Not Looking Good

It's a chilling tale. From what I understand, the only realistic hope is that they save themselves.
 
I was listening to world service last night with a piece by a reporter who had a trip in it.

It sounds very Heath Robinson compared to the high tech submersibles of the science & salvage type.

The one thing that stood out was that even if it has surfaced, the occupants can not get out because the hatch is sealed with 17 bolts from the outside.

It's apparent lack of 'failsafe' systems & procedures (emergency buoyancy, beacons, transponders etc) is lamentable. If all are lost, signed waivers aside, the outcome for the company and its officers will also not end well!!!!
 
Hopefully all will end well , However my thoughts are that it has imploded due to the enormus pressure at 2.5 miles down ( The pressure at a depth of 2.5 miles is about 400 atmospheres, 400 times the pressure on the surface and equivalent to half a tonne per square centimeter.) Hope I am wrong.
 
Box Brownie said:
I was listening to world service last night with a piece by a reporter who had a trip in it.

It sounds very Heath Robinson compared to the high tech submersibles of the science & salvage type.

The one thing that stood out was that even if it has surfaced, the occupants can not get out because the hatch is sealed with 17 bolts from the outside.

It's apparent lack of 'failsafe' systems & procedures (emergency buoyancy, beacons, transponders etc) is lamentable. If all are lost, signed waivers aside, the outcome for the company and its officers will also not end well!!!!
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My God.

Lets hope this ends well and that rules on this can be looked at and tightened as that above just doesn't seem to be a set up that should be allowed to set to sea.
 
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Whilst one has to hope all ends well, more money than sense comes to mind
 
This is the bad bit.


David Pogue, who went on board, reported that he read a waiver that described the submersible as an "experimental" vessel, "that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death".


My bold.
 
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woof woof said:
My God.

Lets hope this ends well and that rules on this can be looked at and tightened as that above just doesn't seem to be a set up that should be allowed to set to sea.
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As an aside to the way this is being reported.......

I read a Guardian update this morning and the names of those onboard IIRC do not tally with the/a name mentioned yesterday.

I can appreciate that wealthy people like privacy but bearing in mind this is now front page news, why the lack of clarity.

Oh, the article says it is believed that the CEO of Oceangate was onboard.

I agree that such submarine tourism needs much more oversight.

This type of tourism and the near space orbital flights are at the bleeding edge (exacerbated by, it seems, amateurism in this case) of what can be done. Almost like the days Dr Livingstone and African exploration.... i.e no guarantees of survival but the adventure is the key!

I am still intrigued that in all the stories so far the Oceangate company have not spoken about the mitigations in place for things that could go wrong. By implication there are few or none in place!!!!
 
Box Brownie said:
I am still intrigued that in all the stories so far the Oceangate company have not spoken about the mitigations in place for things that could go wrong. By implication there are few or none in place!!!!
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I think they might be busy right now.
 
when i read on this as well yesterday i thought wow absolutely nuts going down in that thing
hope it does end well but if they are on the bottom there is actually nothing that can rescue them.
 
Fuji Dave said:
This is the bad bit.


David Pogue, who went on board, reported that he read a waiver that described the submersible as an "experimental" vessel, "that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death".


My bold.
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And though a private enterprise, the international rescue effort will likely run into >$1M of public monies.
 
Mr Bump said:
hope it does end well but if they are on the bottom there is actually nothing that can rescue them.
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One report I did read late last night was, if they are tangled in the ship wreck then there is NO chance for them. As no sub in the world can do a rescue mission at that depth.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I think they might be busy right now.
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No doubt of that.......and until they make (more) official announcements, the press reports are to a degree speculation.
 
Fuji Dave said:
IMO they messed up, so they pay out and not with public money.
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Yes, it would a reasonable surmise that the private entities providing specialist support will send them a bill......but what about the US and Canadian naval & air services?

Not withstanding, the maritime obligation (?) of assistance to those in peril???
 
The situation in regard the experimental 'craft' aspect reminds me of the Apollo program.

NASA tested the Lunar Module (LM) systems in orbit and on earth BUT everytime the LM landed on the moon it was completely unknown whether the single engine would operate when leaving the moon to rejoin with the command module. If it failed those two astronauts were lost, the only practical difference is that Comms and location were without doubt!

Of course with Apollo 13, apart from the cause of the problem, no one thought they would need to modify the air scrubbers in flight but with the support on earth 'working the problem ' they found a solution.

The passengers & crew of the Titan are, it seems, not able to help themselves?

I hope they manage to locate the Titan submersible but that, whether on the surface or on the seabed, is when the situation becomes even more challenging!
 
Looks like a vessel with capability to reach the 'lost' vehicle is on the scene.
 
If they survive they'll certainly have a story to tell.

