Novices head about to explode - Nikon D40 or D60, which lens etc...

I al ready have a tripod .... he says before it gets sold and something better comes along :lol:

I have also purchased the following books:

The Photoshop Elements 5 Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby

Night and Low-light Photography: The Complete Guide by Lee Frost

Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera by Bryan Peterson
 
I can relate to your your what should i buy problem, I went through the same thing. I couldn't justify the D80 price, as i am still new to all this, but eventually decided on the D40x over the D40 on the 10 Mp as 6 MP. The D60 was still a rumour when i took the plunge, looking at the D60 it just looked as a replacement for the D40/X. Its just like computers, They always bring another out just after you have bought one.

I based my decision on the fact the camera is for my own personal use, as opposed to being a professional that would be using it for their livelihood.

I also decided to get the 70-300VR lens, since i always seem to end up a bit far away from the the action. I have seen it was a well talked about lens on here, any bigger and you might need a sherpa and a tripod to help you carry it lol
 
Agent006 said:
I can relate to your your what should i buy problem, I went through the same thing. I couldn't justify the D80 price, as i am still new to all this, but eventually decided on the D40x over the D40 on the 10 Mp as 6 MP. The D60 was still a rumour when i took the plunge, looking at the D60 it just looked as a replacement for the D40/X. Its just like computers, They always bring another out just after you have bought one.

I based my decision on the fact the camera is for my own personal use, as opposed to being a professional that would be using it for their livelihood.

I also decided to get the 70-300VR lens, since i always seem to end up a bit far away from the the action. I have seen it was a well talked about lens on here, any bigger and you might need a sherpa and a tripod to help you carry it lol
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It was the D40 vs D40X that was getting in the way of my decision. But after very very intensive research...the D40 always came out on top of the D40X and the megapixel thing was not the right thing to get hung up on.

The difference in price will now go towards a good lens :)

But the D40X is a very good camera and many have bought it and are very happy. I just had to make sure I was buying the right one... in my own mind.
 
Something I don't think I ever asked in this thread and is quite important to me really.

Can I go and buy the D40 and get out there taking pictures and enjoy them from straight out of the camera.... or do I have to get my head around always having to PP all my images after in Elements 5?

As to be honest that is something I am not really into doing and never have been.

Reason why I ask this is regarding this interesting thread on dpreview.

The quotes below are from the original poster of that thread.

My new Nikon D60 arrived on Wednesday and I had been enjoying it immensely until today. It looks good, feels good in my hands, and is relatively easy to use.

Today I did a test to compare the D60 with my old Fujifilm F10 point and shoot. I wanted to see how much better the D60 really was. I put both cameras on a tripod without flash and made test shots of some books, plants, text, fabric, etc. In the test shots the F10 seemed sharper on my computer screen, so a I cropped a small portion of each shot, enlarged them, and had them printed as glossy 8 x 10s at Costco. The Fuji results were a bit sharper here too. Not a lot, but still noticeable.
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There seems to be consensus on this forum that my findings should not have surprised me, that in fact a point and shoot will often outperform a dslr without post processing. Yet it did surprise me and in fact stunned me. I still think I will enjoy my new D60 and things will work out, but had I know in advance of what I know now, I might have stayed with the point and shoot simply for portability reasons.
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Gazza_UK said:
Can I go and buy the D40 and get out there taking pictures and enjoy them from straight out of the camera.... or do I have to get my head around always having to PP all my images after in Elements 5?
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Yes, you can.
Of course, it depends on your personal preferences, but processing settings i most dslrs are pretty customisable.

Or you can shoot raw, get a decent batch capable raw converter and be happy with that.
 
Slapo said:
Or you can shoot raw, get a decent batch capable raw converter and be happy with that.
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Is Nikons Capture NX OK then? Or will I need a bank loan for some other software, no doubt Adobe or something :)

Cheers,

Gazza.
 
I don't use Capture NX, I usually only have a few photos that I publish and I process those from raw myself in RawTherapee, UFRaw or ViewNX and then in the GIMP if necessary.

I doubt many people who use Photoshop actually need it and the GIMP, Paint Shop Pro or something similar could serve them just as well.
It's similar for raw processing. Unless you do lots of batch conversions, you're probably safe with the free tools.
 
I think I will stick to JPEG... sounds way to complicated just for some pictures.

Starting to wonder if this is the right way to go for me and whether I have the real dedication to something like this.
 
