Novices head about to explode - Nikon D40 or D60, which lens etc...

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Gazza_UK

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Hi everyone,

For the past few weeks I have been reading review after review on all things DSLR. Always had P&S compact and never messed with any settings as its all over my head.

I have viewed so many fantastic pictures it just breath taking at what you can achieve with the right gear. I am not loaded, so on a budget to get me into all this, but want to make sure I have the right things.

I have read no end of fantastic reviews on the Nikon D40, in fact I don't think I have found a negative one. I am also now reading good reviews on the D60. Digital Photo Magazine has just given it an excellent review.

Both are within my buying range but is the D60 worth the extra £150-£170 over the D40?

A couple of reasons for wanting to get in to this... is to get off my back side and get out and about. Plus next year I hit the big 40 and will be doing a 16 day tour of Western America. Taking in Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam... to name just a few :)

So the potential for some fantastic pictures. Also I will be going to the British Fireworks Championships and also the Airshow @ Southport later in the year.

My subjects of interest are:

Macro shots of flowers insects etc.
Wildlife
Landscapes
Planes
Fireworks
Family pics
Buildings

Another thing with the big holiday next year is some shots will be taken while passing things on the coach.

For lenses, I would like your opinions on what I have sort of selected so far.

For Macro I have been recommended the Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Macro DI

The kit lens should do me for day to day stuff, like the family photos, landscapes etc.

Then to get some zoom capability, I was thinking of the Nikon AF-S 55-200mm VR. But I know this would not be powerful enough for some decent wildlife photography.

One last question... what is the 10-20mm lens used for? I see this in a lot of profile sigs.

Sorry for the life story but I wanted to give as much info as possible in my opening post.

Any comments advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Gazza.
 
Personally, I would say that the D60 doesn't offer that much more over the D40 that justifies that extra price premium. I recently bought a brand new D40x for £310 and I was contemplating waiting for the D60, but it just didn't have anything extra that I thought justified that £170 price difference.

The extra £170 would buy you a 55-200 VR, a memory card and a UV filter. The simple fact is, the D40 takes fantastic pictures in the right hands, but if you have the money and want the latest model, the D60 is probably a safe bet too.

If you're on a tight budget, I would go with the D40 because you can get them for £270 and then £30 cashback from Nikon, compared to ~£440 for the D60 with VR kit lens.

One piece of advice I would offer is: Don't buy every accessory under the sun until you're sure you need it. Thus far, I've only bough a memory card, UV filter and polariser for my D40x. I had planned on extra batteries, tripod, extra lenses, bag etc, but to be honest I still don't know 100% where I'm going with my photography. When I feel I need a telephoto or macro lens, I've got the money to buy it, but until I feel severly limited by my lens choice, I won't be buying stuff until I have a use for it.

Practice is more important than fancy equipment and lenses in my opinion.
 
Gazza_UK said:
Hi everyone,

For the past few weeks I have been reading review after review on all things DSLR. Always had P&S compact and never messed with any settings as its all over my head.

I have viewed so many fantastic pictures it just breath taking at what you can achieve with the right gear. I am not loaded, so on a budget to get me into all this, but want to make sure I have the right things.
Click to expand...

Gazza mate, it's wrong to think that buying the expensive gear guarantees you breathtaking pics - it doesn't. Lots of stunning pics are taken with modest equipment. At the stage you're at now, my advice is get a DSLR body and probably the kit lens. It's not a horse race, you don't have to buy all the gear at once. You just can't give enough consideration to the lenses you buy, so add them as and when you feel the need based on what you're shooting and where you feel you're ill equipped.
I have read no end of fantastic reviews on the Nikon D40, in fact I don't think I have found a negative one. I am also now reading good reviews on the D60. Digital Photo Magazine has just given it an excellent review.

Both are within my buying range but is the D60 worth the extra £150-£170 over the D40?

A couple of reasons for wanting to get in to this... is to get off my back side and get out and about. Plus next year I hit the big 40 and will be doing a 16 day tour of Western America. Taking in Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam... to name just a few :)

So the potential for some fantastic pictures. Also I will be going to the British Fireworks Championships and also the Airshow @ Southport later in the year.

My subjects of interest are:

Macro shots of flowers insects etc.
Wildlife
Landscapes
Planes
Fireworks
Family pics
Buildings

Another thing with the big holiday next year is some shots will be taken while passing things on the coach.

For lenses, I would like your opinions on what I have sort of selected so far.

For Macro I have been recommended the Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Macro DI

The kit lens should do me for day to day stuff, like the family photos, landscapes etc.

Then to get some zoom capability, I was thinking of the Nikon AF-S 55-200mm VR. But I know this would not be powerful enough for some decent wildlife photography.

One last question... what is the 10-20mm lens used for? I see this in a lot of profile sigs.

