Nuclear site web pictures a terror threat

Typical response... nevermind that Google Earth (and any other satellite mapping program) has these images on tap...
 
Well if they didn't know it already they certainly do now... :shrug: ... if they're Sun readers at any rate... :naughty:


Talk about stating the obvious... poor time for proper news is it... :thinking:






:p
 
Ahem anyone spot the error there?

armed response from the Civil Nuclear Constabulary
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How does that work then? :thinking:

Besides, it's the Sun. The only printed thing in there that I believe is the price.
 
Marcel said:
Ahem anyone spot the error there?



How does that work then? :thinking:

Besides, it's the Sun. The only printed thing in there that I believe is the price.
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I'm guessing it is more a matter of the armed constabulary, looking after civil nuclear installations. :)
 
purpleclouds said:
I'm guessing it is more a matter of the armed constabulary, looking after civil nuclear installations. :)
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I know a couple of people who work at Sellafield as policemen, and they certainly act now, think later when faced with potential terrorist threats and they will most certainly be armed!! :nuts:
 
candlestick said:
I know a couple of people who work at Sellafield as policemen, and they certainly act now, think later when faced with potential terrorist threats and they will most certainly be armed!! :nuts:
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I'm sure you're right.

And a white guy with a huge SLR on a tripod WILL be considered a terrorist threat, no doubt....
 
candlestick said:
I know a couple of people who work at Sellafield as policemen, and they certainly act now, think later when faced with potential terrorist threats and they will most certainly be armed!! :nuts:
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My dad works on (and lives near) RAF Mildenhall...one of his friends was working on a diesel dumper truck whilst there were loads of yanks doing drill and it backfired...surely enough within 20 seconds he was surround by armed police :eek: He couldn't stop laughing at them all dropping to the floor :lol:
 
purpleclouds said:
My dad works on (and lives near) RAF Mildenhall...one of his friends was working on a diesel dumper truck whilst there were loads of yanks doing drill and it backfired...surely enough within 20 seconds he was surround by armed police :eek: He couldn't stop laughing at them all dropping to the floor :lol:
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:clap::clap:
 
purpleclouds said:
My dad works on (and lives near) RAF Mildenhall...one of his friends was working on a diesel dumper truck whilst there were loads of yanks doing drill and it backfired...surely enough within 20 seconds he was surround by armed police :eek: He couldn't stop laughing at them all dropping to the floor :lol:
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:clap::clap:


I was about a mile away from an oil refinery, at night, a few years ago with a huge SLR on a tripod. Security arrives.

Next day, at home, visit from local plods to check me out.


It'll be that much security x50 at a nuclear plant now.

In a way, who can blame them?
 
Indeed! We would be condemning them if anything happened...damned if they do, damned if they don't!

They saw the funny side of it eventually...although he didn't tell them you could make it backfire by pumping the accelerator (or something..I'd stopped listening by then) :lol:
 
Civil Nuclear Constabulary Is an actual police force. They protect all British Nuclear installations, Nuclear conveys, Powerstations etc. They have the same powers as a normal officer. They are the only British Force to be allowed to be armed all the time.

Pointing a camera at any nuclear installation has had the same Police reaction for the last 25 years.
 
photographerian said:
They have the same powers as a normal officer. They are the only British Force to be allowed to be armed all the time.
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Any police force can arm any of their officers all the time if they so wish. Most police forces have a section of officers who are designated as armed response officers and some forces have they armed all the time (others have them keep the weapons in a safe in their vehicle). Several officers based at airports are permanently armed too. Some larger forces have whole departments permanently armed.
 
jerry12953 said:
I'm sure you're right.

And a white guy with a huge SLR on a tripod WILL be considered a terrorist threat, no doubt....
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I'd say pointing a camera at a nuclear establishment is pretty stupid. You'd have to ask why anyone would want such photos, and it goes without saying you dont take photos of active military or nuclear establishments anyway for obvious reasons. If you do you should fully expect to be searched and your memory card seized, you'd be ignorant to think otherwise.