Even if you didn't have the dedication, the D40 should be very usable as a point and shoot camera... my D50 is if I set it to.
It's just that during the last year, almost all of my shots have been shot in raw, because I wanted to have complete control over the process.
If you don't crop, jpegs should be perfectly fine. Just read the manual.
 
Gazza mate, take it a step at a time. I'd really take that post about the compact out-performing a DSLR with a very large pinch of salt. ;) The tiny sensor on a point and shoot compact can't begin to compete with the larger sensor of the DSLR, they all start to show noise quite badly at very moderate ISOs and chromatic abberations are far worse.

The point and shoot job will produce sharp jpegs because it's set up to do just that. As someone said earlier, you can fine tune the sharpening for jpegs in your DSLR anyway, but lots of people (me included) prefer to disable all sharpening in the camera and deal with each shot on it's merits in processing.

There's nothing wrong with shooting jpegs and you can fine tune the sharpening in camera or deal with it in processing - whichever you choose.

The SLR camera is simply the most flexible camera yet devised, and if you like taking pics, you're not doing anything wrong. I can understand your reservations at what seems like a lot of bother to you at the moment, but give it a go and see how you get on. :)
 
Ct makes a very good point, something I alluded to earlier in the thread, why not buy secondhand to see if you like it first?

You will lose little money if you do this and then decide that its not for you.....:thumbs:
 
CT said:
Gazza mate, take it a step at a time. I'd really take that post about the compact out-performing a DSLR with a very large pinch of salt. ;) The tiny sensor on a point and shoot compact can't begin to compete with the larger sensor of the DSLR, they all start to show noise quite badly at very moderate ISOs and chromatic abberations are far worse....
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:agree:

Most of the new cams are 10+ MP little monsters where you can see either noise, noise reduction artifacts or colour blotches (in RGB :P ), the details often go the way of the dodo bird because the noise reduction has to be very aggressive and despite that it's not all that helpful. You often also get people with eyebrows looking like a water painting... with a single brush. Lots of fine detail gets lost.
This you're less likely to see on the D40 (I haven't seen most of that up to ISO 800 in jpegs straight out from the camera).
 
The worst thing ever has happened :gag: Dpreview have just posted their full review of the Nikon D60. So I am now able to view side by side the test shot they do which has the Martini bottle, playing card etc in it.

Looking at these.... you are not going to believe this.... but the D40X to me is far superior picture than the D40/D60 :bonk:
 
Gazza_UK said:
Looking at these.... you are not going to believe this.... but the D40X to me is far superior picture than the D40/D60 :bonk:
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How are they superior?

The only difference I can see between those two is high ISO performance, even in jpegs.
The D40x tends to get those fuzzy edges compacts have due to in-camera post processing.
I haven't noticed it with the D40.
Just look at ISO 1600 shots.
 
I feel you are getting caught in a "what bits and bobs" trap.

By all means use the reviews as a guide but remember it is only the opinion of the writer.

Any of the cameras you mention will suffice, the only constant and the thing that will take great pictures with them is the head behind the camera.

So you already have the important bit, you just need the tool to capture your creativity.

Buy one and get out there.:)
 
Slapo said:
How are they superior?

The only difference I can see between those two is high ISO performance, even in jpegs.
The D40x tends to get those fuzzy edges compacts have due to in-camera post processing.
I haven't noticed it with the D40.
Just look at ISO 1600 shots.
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Sorry wrong choice of words.... looks better to me when compared side by side.... was what I should have said :)
 
PsiFox said:
I feel you are getting caught in a "what bits and bobs" trap.

By all means use the reviews as a guide but remember it is only the opinion of the writer.

Any of the cameras you mention will suffice, the only constant and the thing that will take great pictures with them is the head behind the camera.

So you already have the important bit, you just need the tool to capture your creativity.

Buy one and get out there.:)
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I think I am the tool at the moment :) Not sure whether its a good or bad thing, but I just can not help but read read read.
 
Gazza_UK said:
I think I am the tool at the moment :) Not sure whether its a good or bad thing, but I just can not help but read read read.
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In that case, I suggest writing down your requirements, decide which ones have a higher priority and use what you're read so far to decide.

Images often speak for themselves, though.
 
Slapo said:
In that case, I suggest writing down your requirements, decide which ones have a higher priority and use what you're read so far to decide.