Sorry for the life story but I wanted to give as much info as possible in my opening post.

Any comments advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Gazza.
Click to expand...

The 10-20mm is an ultra wide zoom lens. These ultra wide lenses, around 10mm, have been developed specially because of the reduced field of view on a crop sensor camera which considerably narrows the wide angle view of conventional wide angle lenses of around 17mm or so. Both the bodies you mention are crop sensor ones, so would benefit from the increased field of view of the 10-20mm lens
 
Gazza_UK said:
Plus next year I hit the big 40 and will be doing a 16 day tour of Western America. Taking in Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam... to name just a few :)


Gazza.
Click to expand...

Been there done that :) The Grand Canyon and Yosemite were the highlights for me. Still think Yosemite is one of the best places I have photographed.

I can only echo the other advice. Get the kit lens, learn how to use it, then decide on more toys.

To get the best of the camera with landscapes you need to learn composition and how to pick the best settings yourself and not leave the camera on auto. That learning will be your best investment.
 
I agree learn how to use your camera before buying loads of accessories.

Don't let the camera decide all the moves on auto, play with it photograph everything and anything, the cat, the dog, the wallpaper, the garden, etc. get to know your camera before shooting the important things.

I would add however a decent tripod is very high on the list of accessories.
I'd be lost without mine.

Good luck Gazza
 
Many thanks for all your kind replies, very much appreciated. When I said 'breath taking pictures' I was just meaning some of the pictures I have looked at on these forums and others. By that I was referring to how crisp and sharp these pictures look compared to some I have taken with my TZ3 and other compact camera pictures I have viewed.

I suppose a lot of the pictures viewed on here though are not the true picture and have received some form of touching up. So I might be getting the wrong impression on what a camera can actually do, when its the users ability in photoshop to tidy them afterwards. Obviously being very good with the camera is a must... but I am sure the nifty work in photoshop afterwards is really helping some of these pictures... or am I getting that wrong?

I fully appreciate what people are saying with learning how to use the camera etc... but I am going to be limited in the type of shots I can get with the kit lens. I love to take very close up pics of flowers in the spring/summer...and I like insect pictures. Also very keen on wildlife pics. So the kit lens is not going to bode well is it for these type of shots? Also for zoom capabilities I am going to be very limited I think.

The problem I am finding here is the terminology is quite overwhelming for someone who has no idea what it really means. Reading a book is not the answer for me, I would much prefer some 'hands on' experience at a novices class or something. But finding something like that within ear shot is not very easy. I am going to email my local college and see what they have to offer... if anything.

One minute I am nearly ordering a Nikon online and then the next I am sat here wondering if I am doing the right thing.

Nothing in life is ever straight forward :(
 
LOL. Don't get disheartened Gaz, it's just well meant advice, which you're free to ignore, including mine. :D

Many of us here who've made the swap from film to digital are still coming to terms with the implications and terminology of the new media, so it's bound to be a bit bewildering for the newcomer.

It's a popular misconception that the shots which come out of a digital camera are a 'done deal' and they almost always need some additional processing to bring out the best in them.
 
I hope I did not come across in an ungrateful way then.. it was certainly not meant to be like that if it has.

All the advice is very much appreciated.... helps with the eventual head explosion :lol:

I know this is a very serious road to go down and its just plucking up the courage to take that leap.
 
antar said:
Do it Gaz it's very rewarding :-)
Click to expand...

:agree:

If photography is what you like - you can't go wrong with a DSLR.

However - as others have said - keep you start-up kit to a minimum, until you are sure which direction you want to go in.

Also - I would probably go for d40x if I was in your position - a great starting camera. d60 doesn't justify extra dosh IMO.

:)
 
This is where it gets really difficult for me. D40/D40X or D60. From what i have been reading many seem to favour the D40 as being a better camera than the 40X.

This gives a side by side comparison of all 3 cameras.

D40 = £269.99
D40X = £399.97
D60 = £445

So again we are back at the is the D40x Worth £130 more? That saving would get me the Nikon 55-200mm lens.

Oh eck its doing my head in this... bit early to hit the bottle :lol:
 
i have a bridging camera fuji s8000, i am still learning how to use the settings e.g aperture shutter speed iso settings ect. i did think that i would not be able to take as clear a photo as some you see on tp, however i am very impressed with what i can i achieve, moral of the story, more money doesnt gurantee perfect pics unless you know how to get the best out of the camera....
p.s i cant wait till i can afford a proper dslr though lol....
 
The more I read the more I dig a deeper hole for myself. I think the best thing for me to do is get the D40. Start cheap and if say in 18-24 months I fancy an upgrade, then I can buy a more up market Nikon body and any lenses I have already purchased can be used in the newer model.

The Nikon D40 really does get some outstanding reviews in the UK/USA/CA.
 
