Not in my back yard ... surely? *We have EVEN MORE cubs!*

[sphexx]

Well our little Fox cub is brave, if not a little foolish!

Very impressive, both the cub & your video. Reminds me of those shots of jackals teasing lions on a kill and skipping off .

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Looking good Stu, wouldn't have immediately guessed that was taken under artificial light ... what was she looking at?
Look forward to seeing how things progress.

Thanks buddy, the lights have been a huge learning curve and an eye opener Roger, the above comment is really quite lovely I wasn't expecting anyone to say that, cheers

. It's lovely mate using these LEDS. The foxes choose to come into the light and I don't have to worry about using flash or the flash scaring them

I think it's the light roger she's looking at. i'm not 100%. i've got a big old clematis on the side of the house, we have half a hunch an owl might sit up there on occassion but it's weird, all three foxes stare up there and spook, but we can't be utterly sure why and it happens often. i'm as sure as II can be they stare at the lights though.

I need the wind I got a hatful of the cub last night fella simply could not hear the shutter. due to the gale you throw away alot because the SS is low, and light levels are low. but finally I actually know I can do this IE take some stills under continuous lights

It's just nice to finally have a chance at a few stills Roger,hard to put that into words, how much that means right now I honestly thought it wasn't ever going to be possible. To also have a few images that are ok to look at is even more surprising to me a bit having me cake and eat it. . I'm so tired it's untrue buddy but can't stop smiling. . Jeepers I even got a drinking shot, last night due to you popping an idea in my head. Just two days back the pond went in. and already it's working Couldn't make it up !!

Hmm plastic

 

[gramps]

Thanks buddy, the lights have been a huge learning curve and an eye opener Roger, the above comment is really quite lovely I wasn't expecting anyone to say that, cheers

. It's lovely mate using these LEDS. The foxes choose to come into the light and I don't have to worry about using flash or the flash scaring them

I think it's the light roger she's looking at. i'm not 100%. i've got a big old clematis on the side of the house, we have half a hunch an owl might sit up there on occassion but it's weird, all three foxes stare up there and spook, but we can't be utterly sure why and it happens often. i'm as sure as II can be they stare at the lights though.

I need the wind I got a hatful of the cub last night fella simply could not hear the shutter. due to the gale you throw away alot because the SS is low, and light levels are low. but finally I actually know I can do this IE take some stills under continuous lights

It's just nice to finally have a chance at a few stills Roger,hard to put that into words, how much that means right now I honestly thought it wasn't ever going to be possible. To also have a few images that are ok to look at is even more surprising to me a bit having me cake and eat it. . I'm so tired it's untrue buddy but can't stop smiling. . Jeepers I even got a drinking shot, last night due to you popping an idea in my head. Just two days back the pond went in. and already it's working Couldn't make it up !!

Hmm plastic

Always good when a plan comes to fruition Stu, especially when it's taken a lot of effort.

 

[JohnC6]

Interesting input Stu, thanks.
I find myself wondering, where have the other two cubs been until now?
Urban foxes are certainly numerous in the city so I can certainly believe that territories would overlap, food isn't such a problem for them as rural foxes so I'm guessing that there wouldn't need to be such rivalry but I don't know that.
Fun trying to find out though.

Roger..After viewing all those foxes I thought well, that’s just your garden..maybe their territory just covers your local area and if this is typical there must be quite a population in Bristol.

Looks like there is . Third highest in the UK https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-third-highest-uk-urban-26337

 

[sphexx]

Roger..After viewing all those foxes I thought well, that’s just your garden..maybe their territory just covers your local area and if this is typical there must be quite a population in Bristol.

Looks like there is . Third highest in the UK https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-third-highest-uk-urban-26337

Aren’t Bristol urban foxes the most filmed in the U.K. due to BBC Natural History Unit being based there? Whiteladies Road? Or is my memory going?

 

[gramps]

Aren’t Bristol urban foxes the most filmed in the U.K. due to BBC Natural History Unit being based there? Whiteladies Road? Or is my memory going?

That is correct and as said earlier the Bristol University run a study of foxes, particularly uban foxes in and around Bristol.

