Obsession..........

dougdarter

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Douglas
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Yes
............. with condition of equipment.

Here's a thing. I've been using cameras for 50 years, putting them in, and taking them out of bags/cases etc, changing lenses, getting them wet, putting them on the ground, and unintentionally abusing them. But I'm pretty certain that modern cameras, especially high end models are built to take such treatment, and they almost always survive in good condition.

The mere use of a camera out of doors (and often inside) will inevitably mean that it picks up small scratches, and the occasional ding (Nikon film cameras were very prone to collecting dents on the prism housing, but this didn't make them un-useable). They are battle scars if you like, and used to be the sign of a pro photographer.

Yet, time after time I see people bemoaning the fact that a camera (or lens) has small marks or scratches, and turning them down as unattractive purchases. I've often seen the first question on a sales post questions such as 'Close up photograph of any mark please', or please describe in details any small marks, scratches or grazes, marks on lens coatings, barrels, marks on LCD screens etc ad nauseum.

It seems to me the situation is almost 'tail wagging the dog'! Are people buying photographic equipment second hand, and then not using it as intended, because they fear marking it?? Do they think that any marks or similar damage make it any the less a camera? Are they not enjoying their hobby fully, because they are afraid that they might damage their equipment?

I understand that condition of a camera may, but only may be signs of careless abuse, or long life, but this is the exception rather than the rule. t probably only means that the camera is USED. I treat my equipment with care, and it doesn't often suffer, but if it does pick up a mark or two, it's actually quite liberating. Knowing that it already has a battle scar makes the next one so much easier to bear.

My favourite lens, an older Canon 200mm f2.8, is covered in scratches, front element covered in cleaning marks, a bit murky behind the rear element, and even the start of fungus, yet it still works, and it still produces bright, saturated and sharp pictures, unless you try and use it contre jour, in which case the many cleaning marks make it challenging. But it works, despite it's appalling condition. I sold a Canon 400mm f5.6L here a few years ago, which had 25% of the paint missing, because some pillock had used camouflaged gaffer tape to camouflage it for birding. I don't think he ever stopped to wonder what was the stronger - gaffer tape adhesive or Canon white paint! But it was a brilliant lens, and the buyer, who was more concerned with utility rather than looks, got a fantastic lens for a small price.

The simple truth is, that if you want a camera that looks new it's probably better to buy new, and don't always expect that used equipments should look the same. It doesn't always, and the reason it doesn't, and the reason it's cheap, is because it has been used, and it is SECOND HAND.

Have fun.
 
I know how you feel :D,years ago as a pro my cameras and lens would be in an open bag,and yes they did have a few battle scars about them.

But theses day i am a bit more careful with my stuff,but my stuff does get used and its going to pick up marks it cant be helped,selling s/h is a minefield theses days you have to be so careful and show every mark.

But like you say if you want mint buy it new,its that easy :)
 
As long as it works as it should, it doesn't really matter what condition it's in....unless you're one of those that uses your gear for posing rather than it's intended purpose.
 
I hate marks. Especially the ones, seller is *not* telling you about...

Latest second hand piece was a Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8.
Seller showed some tiny shots of it and did mention some small scratches... one side of the lens was a mess, it had lost its golden ring too!

Two days later I had to tell him, that I simply had to let it go back. Glass was perfect, but every time I looked at the lens...

A week later I got another Nikkor from another seller. Not a single mark or scratch. Not even the tinyest one... just perfect!


I don't care, if I'm "a poser" :lol: but I do like my gear to look good. Have to look at it every day for years to come...


The pro approach usually is, that it's just tools, but in my gear relationship, I'm the tool!





... wait!
banana_sad.gif
 
Ha, great rant and totally agree. Nail on head, utility over looks every time:thumbs:
 
I don't mind marks at all, but as per a couple of peeps above, I want to know they're there so I can make an informed decision on whether they'll have any impact on me.

Reminds me of a listing I was looking at on Ebay recently- 'Some small fungus spots in the front element'
Great, but give me a picture- No chance, one fuzzy, out of focus picture of the lens box :(

I really don't know what some people have been doing with the expensive lens they're trying to sell if the quality of the pictures on their advert is anything to go by- Using it as a bludgeon or something? :p
 
Shush! People will start raising the price of dinged up kit if they think it's OK. ;)

But seriously, I was a bit horrified when I got my old minolta gear out of storage recently after about 15 years, to see how bashed & scuffed it was. Thought I'd always taken such good care too.
 
If I were buying second hand, of which I have done numerous times, I would much prefer an item of kit thats been looked after rather than one thats been off road. To that end I don't mind the second hand price reflecting the quality of the item. I get more narked when people want top doller for second hand rubbish.
 
As long as the price is reflects the condition, there shouldn't be an issue. Plus there's a big difference between well used and damaged/neglected, eg i'd be very cautious of buying a lens with a dinged filter thread, sign of being dropped which leads to other possible complications (although old, manual cheaper glass isn't as much of an issue as it's generally a little more bombproof)
 
So long as it works I care not what the damn thing looks like...my kit is looked after as on the most part it's bloody expensive but if and when it takes a knock I don't loose any sleep over it :shrug:
 
I brought an bit of a baldly marked Nikon 70-210 F2.8,worked great and the optics were spot on :)
 
It's like with classic cars, you're either a driver or a polisher.