The truth is any body, even the cheapest entry level DSLR is more than capable of taking excellent images. Sadly, in the entry and prosumer brackets, new models are getting launched about every 18 months, often less, and each time the value of the preceeding model drops like a brick.

It's building up a selection of good quality lenses which takes the time and the wonga, and which will make more impact on your images. Lenses keep their value far better in the long term too. ;)
 
Don't worry Gazz, we've all been through this dilemma ;) I spent weeks procrastinating over which camera to buy. Personally, if you're going to get the D40x, I would just spend a little more and get the D60 as it's got a VR lens for an extra £45. The D40x is a great little camera (I own one), but I only bought it because they were doing £40 cashback and I got a discount through some vouchers so total price was £310.

You'll be able to get the D40 for £240 with the £30 cashback from nikon, if it were my money, I'd go that route. You've then got £200 to play with which will get you a 55-200 VR, a memory card and a couple of filters.

I'm certainly no expert, but my understanding is that pretty much all of the shots you'll see on here go through some form of processing. They're good shots in their own right, but with a bit of tweaking in a software package like photoshop, you can really add that wow factor.

I'm sure it's possible to get that perfect shot that doesn't need any tweaking, but I'm just not that good a photographer (yet ;)), so rely on photoshop to rescue me from myself.
 
:agree:..with CT

The 40`s are limited in which lenses you can use,the 60 i`m not sure.Have you thought about a secondhand D70s, leaving you more spare wonga for better lenses?

I will buy the D300, when Nikon have brought another model out and they drop hundreds of pounds overnight, should have done the same with my D200......:bonk:
 
From what I have read as long as I buy the new AF-S and with VR ones, then I will be fine. Would there be any reason why I would be wanting to buy older style lenses over the newer ones?
 
If I were you, I'd go for the D40 with the double zoom kit if you don't intend to crop your shots a lot. I'm not sure if it sells with both 18-55 VR and 55-200 VR, but the non-VR variants are a good option too, as there seems to be little difference in optical quality.
On thing that bugs me about the D40, D40x and the D60 is that they only have three focus points. I have five on my D50 and I find myself switching between those quite often as I don't like recomposing with focus lock much.

Then try to work with the full manual mode, try using raw for better clarity and full control over post processing (both depend on the converter quite a bit).
Read this: http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=1175&page_number=1
and start taking and making photos. Try exposing to the right if you can, in layman's terms, try to get more 'peaks' on the right side of the histogram.
One of the best tips I ever received: don't rush your shots and try to think about what should and what should not be in the photo you want to take for a few seconds if you can. With faster action, you just have to think a few steps in advance.

I hope this helps.
 
I think I can rule the D60 out... so its between the D40 and D40X now.

After reading many other posts/reviews, the way I see it, is the advantage with the D40X is with cropping images due to the extra 4 mega pixels. Therefore if I am going to be doing some wildlife photography, then would I be right in saying I would need the D40X over the D40?

The focus points thing was like whoosh over the head :)

Until you start looking into something... you never really appreciate how complex something can be.
 
Yeah, the D40x or the D60 would be better there, I think.
This might be worth reading:
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D60/verdict.shtml
Gordon usually has some decent points.

You won't really know if it's the one for you unless you use it for a while, though.
I was researching for about 6 months before I asked for my D50, so I had a pretty good idea what I wanted and what I was going for.
 
I was until quite recently faced with the same dilemma as you and was advised to spend on the glassware (lenses) and get the most affordable body.I agree with some contributors that perhaps secondhand D40X (or even D80)might serve your purpose.I`m mighty green on such issues but just re-itterating advice I was given a few months ago. Good luck which ever route you choose!!!!
 
Just watched the video review on the D40/40X/60/80 and Canon 400 :eek:

Think I am on the verge of major heart failure here.

This really is a nightmare for me :(
 
Gazza_UK said:
This really is a nightmare for me :(
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In that case you should seriously think about what you require from the camera.

There's the Sony A200 too ;)

Don't forget you're buying into a system.

If you can, try to buy a second hand D80 still in warranty.
If not and you can't stretch for a new D80, then 400D is a good route. So seems to be the A200, though. Sony and Zeiss are adding lenses for the A mount, Sigma and Tamron have announced a few things for it too.

Did I forget to mention Pentax and Olympus? :p
I'd think about the used D80 I mentioned above if I were you, though.
 
I think the D80 is out of my league for a total novice... maybe something to move up to when I know more about what I am doing.

I think I have read far too much now.... it down to which particular ship I am going to board now. Which I don't see happening over night for now.

A big thanks to all the input from various people. much appreciated.
 
Don`t dismiss the D80 as this camera isn`t as menu bound as D40 and D40 x.The image quality is great even in my hands.Try and get your hands on one and the owner wil have to wrestle it back off you!!!!!
 