 

[gramps]

Double trouble for the Badger last night, I wonder if she gets indigestion!

 

[JohnC6]

Aren’t Bristol urban foxes the most filmed in the U.K. due to BBC Natural History Unit being based there? Whiteladies Road? Or is my memory going?

Now you mention it, Richard, I do recall a documentary from Bristol.

 

[gramps]

Well after all of the hassle with the Fox cubs, Mr Badger brought reinforcements last night ... Mrs Badger came to join him!
The is only the second time we have seen two Badgers in the garden, the first time being just the barest glimpse of a second pair of eyes and striped head weeks ago,
Unfortunately, at the top corner, (out of camera sight), two sets of powerful claws dug up all of the earth that I had restored to level just a few days ago!

The youngest Fox cub still likes to hang around with her parents, begging food or sharing feeding opportunities.
She occasionally gets a rebuff reminding her that she needs to start looking after herself but the parents are fairly affable toward her.
Here she gets an initial rebuff and then searches for the bits of biscuit that I hide amongst the stones on the dry stone wall, however dad soon relents and puts up with her sharing the food ... for a while.

 

[gramps]

... and a very brief early evening visit from one of the youngsters, evidently disturbed as she hot-footed it out through the back hedge!

 

[Tringa]

Double trouble for the Badger last night, I wonder if she gets indigestion!

More good video clips there, Gramps. Bit of dicing with death(or at least a nasty bite). I assume the foxes rely on their speed and hope the badger never gets close enough to catch them, but entertaining to see.

Dave

 

[gramps]

More good video clips there, Gramps. Bit of dicing with death(or at least a nasty bite). I assume the foxes rely on their speed and hope the badger never gets close enough to catch them, but entertaining to see.

Dave

The Badger has been very tolerant of the cubs up until now but I think this one has blotted their copy books!

 

[Tringa]

The Badger has been very tolerant of the cubs up until now but I think this one has blotted their copy books!

In my very limited experience of watching, or seeing badgers via a trail camera, I'm surprised by how quickly they can move.

Dave

 

[gramps]

In my very limited experience of watching, or seeing badgers via a trail camera, I'm surprised by how quickly they can move.

Dave

You are right, it is quite surprising ... built like a tank but no slouch!
A few weeks ago one of the cubs went almost nose to nose as the Badger was feeding and there was little reaction, I think it would be very foolish to do that now,

 

[gramps]

@Tringa She's definitely a chancer!

 

[Gremlin]

Don't you think it would be better to put out 2 food dishes at a distance from each other before you have a nasty injury
on video ?

 

[gramps]

Don't you think it would be better to put out 2 food dishes at a distance from each other before you have a nasty injury
on video ?

I put down bits of food on the grass and along the wall that can be seen at the back.
Do you think they would observe social distancing, Ingrid, even if I put up signs 'Badger Only' & 'Fox Only' ?
What would happen when one dish was empty?
What would happen when one decides he/she prefers the other dish?
They come via the same route, the same tree-line, the same hole and the same path, I'm sure if they don't meet in my garden they will meet somewhere else - they are wild creatures.

As an aside, I don't think food is the issue here, the cub is interested in the Badger ... watch the begining of the clip, she follows the Badger in, then it's the Badger she approaches, not the food.

 

[sphexx]

Don't you think it would be better to put out 2 food dishes at a distance from each other before you have a nasty injury
on video ?

It’s not the way most animals think. I’ve fed mainly blackbirds with a long line of small piles of food and there can be 10 or more feeding but they spend a lot of time scrapping with each other and swapping places.

Another example. I had two male dogs that got on well with each other and never scrapped over food. If I gave each of them a big beef bone in the garden I always placed them well apart (dogs ... bones ). They would gnaw at the bones but always moving them closer to each other then, then a certain amount of growling + gnawing until, seemingly at a signal, they would swap places suddenly and carry on. The grass is always greener ... .