Terrorists do do reccies of places which is why its not tolerated.

I'd rather the police stop checked a few innocent 'togs if it means any potential threat is eliminated as I wouldnt want a Chernobyl type fall out in the UK!
 
cowasaki said:
Any police force can arm any of their officers all the time if they so wish. Most police forces have a section of officers who are designated as armed response officers and some forces have they armed all the time (others have them keep the weapons in a safe in their vehicle). Several officers based at airports are permanently armed too. Some larger forces have whole departments permanently armed.
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What I meant was. The CNC are Permanently armed as a matter of course.
 
odd jim said:
I'd say pointing a camera at a nuclear establishment is pretty stupid. You'd have to ask why anyone would want such photos, and it goes without saying you dont take photos of active military or nuclear establishments anyway for obvious reasons. If you do you should fully expect to be searched and your memory card seized, you'd be ignorant to think otherwise.

Terrorists do do reccies of places which is why its not tolerated.

I'd rather the police stop checked a few innocent 'togs if it means any potential threat is eliminated as I wouldnt want a Chernobyl type fall out in the UK!
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um as far as i know there are no laws that say you have to surrender any pics or memory cards.
 
neil_g said:
um as far as i know there are no laws that say you have to surrender any pics or memory cards.
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They would be evidence because it is a criminal offence!

edit: Although that appears strange with the number of pictures you actually see of nuclear power plants etc......

edit again: It sort of depends on where you are when you take the pictures!
 
odd jim said:
If you do you should fully expect to be searched and your memory card seized, you'd be ignorant to think otherwise.
!
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Then you can consider me ignorant, there is no way on earth anyone is going to 'seize' my memory card, if it is felt that it is serious enough to seize the card, then that, as far as I am concerned is enough to consider what I have as evidence but only on the understanding that I am breaking the law in the first place.

Almost all of my photography consists of me taking photos of military establishments and equipment (military aviation photography is my hobby) and as yet, no member of the police, whether Civilian or MOD, has deemed what I do to be breaking the law.
 
48thEagle said:
Then you can consider me ignorant, there is no way on earth anyone is going to 'seize' my memory card, if it is felt that it is serious enough to seize the card, then that, as far as I am concerned is enough to consider what I have as evidence but only on the understanding that I am breaking the law in the first place.

Almost all of my photography consists of me taking photos of military establishments and equipment (military aviation photography is my hobby) and as yet, no member of the police, whether Civilian or MOD, has deemed what I do to be breaking the law.
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The police can seize any item that could be used in relation to terrorism under various section of the terrorism act. They could argue that until they've fully examined the card / images they have enough suspicion to warrant taking it should you not co-operate (which would almost certainly lead to an arrest). Of course thats an extreme example but its a possibility if you take such pictures. Items can be seized and arrests made on suspicion, they dont need definitive proof an offence has actually been committed.

Of course you could go and take pictures unchallenged, it depends on what the individual officer decides to do, but what Iim saying the powers are there if they need them and decide to use them.

I'm not calling you ignorant for taking pictures of bases / military stuff etc, but you would be if you wer'nt aware that you could be challenged, which I'm sure you are!
 
jerry12953 said:
I'm sure you're right.

And a white guy with a huge SLR on a tripod WILL be considered a terrorist threat, no doubt....
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And why not, after all - you're considered a terrorist if you are in London with an SLR...

My point is that this is all very well, and I agree that they have to do something but come on, there's 1000's of pics freely available with times and dates on the web of pretty much everything.

Bring in Google earth and a terrorist has all the information they need - co-ordinates of places, probably accurate to less than a meter.
 
odd jim said:
I'm not calling you ignorant for taking pictures of bases / military stuff etc, but you would be if you wer'nt aware that you could be challenged, which I'm sure you are!
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I totally understand what you are saying.