Now you see you have made look at the D80 in more detail now on dpreview.

A trip into town is on the cards in the morning to the camera shop. They have the D40/X and D80 but vastly overpriced. I feel cheeky getting loads of info from them and using the cameras only to come home and buy from someone else.

EDIT: Just watched the video review of the D80 @ cameralabs and he mentions there is no built in image stabilisation. But I take it you just buy a VR lens to overcome that. Am I right in thinking none of the models I have mentioned have stabilisation built in anyway?
 
None of the bodies mentioned have IS built-in Gazza. The superior system though is IS built into individual lenses - unfortunately it's a sight more costly.
 
Right its defo between the D40 and D40X as spending any more would just be crazy when I am only learning. In maybe 18-24 months time if I have really taken to this and picked up on it.... that will be the time to spend more money I think.

The sample shots from both cameras on dpreview are fantastic from my point of view. If could get pictures like that, then I would be very happy :)

Its just justifying the extra £130 between them.
 
Just to confuse you even more. I had absolutely no experience with dslrs at all just like yourself. I bought a D80 when they first came out. I was very surprised as to how easy it was to learn the basics and soon found myself addicted. When this happens, you find yourself wanting to progress even more.
I now have the D300 and can't recommend the D80 enough for you. Its excellent. Easy to learn the menu's on it and a pleasure to handle. I haven't held a D40, but you need to get down to the shops and try handling all 3 models. See how they 'fit' your hand. You may feel that the D80 feels more comfortable than the others. You may not!
Whatever you do, take your time in the shop and don't let the sales staff talk you into anything. If you come away still unsure, come back and ask more questions. Have fun shopping!
 
Personally (and this is just my opinion), if you don't want to spend the money on the D60, I would go for the D40. The D40x is a great little camera (I own one) but I don't think I would spend the extra over a D40 unless you're sure you'll be doing a lot of crops.

However, if you're going to spend £400 on the D40x, I'd say spend the extra £45 and get the D60, that way you get VR (the equivalent of IS) in the kit lens and a few other features along the way.

Just so you know, there is actually £160 price difference between the D40x and D40, Nikon are doing a cashback at the moment (http://www.nikon.co.uk/sites/cashback/spring2008_default.html).

Whatever camera you choose, you're going to be able to take great photos with it, so don't get too hung up on features and model numbers. My dad has a D200 and whilst it has more bells and whistles, ultimately it doesn't mean he automatically takes better photos than me. It's down to the person behind the camera and I have seen some stunning shots with the so called "entry level" DSLRs.
 
If its your first DSLR, as you state, then your options are these;

1.Buy a cheap 40 or 40x, you may not like photography with a DSLR, thus, you won`t lose too much money.However, be aware that you will be limited to certain lenses.Yes, the older lenses are, in certain circumstances, cheaper secondhand and better made.

2.If you do get the bug big time, then you will very quickly outgrow your 40 and want something better like an 80,200 etc etc.Why not start with a secondhand body as above and see how you progress? A secondhand £500 D200 will still be worth similar money in three months if you don`t get the bug.
 
kevshore said:
Just to confuse you even more. I had absolutely no experience with dslrs at all just like yourself. I bought a D80 when they first came out. I was very surprised as to how easy it was to learn the basics and soon found myself addicted. When this happens, you find yourself wanting to progress even more.
I now have the D300 and can't recommend the D80 enough for you. Its excellent. Easy to learn the menu's on it and a pleasure to handle.
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Couldnt agree with you more. My first dslr as a beginner and am so happy with it. I was saying to my tog friend ystday how it was my best buy in years. If new is out of your price range then maybe look second hand. Always plenty around.
 
D40 or D40X. IMO the D40X without a shout, the specs on the D40 were pretty much out of date when it was released. Does the camera have to be new, plenty of secondhand cameras out there - eg D80 with some lenses.
 
My only issue with second hand is if anything goes wrong with it and not knowing how its been looked after etc. Unless you know of some online stores that can be recommended for selling second hand ones?

Buying new at the moment on the D40/40X/80 will get me some cashback and a 2 year warranty.

Buying my 42" plasma was far easier than this :lol:
 
understand the concerns. Most of the secondhand dealer shops offer a reduced term warranty, but they also have to make a living out of this, so the difference between this and a new is not great. You could possibly look at refurbs, Canon sell refurbed cameras on Ebay, reasonable saving, plus a full warranty.

My gripe with the D40 is that it needs lenses with the AF motor in the lens, not the body, and its only fairly recently that the budget lens manufactuers such as Tamron and Sigma have started offering D40 compatible lenses - seems a mistake to offer a budget camera, yet force beginners who will want AF the most to buy from a restricted choice of expensive lenses.
 
Right just off into town to play with the D40/40X/80... life as I know it may never be the same again :)
 
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