 

[Gremlin]

Another example. I had two male dogs that got on well with each other and never scrapped over food. If

I had 4 male dogs and just put 4 bowls down and yes they swapped around same with bones, birds too shared all the feeders
lots of noise but rarely any contact

But we are talking a badger and a young inexperienced fox who could potentially receive some serious
injury before it learns to leave the badger alone

Last time I put my camera out I caught a fox actually taking a hedgehog around the snout and carrying off
I have always been told foxes don't attack hedgehogs unless they are injured, We have at least 2 3 legged hedgehogs round here so not an isolated incident.
As a result I no goner leave food out, further investigation it seems the foxes know where the food is and
visit these places frequently, showing no interest in the food, hoping to see a hedgehog, on the plus hedge hogs are
getting wiser too

I'm not suggesting something as stupid as labeling dishes just trying a couple to see what happens, surely worth it rather the an injured cub

 

[sphexx]

I had 4 male dogs and just put 4 bowls down and yes they swapped around same with bones, birds too shared all the feeders
lots of noise but rarely any contact

But we are talking a badger and a young inexperienced fox who could potentially receive some serious
injury before it learns to leave the badger alone

Last time I put my camera out I caught a fox actually taking a hedgehog around the snout and carrying off
I have always been told foxes don't attack hedgehogs unless they are injured, We have at least 2 3 legged hedgehogs round here so not an isolated incident.
As a result I no goner leave food out, further investigation it seems the foxes know where the food is and
visit these places frequently, showing no interest in the food, hoping to see a hedgehog, on the plus hedge hogs are
getting wiser too

I'm not suggesting something as stupid as labeling dishes just trying a couple to see what happens, surely worth it rather the an injured cub

I definitely wasn’t accusing you of being stupid! . Sorry if it came across like that. Foxes are smart . From what I’ve seen with dogs it obvios that badgers will have no problem killing hedgehogs, at leat immature ones, and I’m pretty sure the same applies to foxes. The example you give of a fox catching one by the head is obviously one way.

Unfortunately people/organisations that “like” foxes always seem to want to portray them as “cuddly’ . It’s the same with raptors, the RSPB and others always tend to stress how this or that raptor feeds mainly on carrion or insects and so on. And of course “badgers only eat earthworms” is another one that I’ve seen a lot over the years .

 

[gramps]

I definitely wasn’t accusing you of being stupid! . Sorry if it came across like that. Foxes are smart . From what I’ve seen with dogs it obvios that badgers will have no problem killing hedgehogs, at leat immature ones, and I’m pretty sure the same applies to foxes. The example you give of a fox catching one by the head is obviously one way.

Unfortunately people/organisations that “like” foxes always seem to want to portray them as “cuddly’ . It’s the same with raptors, the RSPB and others always tend to stress how this or that raptor feeds mainly on carrion or insects and so on. And of course “badgers only eat earthworms” is another one that I’ve seen a lot over the years .

Badgers definitely will take hedgehogs if their regular food is in short supply, it's rarer for foxes to do so.
Hedgehog Street.

 

[Tringa]

I put down bits of food on the grass and along the wall that can be seen at the back.

I think that might be the way forward. You could put the same amount of food out but scatter it in the grass within the field of view of the camera.

However, as you say the fox is quite interested in the 'strange' animal in its area and foxes are just very inquisitive.

And of course “badgers only eat earthworms” is another one that I’ve seen a lot over the years .

I've often wondered about that one too. The area where I have seen badgers over a number of years is in NW Scotland. The soil, because of the rainfall, is often either very wet or even waterlogged and it is also acid, so there are very few earthworms, but the badgers do very well on some other food.

Dave

 

[Gremlin]

obvios that badgers will have no problem killing hedgehogs,

Badgers have no problems with adult hedgehogs, their long claws mean they can just prize them open, we don't have any urban badgers around here atm but they are known hedgehog predators

Foxes pot so much and previously my filmed interaction with hedgehogs was ignoring each other, recently though the
hedgehogs are very wary if they see a fox

But that aside I would still hate to see a badger injure a fox cub caught on camera

 

[Gremlin]

“badgers only eat earthworms” is another one that I’ve seen a lot over the years

Badgers are omnivores so they eat a lot more then worms

 

[gramps]

But that aside I would still hate to see a badger injure a fox cub caught on camera

Having watched the interactions between the Foxes and Badgers in the garden for the last three months I seriously doubt that such an injury is going to occur, the Badger does not seem inclined to pursue and even when 'nipped' on the ankle by the Vixen some weeks ago did not pursue her but quickly went back to the food.
The same with the cub a few days back when it tugged his tail, it did not pursue her but merely turned and saw her off then went back to the food ... probably a good reason to keep the main food point where it is.

