thankfully, updating them was a simple affair :D

I've watched most of the instruction videos and intend to shoot with them tomorrow. I have a feeling shooting with the flashes in manual mode might be easier said than done. But I'll see how it goes. Who knows - I might even start liking iTTL.
 
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