Images often speak for themselves, though.
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I have done that to death already :)

Amazon UK now have the new D60 with VR lens for £423 and Nikon are now offering £40 cashback and 2 year warranty.

So that's £383 for the new D60 and the D40X which has now been discontinued is £380... and the D40 is £244 after cashback.
 
Slapo said:
The more you'll wait, the harder it'll get.
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Have been following this thread for a while.

Whilst I understand you are being cautious - as you want to make right decision etc. I feel you are over doing it!

Reviews are great on all cameras you are looking at - and they are all pretty similar. It really is down to your budget.

If it is purely down to budget - go for the d40. And remember bodies are upgraded all the time - the key is to invest in quality glass.

If you are unsure - which it has been coming across lately that you are - it makes sense to spend the least by getting the d40. Then if it is not for you - you can sell it on - and you haven't lost out by much.

Just my opinions - of course!

:)
 
I personally don't think I am over doing it, but hey that's just my opinion ;)

Any investment in life is an important one... no matter what the cost really. Well that's how I view it anyway :)

I am in a position where if I so want to I can buy either one of cameras mentioned. I consider dpreview to be quite good with their reviews. Also you have the opportunity to download the sample pictures at full res. I have done this for all 3 cameras and all of the images look very good.

What makes it a nightmare here for me especially and I am sorry for going on and on... I am sure many are saying "the sooner he buys a bloody camera the better"... is that not one of these cameras comes across as really bad. So bad in fact that you can easily eliminate it from your list.

In all the years of researching things and buying... I have never been faced with a situation like this where its so hard to cross one off and say "that one is rubbish". I was certain it was the D40... but its such a hard call its untrue.

I am just going on a journey now to a proper camera shop that I know of.... where I certainly hope the guy I speak to in there does not open with "its all about the number of pixels" as the guy did in the last shop I went into.
 
Gazza_UK said:
... I am sure many are saying "the sooner he buys a bloody camera the better"...
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That made me laugh a lot mate.....:lol:

All the cameras are good, its the person behind the camera that makes the photo....:thumbs:

I wish you`d buy one quickly simply for the reason that we can then move onto which lenses you should buy.....:D
 
Gazza_UK said:
I am just going on a journey now to a proper camera shop that I know of.... where I certainly hope the guy I speak to in there does not open with "its all about the number of pixels" as the guy did in the last shop I went into.
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Don't ask the shop guy, he's likely to confuse you further.

But really, what are your priorities?

Gazza_UK said:
My subjects of interest are:

Macro shots of flowers insects etc.
Wildlife
Landscapes
Planes
Fireworks
Family pics
Buildings
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Any of the cameras on your list can handle that well, if they're anything like my D50, which they seem to be, judging so from the sample shots all over the Internet.

So how should you decide?
Ergonomics seem to be very similar, although the D60 could be a little different.

If you're in need of better high ISO performance, you don't need to crop and if you'd like to spend more on the lenses, the D40 should be a safe bet.

If you need more resolution for printing sizes over A4 a lot (with decent lenses, A3 should look good from a 6 MP camera too), you know you'll crop a lot or if you don't need the high ISO performance the D40 offers (which I think you'll find very handy), then grab the D40x or the D60, whichever appeals to you more. If the D40x and D60 are priced the same, get the D60.

I think that really is all there's to it.
 
Slapo said:
If the D40x and D60 are priced the same, get the D60.

I think that really is all there's to it.
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Got to agree with that - to me - it is between cheaper d40 or d60.

Makes no sense to get d40x if d60 is so similar in price - especially as d60 comes with VR kit lens.

:)
 
Gazza just go and buy a camera - you could be out taking pics! ;)
 
I had a similar dilemma. I owned an FZ5 and decided I loved the long zoom so a DSLR was out of the question. I quickly ordered a FZ18. While waiting for that to arrive I called into Jessops. Played around with a D40, 400D, K100 Super and of course a compact zoom.
Immediately I realised I should have gone down the DSLR route. So I cancelled the FZ18 and after lots (like you) of consideration bought a D40.
WOW I have no regrets at all, colours, quality and general feel of the camera is everything I hoped for. Still using kit lens and eventually will upgrade. IMO with the currant prices of the D40 it a great deal.
 