With cameras I'm not looking to chop and change every year (next year should see me upgrade my 40D after 5+ years of use), so it's more important to me that I use it rather than preserve the re-sale value on the body. But I will put the lenses into pouches or padded sections of the bag. I like to keep those in better condition than the body - which has rub marks on the ends and a chip or two on the rear screen, and shale embedded in the creases that I may never get out.

A lot of people have been made very frightened of very simple things like cleaning their cameras/lenses and get very obsessive about filters. They keep them so padded and protected up that it can get in the way of the point of owning one. I've had someone come over to me whilst I was cleaning the front element and ask me if I should be doing that. Muppet.
 
I as a matter of routine take "protection filters" off my lens if they get whacked so hard as to break a filter then chances are the front element would get damaged anyway or even get scratched by the broken filter glass :bang: plus with all the lights etc that I use for light painting there is a good chance of flare ruining a shot with filters fitted
 
It seems to me the situation is almost 'tail wagging the dog'! Are people buying photographic equipment second hand, and then not using it as intended, because they fear marking it?? Do they think that any marks or similar damage make it any the less a camera? Are they not enjoying their hobby fully, because they are afraid that they might damage their equipment?


Amateurs don't think of them as tools, that's the problem. They will always moan if there's a mark on it.
 
its exactly the same as buying a used car ,which is better a 100,00 plus miler with total full service history and all receipts ,or a 50,000 miler thats never been serviced and only allegedly used on school runs .at the end of the day a camera or lens or car is just a tool ,if looked after they work well if not then caveat emptor .
the other problem these days are fast buck scammers who buy job lots of stuff and try to sell for more than retail value on e/bay etc .easily spotted if you know what to look for but they must catch some out
 
Not pleased to see this topic being raised

Really hope people don't start thinking that signs of use are just normal and make no difference whatsoever.

Picked up some s/h real bargains because of a little mark here and there or because of some other perceived flaw. In fact has become bit of a joke and when I buy something my daughter says "what's wrong with it"

In reality absolutely nothing would be the answer other than it had been used, so please carry on thinking like that. We all know that cupboard queens take far better photos and ignore this thread
 
Yes agree they are tools my 7D has got quite a few marks on it now but by the time I come to upgrade it it won't make any difference to its value anyway
I do just go out and use my gear even in the rain with a cover
One thing I am careful with is tho is condensation I always leave the gear im the bag when coming inside from the cold
I didn't even try to sell my 40D when I bought the 7D as it had a few rub msrks and a shutter count of 67K thought that it would have been a waste of time trying to sell it even though it's still in perfect working order
 
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Used to use a Nkon A1 film camera years ago it was, remember walking along the promenade in the south of France when the leather strap broke and said camera bounced on the concrete floor massive dent in the side of the body but as that was the only camera that i had on me carried on using it .
Got back home and took it to camera shop to be check over guess what nothing wrong still working ok kept it for another 3 years before changing it .
I don't think modern cameras can take such abuse as the old ones with a chassis.
Barry
 
One day I'll probably sell my 70-200. All four of them. There's only one lens but so many bits have been replaced or repaired that it's actually 4 lenses put together into one Frankenlens.
 
Any time I sell gear, I make a point, in bold if possible on the advert, that there are marks, or niggles or scratches or whatever. And state that I have set the price with this in mind. It covers you for those buyers who are over eager, then a week later come back moaning about the marks. It's never happened to me that anyone came back, because I made it clear enough, they knew what they were buying. I've been lucky with buyers and sellers to date. But I know guys that have had awful hassles.

I sold my Fuji X100s just 2 days ago. I wasn't using it, and decided to let it go while they're still fecthing decent money. The LCD had a few feint scratches from where I stupidly left it down on a rock, just for a few minutes while setting up a tripod. It fell over and well, the rock was a little gritty/rough. Otherwise the camera was in great condition. I mentioned the scratches in the ad and said potential buyers were free to come view before agreeing to buy. The guy who came to view brought it home. He was suprised that I had even mentioned it, as the marks were not visible at all when the cam was switched on. But what it did was strengthen my rep as a seller. And he was full of praise in his feedback - on a local site where I have 30 sales, all positive to date.

Even though you'll get moaners and nit-pickers, it is best to list ANY issues, even the slightest, because they may have a case for return if you don't. And you'll find their pleasantly surprised when the issues is not as bad as you made out.
 
Even though you'll get moaners and nit-pickers, it is best to list ANY issues, even the slightest, because they may have a case for return if you don't. And you'll find their pleasantly surprised when the issues is not as bad as you made out.

This
 
My only obsession when buying used is to know exactly what I'm getting; any marks, flaws or damage should be disclosed if buying unsighted. I have bought 'as new' and some pretty battered used stuff in the past, but as long as I know in advance what's going to arrive in the post, I'm happy.

I honestly don't see an issue with the fact that some people are more fussy than others either. They are, after all, precision tools.
 
Yeah, nothing like a 'mint' item arriving full of scratches then having to pay to send it back via RMSD! A camera is meant to be used but if someones selling and describing as mint/unmarked that is what the buyer will expect. I dont see an issue with looking after or being fussy about gear. Its a tool but then I also look after my tools and they are a lot cheaper than my camera gear.
 
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The other issue is what one person calls good condition or mint may not be what someone else calls good condition or mint. Having been the other side of a retail counter it always amazed me how some people described conditioning the phone and then got really upset when they brought said item in and out was nothing like they said, you would then get other people who from their description you would think it was knackered and when it turned up was pristine with the smallest of mark on it that you could only see when they pointed it out to you.
 
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