But I do think that in all this here is a bit too much risk. As the passengers seem to be rich people why not get a better craft with better safety features and more back up and just charge more.
 
Sometimes I wonder if it's hard to feel alive if you don't actually put yourself in harm's way a little. People need to be allowed to risk getting killed occasionally.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Sometimes I wonder if it's hard to feel alive if you don't actually put yourself in harm's way a little. People need to be allowed to risk getting killed occasionally.
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I'm usually not a big state person but I do think that sometimes people need protecting from their own stupidity.

I have a problem with this being an experimental craft as they've been doing this for years and although I may be making an unfair jump here I'd guess that any experimentation and development has long since finished and that continued clasification as an experimental craft is in reality just a legislation dodge. If that is indeed the case and this craft has reached the end of its experimental stage then it'd be time for it to stop getting by on a classification allowing it to be used without safety measures that other operational craft would need and time for it and its owners and operators to comply with the legislation other craft need to comply with.
 
woof woof said:
I'm usually not a big state person but I do think that sometimes people need protecting from their own stupidity.
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We will never be able to protect the super rich from anything. If a billionaire wants to do something, it gets done.

Don't forget that the out of thin air rescue costs of 1m are literally pocket change to a billionaire. It's proportionally the same as somebody on minimum wage spending a tenner but far far less when you think about disposable income.
 
ancient_mariner said:
People need to be allowed to risk getting killed occasionally.
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There are more than enough people put in harm's way against their will or to help others.

It's not unreasonable to take the view that those who put themselves in harms way, for no better reason than "because they can", should be left to deal with the consequences by themselves.
 
its certainly a rich mans game which i find odd , if i had the kind of money some of those people had i would be chasing bikinis not 4000m deep shipwrecks :-)
 
Fuji Dave said:
One report I did read late last night was, if they are tangled in the ship wreck then there is NO chance for them. As no sub in the world can do a rescue mission at that depth.
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Putin has a couple I hear, but he might have other things on his mind at the moment and unlikely want to help anyone who’s not already helping him.
 
They were warned back in 2018.


A submarine expert who worked for OceanGate – the company that operates the missing submersible – warned of potential safety problems in 2018, according to US court documents.

David Lochridge moved from Scotland to Washington state to work for the firm. In a BBC interview in 2017 he enthused about the mission and said it was "destined for the sea".

But less than a year later he warned his bosses that flaws in the Titan's carbon hull might go undetected without more stringent testing, and urged the company to have an outside agency certify the vessel.

He said his verbal warnings were ignored until he wrote a report and was called into a meeting with several officials - including OceanGate chief executive Stockton Rush, who is aboard the missing submersible.

OceanGate responded by firing Lochridge. The company sued him for revealing confidential information, and the submarine expert countersued for unfair dismissal. The lawsuit was later settled.

Through his lawyer, Lochridge declined to comment.

Court documents also state that Lochridge learned that the manufacturers of the Titan’s forward viewport only certified it to a depth of 1,300 metres. The Titanic wreck lies 3,800 metres below the ocean surface.
 
"... the Titan’s forward viewport only certified it to a depth of 1,300 metres. The Titanic wreck lies 3,800 metres below the ocean surface."

Reminds of the Prince song - Sign of the times (more money than sense).
 
In the USA, "Experimental" is used in order to avoid most if not all government certification requirements, it's not so much a descriptive word as a legislative category. In aviation there, an aircraft can be built and fly in the Experimental category which restricts the degree of FAA oversight to a very minimal level. In most cases that is ok, the aircraft are still perfectly airworthy, but it limits significantly the extent of litigation that can ensue if it crashes. I suspect that this is a significant issue in why the Titan is labelled Experimental as opposed to experimental (the capitalisation is the thing)
 
Fingers crossed for them, in that case.
 
Fuji Dave said:
If it's coming from them, lets hope they can rescue them in time.
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Even once found........

Should they have an ROV mothership on station it could take some hours to get to them.......let alone the time taken to free it from any debris and release them for what is likely a 2-3 rise to the surface....... time, time, time.....???
 
Box Brownie said:
Even once found........

Should they have an ROV mothership on station it could take some hours to get to them.......let alone the time taken to free it from any debris and release them for what is likely a 2-3 rise to the surface....... time, time, time.....???
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Sadly as everyone knows, time is badly against them, if they had a few more days then they might be lucky but with oxygen running out by 10am UK time I can't see it ending well.
 
Fuji Dave said:
Sadly as everyone knows, time is badly against them, if they had a few more days then they might be lucky but with oxygen running out by 10am UK time I can't see it ending well.
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Assuming they are all still alive. Half as many people would have twice as long, right?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Assuming they are all still alive. Half as many people would have twice as long, right?
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True as the last time any noise was heard was Tuesday and nothing since then, sadly I think they have either died already or will do very soon as not enough time now for them sadly.
 
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