I too had a similar dilemma about 6 months ago. I was torn between the D40, D40x and canon 450D. After much research (and thats no understatement), and many trips to Jessops, and other local camera shops.....i decided to go for the Nikon D40x. I definetly prefered the handling of the nikon d40x, and the quality of the pictures are fantastic. In all honesty, i feel that either of the Nikons you are torn over are great. I wish you the best for deciding on which one to go for. I'm sure you'll love whichever one you'll choose
 
Gazza I also took forever agonising over which DSLR to get and spent many hours reading through reviews and hoping from one model to the next.

There is some great advise on this thread and any of the models you have mentioned are more than up to the task.

My mate finally kicked me up the behind and told me to just go out and buy the best I could afford either new or second and once I started to use it and choose what I wanted to shoot, that would dictate what lens and additional kit I would want/need.
 
Hi Gazza sorry if this makes your head hurt but ive just purchased my first Dslr in the shape of the D60 with 18-55vr all i can say is superb i borrowed a mates D40 for a week before i bought it, both have good IQ and are simple to use i went for latest spec plus the processing engine is the same as the top end Nikons also i found the D60 just seemed that much quicker to use but either way both are good hth.

Michael.
 
At this moment in time I have put my purchase on hold as I really can not make my mind up at all.

I went to a different camera shop over Easter and the guy in this shop REALLY knew his stuff. Was a joy to to talk to him and he put no pressure on me to buy anything. Was quite happy explaining things to me and let me handle any camera I wanted.

One thing that really shocked me was the size of the 70-300 lens.... its a beast.

In a way its made me think, will I really get into all this? Will it just be a phase and then end up getting sold as I don't use it as much. Am I 'that' interested to end up shelling out on all the additional accessories. Can I really be bothered messing about in editing software to make the pictures even better or correct things?

Far too many variables at the moment, hence why I am putting this potentially expensive layout on hold for now.

So for now I am looking at a P&S compact and at the moment the Canon PowerShot 720 IS seems to get excellent reviews. Canon are offering £30 cashback on this but only if its purchased from Jessops. So with the 10% Jessops voucher and the Cashback from Canon, it can be had for Just short of £105 delivered = bargain.

I also have the option to play with manual settings.

Gets top marks for image quality and macro functionality and crap marks for the flash. As you have to wait 8-10 seconds before you can use it again.

My order has to be placed between now and March 31st, when the offer ends.
 
I purchased the Canon A720IS and it will be with me Thurs April 3rd :)

Looking forward to playing with it and hopefully getting some good pics.

I can learn how to use the manual settings and its cost me less than £105. If I get into the manual thing and I like... then I can take it to another level with a DSLR.

But if I find I just revert back to auto all the time... then its cost me next to nothing and still got a very good camera for the money.

Personally for me being so undecided on what to do... I think I made the right decsion here in the end.
 
I'm sure you made the right decision for you Gazza. :thumbs:
 
Gazza,

Having followed this thread since you started it, I have to say that I am very happy for you for taking that step. The issue of what to buy is traumatising, especially for someone who is about to step in new.

I have to say one thing more, if I may, bout SLRs and your decision ... SLRs are not just about the manual settings! One of the great features of SLRs is their limitless flexibility with the lenses!

Yes, you've done the right thing buy trying out something less costly ... but the step into the SLR world offers a whole new "approach" to photography ...

... with that said, allow me tell you that the worst thing a person can do is to buy the best gear his / her money can buy but then never carry it because of it being too complicated / too heavy etc. So, in the end, it comes down to what will YOU carry to take "that" picture?

I hope your new camera brings you 1,000s of happy clicks.
 
Its arrived :clap: but no chance of going out with it today... got plenty of housework to do.. (washing/ironing/cleaning) a mans work is never done you know :lol:
 
I am updating this thread again. I sold the A720IS, I just could not cope with the crap flash cycle.

Managed to bag the last Canon 950IS from Argos a while back when they brought it down from £349 to £179 :) Really like this camera.

But as always I can not help but look at all the pics taken on here by the Nikon D40/D60. Always gets me really interested. But I just know if I shelled the money out I would not stick at it. I am such an arse when it comes to stuff like this. Can never motivate myself to do anything, a fault of mine for many years :(

So bloody tempted and with the current cash back offer ending on Sunday too.
 
Jessops have the D60 with VR lens at £379 which is only £80 more than the D40 and you get £60 if you buy by the 31st AUG you only get £40 if you buy the D40
 
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