My main locations, are RAF Lakenheath and RAF Mildenhall, both of which are operated by the U.S. Air Force, and as such, I have, on occasion been visited by the MOD police on a few occasions, because the Americans are very twitchy and paranoid. The MOD police have never failed to be anything but polite, friendly and courteous, and always ask us not to go to near the fence etc, but they equally know that we, as photographers, don't want to cause any unrest, because it would possibly give reason to place physical restrictions on our hobby, meaning we would all lose out, it is a very fine line, and quite a balancing act.
 
neil_g said:
does not state whether they have the right to remove your images/memory cards..

grey area ahoy :thinking:
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It is. But if you refused to co operate you would just be arrested and the card and camera would then be taken as evidence until they were examined and they were satified no threat is posed... But usually a common sense approach is taken, as with 48thEagle's post above, as long as you dont take the micky with them you should be fine!!
 
The CNP is a joke anyway, no different from the regular force. The problem with having an armedforce of idiots is that someone will get hurt.
 
odd jim said:
The police can seize any item that could be used in relation to terrorism under various section of the terrorism act. They could argue that until they've fully examined the card / images they have enough suspicion to warrant taking it should you not co-operate (which would almost certainly lead to an arrest). Of course thats an extreme example but its a possibility if you take such pictures. Items can be seized and arrests made on suspicion, they dont need definitive proof an offence has actually been committed.

Of course you could go and take pictures unchallenged, it depends on what the individual officer decides to do, but what Iim saying the powers are there if they need them and decide to use them.

I'm not calling you ignorant for taking pictures of bases / military stuff etc, but you would be if you wer'nt aware that you could be challenged, which I'm sure you are!
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only if it is to be used at trial, rummaging around on the home office website appears to have VERY little about photos and the siezure/deletion of.
 
neil_g said:
http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-and-the-law.html#terrorism
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This site points to the site I pointed to. Basically if you are caught taking photos of a nuclear power plant you can be arrested under the anti terrorism laws it is then that the police will go over your photos and then it would be up to the CPS as to whether to proceed and then up to the court as to whether you are guilty and whether your photos need to be deleted. Your equipment etc can be kept as evidence until the court proceedings have finished.
 
yeah but what im getting at is that they cant demand you delete your images when out in public.

tbh i cant see anyone getting arrested unless they kick off with the police.
 
neil_g said:
yeah but what im getting at is that they cant demand you delete your images when out in public.

tbh i cant see anyone getting arrested unless they kick off with the police.
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If, in those circs, they ask you to delete them and leave and you do there would be no problem. If you refuse then that is when you are likely to be arrested etc etc.... So yes they cannot demand you delete a picture whilst out in public effectively you will do !
 
odd jim said:
I'd say pointing a camera at a nuclear establishment is pretty stupid. You'd have to ask why anyone would want such photos, and it goes without saying you dont take photos of active military or nuclear establishments anyway for obvious reasons. If you do you should fully expect to be searched and your memory card seized, you'd be ignorant to think otherwise.

Terrorists do do reccies of places which is why its not tolerated.

I'd rather the police stop checked a few innocent 'togs if it means any potential threat is eliminated as I wouldnt want a Chernobyl type fall out in the UK!
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See my later post!
 
not that id ever go and photograph a nuclear site (boring!) if i did get stopped id like to think that i could show the officer the images and theyd use common sense that i was doing nothing wrong.
 
odd jim said:
I'd say pointing a camera at a nuclear establishment is pretty stupid. You'd have to ask why anyone would want such photos, and it goes without saying you dont take photos of active military or nuclear establishments anyway for obvious reasons. If you do you should fully expect to be searched and your memory card seized, you'd be ignorant to think otherwise.

Terrorists do do reccies of places which is why its not tolerated.

I'd rather the police stop checked a few innocent 'togs if it means any potential threat is eliminated as I wouldnt want a Chernobyl type fall out in the UK!
Click to expand...

I can think of very good reasons to want to photograph a nuclear site that have nothing at all to do with terrorism. Same as one might want to photograph an oil refinery in a national park, for example.
 
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