 

[gramps]

4th July in the garden!

Decided to do a compilation of all of the video activity in the garden last night, 82 short clips from the Browning trail camera, compiled together to make a video of around 28 minutes ... is that a short wildlife production?

For the less 'dedicated' a couple of shorter 'extracts' to follow.

 

[gramps]

Two of the Fox cubs meet for a play-squabble.

Badger and Fox cub continue to learn to coexist.

View: https://youtu.be/FweUoWecmyQ

 

[Stuart Philpott]

4th July in the garden!

Decided to do a compilation of all of the video activity in the garden last night, 82 short clips from the Browning trail camera, compiled together to make a video of around 28 minutes ... is that a short wildlife production?

For the less 'dedicated' a couple of shorter 'extracts' to follow.

No buddy 28 mins is a full bore wildlife production ,but that's ok you are in bristol you are meant to be making things like the " planet fox" or " fox earth 11"

That's what Bristolian film makers do init ?

 

[gramps]

No buddy 28 mins is a full bore wildlife production ,but that's ok you are in bristol you are meant to be making things like the " planet fox" or " fox earth 11"

That's what Bristolian film makers do init ?

I like the idea of "The Badger Boy"

 

[Stuart Philpott]

works for me

I best go to bed mate before I get all of us introuble

 

[gramps]

@Stuart Philpott
The little'un is getting a bit braver now with early morning visits ... much to the disgust of the Magpie family!

 

[gramps]

Most of the Fox family visited last night.

I sent an email to the Avon Wildlife Trust to enquire about the situation with my visiting Badgers and Fox cubs and the possible danger to the cubs, I also sent them a link to one of the Badger/Cub Youtube videos ... I got the following reply:-

Hi Roger,

Thanks for getting in touch, its great to hear you’ve got so much wildlife visiting your garden! Lots of people feed foxes and badgers in their gardens, and as these species are using the same spaces anyway I wouldn’t be concerned about endangering the fox cubs. From your observations it doesn’t sound like they are doing anything more than giving them a little warning nip to remind them to stay out of their way when they’re eating!

I hope this helps,

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Hey buddy Roger tis time for you to get up early me thinks if cub keeps coming early there is fantastic potential there!! i've loved these vids bro but I've also admired you as a tog for yonks now,i'd love to see a few stills of these from ya............LMAO I'm not like I'm trying to turn you into a sleep deprived moron .....'erm honest Seriously though just a thought,

Buddy I have no idea how charlie and brock interact, in wild situations, it wouldn't surprise me if on an exceptioanly rare occassion ,the consequences might be grave for the cub . Simply young animals make mistakes nature is brutal and exception rare events do happen That said I can see no way to legislate for what I'd reason is a one in a million chance. even if you stopped feeding this particular cub and badger may well be meeting at another "food point" just up the road. I just can't yet see a way you could do better by them .

I haven't got brock here to the best on my knowledge, but I try as best I'm able to reason out every possible negative effect to me feeding these foxes. My biggest fear is the road and them crossing it to come here. But I sort of come to a similar conclusion if I stop feeding my fox family are not going to stop crossing roads, the potential danger doesn't go away it just gets moved away from my actions.

I'd sort of expect the type of answer you got from a wildlife trust mate, I personally see it slightly different because I feel there is always that remote chance a fluke chance of something bad happening nature works like that, but my conclusion is the same as their's. I can't find a reason to tell you to change what you are doing.

Lol someone mentioned I ought mow the lawn becuase of a bit grass Ya know that one bit of grass that is always in the wrong place. in an image ,we all have them.

I'd been sort of trying to leave things to create a more natural look.But now it's been mentioned i'm also fighting the law of sod, i'm completely screwed bascially : as you can imagine nearly every frame last night had that one blade of grass in just the wrong place.:banghead:

Hey ho mate looks like i'm going to have to mow lawn now it seems so damn OCD going around with the seceteurs but I was happy enough

 

[gramps]

Hey buddy Roger tis time for you to get up early me thinks if cub keeps coming early there is fantastic potential there!!

Yes I thought about that Stu but 5am start is a bit early now for an old-timer like me!

I went up last night just before 8pm when the camera starts whirring and there was the dad with littl'un, totally unphazed by me appearing at the top of the steps so I quietly walked back down to get the camera ... you know what happened then don't you, little'un gone! :banghead:

Did have a chat with dad for a bit though.











Did you mention grass?

 

[Stuart Philpott]

lol yup I did and begrudlingly I have done some damage to said grass Lovely images ha yup that is the way of it you walk into a situation no camera when one has camera subject gone!!

Dad's a nice second though mate my nut case went back to being a nutcase last night one press of shutter gone , I just can't make her out

To be fair mate I'm too old for what I'm doing, nowt get easier as we get older!!

 

[gramps]

my nut case went back to being a nutcase last night one press of shutter gone , I just can't make her out

I'm hoping that with the dad Fox being so 'friendly' one or more of the cubs will be a bit more accepting of me in the days ahead and I might be able to get some shots off.
Next big thing for the trail camera will be a visit from any of the Badger cubs, (assuming they have some), as it's about now when they should begin to start wandering away from the set.

 

[Mr Badger]

Next big thing for the trail camera will be a visit from any of the Badger cubs, (assuming they have some), as it's about now when they should begin to start wandering away from the set.

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of this sketch from the wonderful Fast Show comedy series when anyone mentions badger watching or young badgers! Cracks me up every time.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLdv6gler_M

Edit: I've found the rest of it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kkRUGnEWo4

bob fleming 3

bob fleming watching ... part 3

www.youtube.com

 

[Stuart Philpott]

yes off course I hadn't thought about badger cubs cor that would be nice. !!

Watch him mate although he's so laid back , he might be different with a cub in your prescence . I filmed a fox strike, think it was a mouse she struck at, it made me think about what I do . She was so fast I barely moved my hands. it was over .To my credit I read the situation I knew she had suddenly focused on something and maybe something was about to happen But simply she was so quick even with me being ready I still barely moved.

I don't think they would strike at us Roger, but its worth just popping up a note of caution as what I saw that night made me very aware I couldn't get out of her way or even defend my self as she would be on me before I could possibly react., I think little things like this again are worthy of sharing as none of us really knows what might happen next. To ,me these little things keep us sharp and aware of our subjects and what their body language is telling us

As I say mate the chance of that ever happening I think is utterly miniscule, But urban or rural they are still an apex hunter plus any animal can be unpredictable when they have little ones about. .

take care buddy

 

[gramps]

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of this sketch from the wonderful Fast Show comedy series when anyone mentions badger watching or young badgers! Cracks me up every time.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLdv6gler_M

He's got more hair than me ... but otherwise!

 

[gramps]

yes off course I hadn't thought about badger cubs cor that would be nice. !!

Watch him mate although he's so laid back , he might be different with a cub in your prescence . I filmed a fox strike, think it was a mouse she struck at, it made me think about what I do . She was so fast I barely moved my hands. it was over .To my credit I read the situation I knew she had suddenly focused on something and maybe something was about to happen But simply she was so quick even with me being ready I still barely moved.

I don't think they would strike at us Roger, but its worth just popping up a note of caution as what I saw that night made me very aware I couldn't get out of her way or even defend my self as she would be on me before I could possibly react., I think little things like this again are worthy of sharing as none of us really knows what might happen next. To ,me these little things keep us sharp and aware of our subjects and what their body language is telling us

As I say mate the chance of that ever happening I think is utterly miniscule, But urban or rural they are still an apex hunter plus any animal can be unpredictable when they have little ones about. .

take care buddy

Thanks Stu, yes I would be very wary of attempting to approach a cub with him there.
That said, the only negative signs I've had from him is a look of "out of the way stupid!" when I'm standing on the steps between him and the side gate.